I apologize for so many negative posts this morning, I'm still just in shell shock this is what the Eagles did.  Want to feel even worse? Look at those teams who are killing it.  The Ravens are so good at drafting...

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/nfl-draft-day-2-best-classes

I really like Davion Taylor. Even if he busts, it's the right process. You're taking a high-character, highly explosive player at a position of need. The reason for his lack of production is understandable (playing time, due to religious reasons). Some players are worth taking flyers on: Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, etc. due to traits.

That said, during this offer down makes me upset given that we already used a luxury pick on a QB.

 

Just now, bpac55 said:

I apologize for so many negative posts this morning, I'm still just in shell shock this is what the Eagles did.  Want to feel even worse? Look at those teams who are killing it.  The Ravens are so good at drafting...

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/nfl-draft-day-2-best-classes

I can tell you without looking that Dallas so far has had a very good draft.

So... the Jalen Hirts pick was real.  Was hoping it was a bad dream.  

 

I am close to preferring that the picks just be selected by fans here, chosen by lottery.  Sure, it would turn out to be a camel with no clear direction, or unifying theme... but it couldn't be worse than what we saw yesterday.

 

I like Jalen Hurts, the person.  But Jalen Hurts the football player doesn't make sense in round 3 for this roster, let alone Round 2.  In Round 4... its starts to make sense.  At 53, they needed to bring in a talent that didnt need development.  Lots of options.  I wasn't a huge Denzel Mims fan, but that makes sense.  Yes, it makes you call into question last years pick in Round2, but that's a helluva lot better move than calling into question your franchise QB, who is only 27.  

 

Folks around here now after a draft I will literally tie myself in knots to try to find the rationale of a stupid pick...   today, I've got nothing.

 

I'm going to enjoy some time working in my garden today.  I dont even want to think about this any more.  This was the one sporting event in the midst of all the lockdown.  One event in the last 6 weeks, and one event for the foreseeable future and the Eagles have taken any joy out of it.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

I really like Davion Taylor. Even if he busts, it's the right process. You're taking a high-character, highly explosive player at a position of need. The reason for his lack of production is understandable (playing time, due to religious reasons). Some players are worth taking flyers on: Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, etc. due to traits.

That said, during this offer down makes me upset given that we already used a luxury pick on a QB.

 

That's a crazy amount of picks for 105.  

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So... the Jalen Hirts pick was real.  Was hoping it was a bad dream.  

 

I am close to preferring that the picks just be selected by fans here, chosen by lottery.  Sure, it would turn out to be a camel with no clear direction, or unifying theme... but it couldn't be worse than what we saw yesterday.

 

I like Jalen Hurts, the person.  But Jalen Hurts the football player doesn't make sense in round 3 for this roster, let alone Round 2.  Iij n Round 4... its starts to make sense.  At 53, they needed to bring in a talent that didnt need development.  Lots of options.  I wasn't a huge Denzel Mims fan, but that makes sense.  Yes, it makes you call into question last years pick in Round2, but that's a helluva lot better move than calling into question your franchise QB, who is only 27.  

 

Folks around here now after a draft I will literally tie myself in knots to try to find the rationale of a stupid pick...   today, I've got nothing.

 

I'm going to enjoy some time working in my garden today.  I dont even want to think about this any more.  This was the one sporting event in the midst of all the lockdown.  One event in the last 6 weeks, and one event for the foreseeable future and the Eagles have taken any joy out of it.

The 2nd round fell exactly how we wanted to have our pick of an impact WR, Safety, DE, LB.  

The crazy distinction here is that the Eagles want to groom a starter at QB rather than a backup. That’s what is implied with a second round pick no matter how many gadget plays he can be used for. It’s hard to see that use of resources as anything less. 

There are still a lot of good corners and WRs on the board for us to pass on, so that’s exciting. 

WR - Davis, Hightower, Watkins, Johnson, Mooney, DPJ, Gandy-Golden, Davis

CB - Holmes, Robertson (we brought those first two in for in-person visits), Robinson, Hand, Pride, Hall

OL - Not sure. Can’t say that I followed too closely. Adeniji from Kansas sounds good. Same with the San Diego State guys, the Wisconsin and Washington centers, Charles 

DE - Robinson, Anae, Kareem

LB - Dye, Gaither-Davis, Strnad, Bailey

S - Reed, Wallace

RB - Kelley, Perine, Dallas, Benjamin

TE - Hopkins, Bryant, Bryant, Sullivan

11 minutes ago, RLC said:

I really like Davion Taylor. Even if he busts, it's the right process. You're taking a high-character, highly explosive player at a position of need. The reason for his lack of production is understandable (playing time, due to religious reasons). Some players are worth taking flyers on: Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, etc. due to traits.

That said, during this offer down makes me upset given that we already used a luxury pick on a QB.

 

I don’t think taking an incredibly raw off ball LB in round 3 is good process at all. I’m happy we’re adding team speed, but how does Taylor project better than Gaither-Davis? Or Markus Bailey? 

