July 30, 20215 yr 23 minutes ago, Kz! said: Unsurprising. I had COVID prior to being vaccinated and had a sore arm.
July 30, 20215 yr I'm thinking it is important to hold a very clear line regarding the effectiveness of the vaccines. Any sort of wider discussion around the potential risks for vaccinated people is surely going to be a net negative overall as that simply fuels the antivaxxer view. That's based on current data which of course is always subject to change as we learn more. Note: Individuals with risks should of course take all possible precautions.
July 30, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I'm thinking it is important to hold a very clear line regarding the effectiveness of the vaccines. Any sort of wider discussion around the potential risks for vaccinated people is surely going to be a net negative overall as that simply fuels the antivaxxer view. That's based on current data which of course is always subject to change as we learn more. I see that. The problem is the vaccinated tend to be congregated together in the same place, discussing the same issues, talking right past the nonvaccinated as if they don't matter. The nonvaccinated aren't necessarily anti-vax, most are just questioning. They are listening to both the pro- and anti-vaccination crowds, but the vaccinated are discussing the issues right over their heads. Of course the science will change. We observe, and as we learn more, we adjust. Get the vaccine. And wear a mask if the virus is circulating in your area.
July 30, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, toolg said: I see that. The problem is the vaccinated tend to be congregated together in the same place, discussing the same issues, talking right past the nonvaccinated as if they don't matter. The nonvaccinated aren't necessarily anti-vax, most are just questioning. They are listening to both the pro- and anti-vaccination crowds, but the vaccinated are discussing the issues right over their heads. Of course the science will change. We observe, and as we learn more, we adjust. Get the vaccine. And wear a mask if the virus is circulating in your area. No.
July 30, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: I see that. The problem is the vaccinated tend to be congregated together in the same place, discussing the same issues, talking right past the nonvaccinated as if they don't matter. The nonvaccinated aren't necessarily anti-vax, most are just questioning. They are listening to both the pro- and anti-vaccination crowds, but the vaccinated are discussing the issues right over their heads. Of course the science will change. We observe, and as we learn more, we adjust. Get the vaccine. And wear a mask if the virus is circulating in your area. Yes, I understand there are issues with local pockets and in those places I can understand a local official taking a temporary measure if at the same time saying "get the vaccine now as this mandate will only be in effect for four weeks and that's it" or something like that. I think the time is now to make a big push to say "the vaccines work, get them" and to not start bringing back and general measures or recommendations as it only waters down the message. Full court press now with vaccines is the way to go. Add some Vikas style economic incentive/disincentive to spice it up and give people a kick in the wallet as well.
July 30, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, Kz! said: No. Vaccines and masks are the best we've got to mitigate the virus. Otherwise your carelessness and unhealthiness is making yourself and others ill. 7 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I think the time is now to make a big push to say "the vaccines work, get them" and to not start bringing back and general measures or recommendations as it only waters down the message. Yes. But the problem is we are not in control. The virus is. If we need to bring back temporary measures to mitigate spread, like facemasks, then that's what we must do. Nonvaccinated are just going to have to catch up. There is plenty of vaccine in the USA to get vaccinated.
July 30, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: Yes. But the problem is we are not in control. The virus is. If we need to bring back temporary measures to mitigate spread, like facemasks, then that's what we must do. Nonvaccinated are just going to have to catch up. There is plenty of vaccine in the USA to get vaccinated. Masking to protect the unvaccinated is not the way to go imho. It just encourages them to stay unvaccinated.
July 30, 20215 yr Just now, DrPhilly said: Masking to protect the unvaccinated is not the way to go imho. It just encourages them to stay unvaccinated. Masking will protect both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. It's easy to do and it's harmless. Let's stop acting like it's some kind of punishment for not vaccinating.
July 30, 20215 yr 17 minutes ago, toolg said: Masking will protect both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. It's easy to do and it's harmless. Let's stop acting like it's some kind of punishment for not vaccinating. Vaccinated are already protected. Trust the science.
July 30, 20215 yr 20 minutes ago, Toastrel said: We have Gitmo - nice place for the unvaccinated. Who is going to send us there? Your elderly ass?
July 30, 20215 yr 4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Vaccinated are already protected. Trust the science. Yes, vaccination protects against serious illness, which is great! But the vaccinated are still going to spread the virus. As long as it spreads it may mutate, perhaps causing our vaccines to be less effective, requiring us to get even more boosters... Masking helps control the spread. It's safe, it's easy to do, and it's effective. It works if we're all in it together.
