1 hour ago, John_C said:

I slept on it.  Could not believe they chose Reagor with Jefferson on the board.  It seems like an even worse decision this morning.  However, this is a team that just took JJAW over Metcalf.  I will expect whoever they take to be the bust of the draft as that is generally the case with their WR picks.

Reagor is small, drops a lot of passes, had a horrible catch rate at TCU and ran a 4.47 at the combine and had one of the worst 3-cone times.  Not sure how that equates to separation at the next level.  Allegedly his "play speed” is much faster.  Maybe that’s true.  

It just seems like another faulty decision, where the smart teams would just take the better overall prospect.  I see Jefferson as a cant miss starter, an 80 catch type guy with no questions, who is clutch and catches everything.  Reagor to me has massive bust risk, but has upside potential if you think he can be Tyreek Hill.  

I hope Reagor is awesome and they were right here, but the overwhelming likelihood to me is they just F’d this up big time.  I’m not even criticizing them for not trading up for Lamb, as I don’t know what the cost was and it may very well have been too much.  This is all about Reagor > Jefferson.  If they wanted Reagor so much I do believe they could have easily traded back.

1 - We don't know that they could have - was there an offer on the table?

2 - If there was an offer, how far back would they have had to move to make the deal?  Pats moved back from 23, and moved completely out of the first round.  No way Reagor would have been on the board at 37 (where the Pats landed).  49ers eventually moved up to 25, would Reagor have lasted to 31?  Again, I don't think so.  

 

And finally, this is the Monday morning QBing that always happens after the draft.  Trading back is a GREAT option, if you have a bunch of guys equally graded with equal fit... but if there's one guy that stands out, trading back is a dangerous strategy.  We ALL expected a team to leap frog the Eagles and grab the WR that they wanted, and there was a lot of consternation about that... at 21.   If they move back to 26, 27, 28... Who's to say that another team doesn't jump up over them (like the 49ers did at 25) to grab 'their' WR? 

Nah... when you have a glaring need like WR... and 'your guy' is sitting there, you grab him.  You don't get cute and try to outsmart everyone (isn't that the criticism levied at the Eagles and Howie all the time?  Trying to be 'the smartest guy in the room'? ).   

I agree that the risk with Reagor is greater than Jefferson, but I would say that Reagor's style fits this team better.  And that's with my love affair for Justin Jefferson.  Jefferson is a guy that I believe can be a very good WR for a very long time.  Reagor is a guy though that could be the deep threat we've been clamoring for for years.   We can find a guy that fits that Jefferson role later, though at a lower level.  Jefferson is a guy that could come in and play - tomorrow.  Meanwhile, Reagor might be a guy that takes a little to get going, but as a deep threat, he's great insurance for losing Desean.  And unlike the 'highlights' where we see Reagor past the defense and his QB can't throw him a decent ball... he now has Carson Wentz throwing that ball to him.  I'll trust that.

 

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

They got their sixth rated player at 17. We can make our jokes, but that’s a win for them. Cobb played a lot of slot snaps and they had nothing at third receiver. It actually was a need for them. Now Cooper can play the slot with Lamb at X in 11. 

yep, it's a huge win for Dallas.  They love their slot WR and they always do damage with them.  Remember how happy we were to draft a 2nd string tight end to keep him away from the Cowboys.  Jerry just did that to us at our biggest need with the best WR in the draft.  Not a good feeling.  There is no way to sugar coat it by saying Dallas ignored other needs.

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

This analysis is junk man.  You're 2nd day picks SHOULD be depth and contributors.  The Eagles have just sucked at getting those players.  2nd and 3rd round picks should never be on the PS.  

7th rounders sure but day 2 draft picks are the 2nd and 3rd round.  The Eagles need to start hitting on those players.

I am going to assume that he is using the old convention where Day 1 was rounds 1-3 and Day 2 was rounds 4-7.

 

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

This analysis is junk man.  You're 2nd day picks SHOULD be depth and contributors.  The Eagles have just sucked at getting those players.  2nd and 3rd round picks should never be on the PS.  