Another thing.  No other quarterbacks were drafted in round 2 or 3.  Are you telling me Hurts HAD to be taken at 53?  Picking him didn't even start a run on the next tier of quarterbacks.  Generally when a pick like this happens the other teams will hop on and say we better get our guy.  NOPE, not one team.  Not only did they take Hurts at 53 it appears they over drafted him.  He wasn't some other teams guy.  They could have traded down, recouped a 3rd rounder or a couple of other picks and still drafted Hurts.  It's bad on so many levels.  I really hope Lurie gets rid of Howie after this year.

Just now, bpac55 said:

Another thing.  No other quarterbacks were drafted in round 2 or 3.  Are you telling me Hurts HAD to be taken at 53?  Picking him didn't even start a run on the next tier of quarterbacks.  Generally when a pick like this happens the other teams will hop on and say we better get our guy.  NOPE, not one team.  Not only did they take Hurts at 53 it appears they over drafted him.  He wasn't some other teams guy.  They could have traded down, recouped a 3rd rounder or a couple of other picks and still drafted Hurts.  It's bad on so many levels.  I really hope Lurie gets rid of Howie after this year.

Most thought there was a steep drop off from Hurts to the next qbs in the draft.

I listened to the Birds With Friends podcast.   I find myself in very much the same place as Zach Berman.  

Namely (paraphrasing some points made in the podcast by all the hosts I agree with, along with some of my own random thoughts added in)...

- I understand and fully support the principle of devoting real resources to having a top #2 QB.    But I have a real problem with the Eagles execution of this principle.   Based on the lack of draft choices in recent years, and the high draft choices used in recent years on guys who have not contributed anything, this was NOT the year to invest a premium pick in backup QB.  

- The Eagles had only 2 Top 85 picks in this draft.   They needed to address one of the other glaring holes on the roster.    That is what would have been showing support to their QB and helping him out.

- Having said that, this move had absolutely nothing with the Eagles questioning Wentz as their top guy.    The Eagles are fully committed to Wentz.  This is an expensive insurance policy that the Eagles believe can be flipped for possibly as much as a 1st round pick in the future.

- This move speaks to the hubris of the organization more than any statement about Wentz.   The "QB Factory" comment is another "Gold Standard" moment.

*********************************************************************************************

- In fairness to the Eagles, it was suggested they crunched the numbers on backup QB picks made outside of the Top 100 and realized how many times these picks barely worked out.   They were truly wasted picks in many cases (i.e. Clayton Thorson).    If the Eagles were going to take the time and effort to groom the new Nick Foles mega-backup they probably came to the conclusion they would need to invest a higher pick.

- Cost control and salary cap was definitely a factor now that Wentz got paid.    Even just renting veteran backup QBs, the guys that can actually win games if needed, can get expensive costing $5+M-$8M per year.

 - As mentioned last night, I really do like Hurts the player and prospect.   The guy is a baller and his teammates have always seemed to love him.   However, as much as I like Hurts, and as much as I can totally see how his skillsets could potentially make him a great backup QB behind Wentz, I am still not convinced the Eagles did the right thing by selecting him.   I think we needed another positional stud that could have been a Day 1 starter (LB, OL, DB, WR).    Again this isn't just about Hurts and the 2020 Draft.   This is about the Eagles lack of draft picks over the last 3-4 years, along with too many bust picks in the Top 125 over the last 3-4 years.

- I much preferred the drafts of the Ravens, Jets, and Chiefs.   Even the Giants and Redskins did a solid job, unlike years in the past.   The rest of the NFC East got better the last 2 nights. 

 

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Another thing.  No other quarterbacks were drafted in round 2 or 3.  Are you telling me Hurts HAD to be taken at 53?  Picking him didn't even start a run on the next tier of quarterbacks.  Generally when a pick like this happens the other teams will hop on and say we better get our guy.  NOPE, not one team.  Not only did they take Hurts at 53 it appears they over drafted him.  He wasn't some other teams guy.  They could have traded down, recouped a 3rd rounder or a couple of other picks and still drafted Hurts.  It's bad on so many levels.  I really hope Lurie gets rid of Howie after this year.

Teams are more particular about QBs than that. As much as I hate the pick, he’s much better than Fromm/Eason. Neither of them are NFL QBs. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

There are still a lot of good corners and WRs on the board for us to pass on, so that’s exciting. 

WR - Davis, Hightower, Watkins, Johnson, Mooney, DPJ, Gandy-Golden

CB - Holmes, Robertson (we brought those first two in for in-person visits), Robinson, Hand, Pride

OL - Not sure. Can’t say that I followed too closely. Adeniji from Kansas sounds good. Same with the San Diego State guys, the Wisconsin and Washington centers

DE - Robinson, Anae, Kareem

LB - Dye, Gaither-Davis, Strnad, Bailey

S - Reed

RB - Kelley, Perine, Dallas, Benjamin

TE - Hopkins, Bryant, Bryant, Sullivan

Having 3 picks in this round is good. IMO, we should be able to find some guys. This is the RD where remaining QBs/OL will go flying off the board.

Reggie Robinson from Tulsa is the guy I want. Super athletic, but needs a year of development despite his high age and small-school status. Can sit behind Jones/Maddox for a year or be a matchup piece against bigger WRs. If we want Bryce Hall instead that would be fine.