July 30, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, toolg said: Yes, vaccination protects against serious illness, which is great! But the vaccinated are still going to spread the virus. As long as it spreads it may mutate, perhaps causing our vaccines to be less effective, requiring us to get even more boosters... Masking helps control the spread. It's safe, it's easy to do, and it's effective. It works if we're all in it together. The only way to stop the spread is for people to get vaccinated. Vaccinated people wearing masks has the side effect of indirectly encouraging the unvaccinated to maintain their position thereby continuing to enable the spread.
July 30, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, toolg said: It's safe, it's easy to do, and it's effective. It works if we're all in it together. You’re right. The vaccine is amazing that way.
July 30, 20215 yr 31 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The only way to stop the spread is for people to get vaccinated. Vaccinated people wearing masks has the side effect of indirectly encouraging the unvaccinated to maintain their position thereby continuing to enable the spread. Unvaccinated people are braindead morons who are likely to remain unvaccinated in any circumstance, and they are the main reason why everyone needs to go back to wearing masks in the first place. If the options are "wear a mask to limit the spread" or "protect unvaccinated people's feelings," I'll choose the former. I know what you're trying to say here, but I don't think keeping our masks off is going to do one iota of convincing unvaccinated morons to give up their incredibly stupid positions if they haven't already. It will just encourage the evolution of the virus.
July 30, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Unvaccinated people are braindead morons who are likely to remain unvaccinated in any circumstance, and they are the main reason why everyone needs to go back to wearing masks in the first place. If the options are "wear a mask to limit the spread" or "protect unvaccinated people's feelings," I'll choose the former. I know what you're trying to say here, but I don't think keeping our masks off is going to do one jota of convincing unvaccinated morons to give up their incredibly stupid positions if they haven't already. It will just encourage the evolution of the virus. I’m talking full court press here. Nothing that gives them anything they can point to and then including other more direct incentives. The longer term risk for spread lies with the unvaccinated and not with maskless and protected vaccinated people.
July 30, 20215 yr 17 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I’m talking full court press here. Nothing that gives them anything they can point to and then including other more direct incentives. The longer term risk for spread lies with the unvaccinated and not with maskless and protected vaccinated people. These people are completely dug in, and the one thing they fear more than anything is being wrong and admitting fault.
July 30, 20215 yr 14 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: These people are completely dug in, and the one thing they fear more than anything is being wrong and admitting fault. Then you'll never stop it until it gets to natural herd immunity. There are only two paths. One is natural herd immunity and the other is vaccine. You're halfway there right now with the vaccine. Put in the incentives and project "vaccine good/safe" until the cows come home. Let Darwin do the rest if that is necessary.
July 30, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Then you'll never stop it until it gets to natural herd immunity. There are only two paths. One is natural herd immunity and the other is vaccine. You're halfway there right now with the vaccine. Put in the incentives and project "vaccine good/safe" until the cows come home. Let Darwin do the rest if that is necessary. I mean, yeah. Except the rest of us are effected by it.
July 30, 20215 yr 4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Then you'll never stop it until it gets to natural herd immunity. There are only two paths. One is natural herd immunity and the other is vaccine. You're halfway there right now with the vaccine. Put in the incentives and project "vaccine good/safe" until the cows come home. Let Darwin do the rest if that is necessary. Sadly, the Darwinian approach results in dead innocents. That seems to be okay with a lot of people.
July 30, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: I mean, yeah. Except the rest of us are effected by it. You're vaccinated and you are safe (with due respect that there are some with special underlying conditions). For some locale it may be a temporary necessity to protect a hospital as I've written about 4x already in here. Otherwise, full focus on the vaccine until such time as the science changes and the numbers tell us something different from what they tell us today.
July 30, 20215 yr uncle joe wants states to give folks $100 for getting the vaccine. so i might get it a couple more time$. 😎
July 30, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Sadly, the Darwinian approach results in dead innocents. That seems to be okay with a lot of people. Not ok but yes it is true some additional innocents would die as a result. No goal for any policy is ever zero. There is always collateral damage on some level. Just as JohnSnow stated yesterday, I have full respect and compassion for each individual case but we can't cover everything for everyone in every scenario.
July 30, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: Not ok but yes it is true some additional innocents would die as a result. No goal for any policy is ever zero. There is always collateral damage on some level. Just as JohnSnow stated yesterday, I have full respect and compassion for each individual case but we can't cover everything for everyone in every scenario. Sure, so we let people die because we don't want to inconvenience people. Sure, sound policy.
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