7th rounders sure but day 2 draft picks are the 2nd and 3rd round.  The Eagles need to start hitting on those players.

I think AF is speaking from the old set up — day 1 is the first three rounds and day 2 is rounds 4-7. 

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

I am going to assume that he is using the old convention where Day 1 was rounds 1-3 and Day 2 was rounds 4-7.

 

You’re fast. 

2 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

I assume he meant the "old" day 2 - rounds 4-7.  Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

You’re faster. 

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

yep, it's a huge win for Dallas.  They love their slot WR and they always do damage with them.  Remember how happy we were to draft a 2nd string tight end to keep him away from the Cowboys.  Jerry just did that to us at our biggest need with the best WR in the draft.  Not a good feeling.  There is no way to sugar coat it by saying Dallas ignored other needs.

great example, and look at how underutilized Goedert has been

Case in point.  There's only one football, and they're going to need to give the ball to Zeke to win. 

It's a marginal upgrade for them

4 hours ago, Green Dog said:

Not worried about it at all.  When you can line up Sanders, Scott, Jackson, Reagor in the red zone, the TE's are your size.  Alshon when he plays is your size.  But you can do so much more with playcalling, motion, bootlegs, etc.

Red Zone is going to be fun this year.  And then what if we add a guy like Fournette?

 

If they decide to go with Hamler, with all the speed on offense, I would assume we would have a lot less plays in the redzone since we will be either going deep a lot more or a few of those guys will be taking it to the house from time to time.  These "short" guys problem only arise when we are at the 10 yard line or inside of that.  Either way, I don't think it would be a problem between Reagor's leaping ablity, the total speed with the receivers, the height of Goedert/Ertz, and the versatility of Sanders.

3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Value-wise, it's a great pick for them

Team-building wise, it might be a penny wise and a pound foolish.  They still have to replace Travis Frederick and half of their defense.  I just see this as a marginal upgrade for them

They were going to get a good prospect one way or another, just like we were.  They went with a shiny toy over a real need.  We'll see how it works out tonight, because now theyre absolutely drafting for need.

So are we and everyone else for the most part. I don’t mean that in a snarky way. That’s just reality. 

If I were a Cowboys fan I wouldn’t be upset. Good player, great value, reasonable short term and very good long term fit/need.

 

Doesn’t take away that the Eagles got better yesterday.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I think AF is speaking from the old set up — day 1 is the first three rounds and day 2 is rounds 4-7. 

You’re fast. 

You’re faster. 

OK that makes sense.  The old format that I miss 😞  

 

Reagor joins Wentz, Bunkley, Mcnabb, Lane, Corey Simon, Maclin, Cox, and Dillard as the only first picks of the Eagles that I have liked since 1999.

They've had some good ones who aren’t on that list and there are some on the list who disappointed.  But I think it’s a pretty decent group.   I didn’t actively want Mcnabb, Simon, or Dillard, but I think it was reasonable to see the reason they took them.

1 hour ago, ForestSpirit said:

Who's Reagor's floor comparison in your mind?  

Stills and Ginn had their best years with great/good QBs in Brees and Cam respectively.  Hoping Carson can make him all the more better--especially coming from some lackluster qb play in college.  Also not as down on him because he was linked to the chiefs and saints-- sound offensive scouting teams.  

Some "worst-case" scenarios: Tavon Austin, Marquise Goodwin, Philip Dorsett.

Those players are still in the league. Why? Elite speed is hard to find. It's more valuable than a big-body WR.

So how criminal would it be if we didn't draft another WR today?

Disclaimer: assuming the picks we make are sensible otherwise.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

If they both hit, Reagor supplies the more important impact: Big plays and altering how defenses play. 

I think there’s a really good chance that Jefferson is the more productive player in terms of catches and yards based on how he will be deployed. What Reagor can do, however, is more valuable than counting stats.

Everyone knows that Jefferson was 'my guy' at 21.  But, the fit for Reagor is far more seamless.  I was thinking about Jefferson for the long haul, rather than a 2020 solution.  Reagor can have a huge impact, potentially, without getting the ball thrown his way.  And if we see Ertz, Goedert and even Ward, lighting it up in the middle of the field when Reagor is out there... then he's doing his job.   So, it won't be about the numbers, what it will come down to is the spacing we see.  If we see spacing on the field, and Wentz doesn't have to be dropping dimes constantly to get a completion, then its all good.  

 

So, I look forward to the All-22 breakdowns... and I really want to see wide-open receivers next year.

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

great example, and look at how underutilized Goedert has been

Case in point.  There's only one football, and they're going to need to give the ball to Zeke to win. 

It's a marginal upgrade for them

I don’t think they need to feed Zeke to be successful, but that’s a different argument, and not one I want to have on an Eagles board, lol. 

14 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Alright...we avoided my big pitfall, Jefferson, in round 1 by the skin of our teeth.

Here is my round 2 do not draft list:

1.  Yetur Gross-Matos.  If Justin Jefferson is Jordan Matthews, then YGM is Victor Abiamiri or Vinny Curry.  He’s going to be the shinny object in round 2.  So many projected him as a first round pick.  Wait...DE is a premium position, a position of need.  He was a projected first round pick.  He’s from PSU.  We drafted his inferior line mate last year.  Sounds like a match made in heaven?  Right?  
 

Wrong.  He’s great value on paper.  But he fell out of round 1 because teams are concerned he won’t be an explosive edge rusher.  We don’t need to invest in a Victor Abiamiri / Vinny Curry decent DE.  We need a stud.  If he can’t be an explosive edge guy worthy of round 1, then don’t bother in round 2.  
 

2.  Jefferson. Just copy/paste everything I said about Justin Jefferson in round 1.  We don’t need his less athletic namesake before round 4.  
 

Both of these guys figure to be very tempting to Howie in round 2.  Stay the heck away.

 

Strongly disagree on Gross-Matos.  To me it's between Higgins, Mims, Shenault, Gross-Matos, and Gay Jr.  

3 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

If they decide to go with Hamler, with all the speed on offense, I would assume we would have a lot less plays in the redzone since we will be either going deep a lot more or a few of those guys will be taking it to the house from time to time.  These "short" guys problem only arise when we are at the 10 yard line or inside of that.  Either way, I don't think it would be a problem between Reagor's leaping ablity, the total speed with the receivers, the height of Goedert/Ertz, and the versatility of Sanders.

Ertz and Goedert are 6’5” and our entire offense passes through them.  JJAW is 6’3” and was drafted to make plays over DBs.  2...not one...short burners restores a little balance.  We are still unbalanced and slow even with Reagor.  Need one more, maybe 2 more.  What would AR do?

5 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not you but just pointing out lamb played in the same crappy defensive conference. So when people go on and say reagor took advantage of a bad conference the same could be said with lamb playing in the same bad Defensive conference. I’d also add a school that is head and shoulders better than everyone in that conference nearly every year

And played with two of the last three #1 overall picks, and a QB likely to be picked pretty early today.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

This is where ESP shines. 

Why not buck the trend.... give him 1?

 

 

ESP is always focusing on the most important things.

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

So how criminal would it be if we didn't draft another WR today?

Disclaimer: assuming the picks we make are sensible otherwise.

If we get a really, really good safety AND LB prospect who are huge values....I could stomach it.  Otherwise, we need another WR.

Then I actually might want to consider a trade for Curtis Samuel.   
 

 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Ertz and Goedert are 6’5” and our entire offense passes through them.  JJAW is 6’3” and was drafted to make plays over DBs.  2...not one...short burners restores a little balance.  We are still unbalanced and slow even with Reagor.  Need one more, maybe 2 more.  What would AR do?

Reagor also provides huge value in the RZ.  42" vertical helps him play "above the rim"  He made plenty of catches over bigger corners.  He goes up and gets it.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Did you see his glasses last night?   The dude tries way too hard to be relevant with current trends.  Is he a hipster, a prep, a sneaker head? no one knows, he's just a tool

everyone knows he's just a tool.

Tommy's draft preview is now up, always a good read

http://igglesblitz.com/2020/04/2020-eagles-draft-preview/

Btw, he's nearly as high on LB Logan Wilson as I am!

'....Wilson can run, cover and tackle. He would give the Eagles a strong presence in the middle of the defense. Wilson is versatile enough to play any of the LB spots. He is a good athlete and playmaker. He’s what this defense needs in the middle of the field.'

Spoiler

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

1 - We don't know that they could have - was there an offer on the table?

2 - If there was an offer, how far back would they have had to move to make the deal?  Pats moved back from 23, and moved completely out of the first round.  No way Reagor would have been on the board at 37 (where the Pats landed).  49ers eventually moved up to 25, would Reagor have lasted to 31?  Again, I don't think so.  

 

And finally, this is the Monday morning QBing that always happens after the draft.  Trading back is a GREAT option, if you have a bunch of guys equally graded with equal fit... but if there's one guy that stands out, trading back is a dangerous strategy.  We ALL expected a team to leap frog the Eagles and grab the WR that they wanted, and there was a lot of consternation about that... at 21.   If they move back to 26, 27, 28... Who's to say that another team doesn't jump up over them (like the 49ers did at 25) to grab 'their' WR? 

Nah... when you have a glaring need like WR... and 'your guy' is sitting there, you grab him.  You don't get cute and try to outsmart everyone (isn't that the criticism levied at the Eagles and Howie all the time?  Trying to be 'the smartest guy in the room'? ).   

I agree that the risk with Reagor is greater than Jefferson, but I would say that Reagor's style fits this team better.  And that's with my love affair for Justin Jefferson.  Jefferson is a guy that I believe can be a very good WR for a very long time.  Reagor is a guy though that could be the deep threat we've been clamoring for for years.   We can find a guy that fits that Jefferson role later, though at a lower level.  Jefferson is a guy that could come in and play - tomorrow.  Meanwhile, Reagor might be a guy that takes a little to get going, but as a deep threat, he's great insurance for losing Desean.  And unlike the 'highlights' where we see Reagor past the defense and his QB can't throw him a decent ball... he now has Carson Wentz throwing that ball to him.  I'll trust that.

 

I know you aren't criticizing the "Monday morning quarterbacking after the draft" because what the hell are we even doing here if we can't discuss opinions?  I'm just giving my take on it, which I acknowledge is different than the majority here and I hope the majority is correct.

It sounds like we view Jefferson similarly.  We obviously can't know what trade option was available or offered as far as moving back.  I hope for the positive with reagor, there just seems to be a number of risk factors that I am sure other teams, and teams that actually know how to evaluate WRs, must have seen as well.   He very well may have been available late 1st or early 2nd, or even mid 2nd, we will never know.  I honestly thought he was a guy that due to his risks may have been in play at 53.  This is a guy with major issues catching the ball that did not test well athletically, certainly not close to what was expected.

In theory, I completely agree that the optimistic concept of reagor fits the Birds better.  I hope it is the case.  If a good WR evaluating team drafted him I'd have more confidence.  The reality is I'm going to be extremely skeptical of any WR the Birds take, given the track record, which is also why I think they need to take another with the next pick.  Two chances to find someone that can actually play....

8 hours ago, FTheCowboys said:

He's 100% right. about the last sentence. Based on what they passed on in Lamb, if he's what people expect, Reagor needs to be like our own Tyreek Hill for this to be a successful pick, because it always has to be evaluated with the context of what they passed on to make it, not just in a vacuum.

Whether one loves, hates, or is neutral on the Reagor pick, what you said will definitely prove to be correct.

I think it also will matter who the Eagles draft with #53 or #103.   If those guys turn out to be busts, then fans will always question Howie's desire to keep those picks instead of sacrificing them for Lamb (assuming Lamb does in fact turn out to be a stud).

 

 

Kaplan and Mosher said on their latest pod that Reagor's drops were coming on screens, not worried about it, heck sometimes a drop is the right play on a screen