Otherwise, just keep taking high-upside swings like AGG, Hand, Wallace, Hightower, etc.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Having 3 picks in this round is good. IMO, we should be able to find some guys. This is the RD where remaining QBs/OL will go flying off the board.

Reggie Robinson from Tulsa is the guy I want. Super athletic, but needs a year of development despite his high age and small-school status. Can sit behind Jones/Maddox for a year or be a matchup piece against bigger WRs. If we want Bryce Hall instead that would be fine.

Otherwise, just keep taking high-upside swings like AGG, Hand, Wallace, Hightower, etc.

I completely forgot to add Hall and Wallace to my list. 

19 minutes ago, Gator 12 said:

My Hurts 2 cents:

Love the player, really like the fit and honestly love the pick. Hurts as the backup QB is fun and him on special packages is fun. He’s got a chance to groom here and be a really good player. I identified this guy as a perfect backup QB early in the process, just always thought a team would give him a chance at starting. 

With that said, where the disconnect is for me is where we picked him. Makes little to no sense in the 2nd round as I’m sure many have stated. This pick in the 4th? Eagles fans are probably ecstatic. I severely doubt Hurts fell that far though. I understand we know the value of a good backup QB but a 2nd round pick on a backup/gimmick player is just bad resource management. Plain and simple.

So yeah love the player and pick. Hate the resource we used to get him. Will watch the careers of Mims, Fulton, Chinn and Willie Gay closely. 

So well stated by you.   Agreed with every word.

Just now, obedt said:

Most thought there was a steep drop off from Hurts to the next qbs in the draft.

Says who?  I saw him ranked middle of the pack.  Quarterbacks I would have drafted over Jalen Hurts:

Jacob Eason

Jake Fromm

Steven Montez

Anthony Gordon

Nate Stanley

Kelly Bryant

5 minutes ago, obedt said:

The crazy distinction here is that the Eagles want to groom a starter at QB rather than a backup. That’s what is implied with a second round pick no matter how many gadget plays he can be used for. It’s hard to see that use of resources as anything less. 

It only makes sense if they can either flip him later for premium assets, or if Wentz needs to be replaced.   If either of these happen, then it's a good pick.  

Like I said last night, this is the pick by which Howie's legacy will be judged.  Because this move absolutely confirms the 'trying to be the smartest guy in the room' criticism.  I normally try to defend Howie in those conversations.  This... nah.  This is them trying to be smarter than the rest of the NFL.  So either they are... or they very much aren't.

 

Carson needed weapons.  The defense needs help.  Supposedly they were fans of Sudfeld as a backup.  Yet, he was inactive for the playoff game.  That's a game where no matter what condition your QB is in, having 3 available makes sense if there are 3 on the roster.  And yet, they didn't activate him.  And now they brought him back for another year... and now they went a different way in Round 2.  Round 2!  Ugh... I'm sick.

you know if the eagles had some success with their higher drafted longshots, id be more apt to give them some leeway on how they draft. But it never seems to work out in their favor when they take guys like Watkins, Sidney Jones, etc....   

They either nail the top picks or they outsmart themselves. Meaning when they take guys everyone had rated high, they do pretty well, Wentz, Cox, Ertz, Goedert, Sanders. Its when they try to get cute and outsmart everyone based on potential when they fail.

what is weird is that they dont recognize this weakness. They could easily control their gamblng habits and just stick with the safe productive players.

This draft has 2 long shots already drafted at the top, when there were safe productive, come in and produce for you right away players in areas we need help. So even if Reagor was the best wr in this draft, this draft will still be pretty much a bust.

Now they could get lucky and get 3 starters in the 4th rd today, but based on their wanting "value" my guess is if we are lucky one player from eagles draft today sees playing time.

 

so 2 possible players from this draft who play this year.... yay us.  lol

This is really bad, guys.  It may be understated as the tendency is to give a large "benefit of the doubt” cushion during and after any draft.  This one is not defensible for a multitude of reasons, and indicates a change needs to be made.

The plane is going down.  I just hope Lurie realizes it in time, grabs Carson and everyone he can, and gets to the parachutes.  The trajectory here with this decision making is straight down.

19 minutes ago, RLC said:

I really like Davion Taylor. Even if he busts, it's the right process. You're taking a high-character, highly explosive player at a position of need. The reason for his lack of production is understandable (playing time, due to religious reasons). Some players are worth taking flyers on: Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, etc. due to traits.

That said, during this offer down makes me upset given that we already used a luxury pick on a QB.

 

Agreed.  I liked Taylor as well, and he was one of the premier athletes I hoped the Eagles would draft.    But in Round 4 preferably.

The problem with Taylor at #103, even with his super high ceiling, he is a bit of a project.     Willie Gay or Logan Wilson at #53, followed by Taylor at #103 would have been the right kind of saturation drafting at LBer in my view.    A Day 1 starter, with another guy who has the ability to be a premier starter by Year 2 or 3.

So the Eagles have now spent #53 and #103 on great athletes, high character guys with super high ceilings, but who will struggle to get significant playing time as rookies.   

As PurpleFiggy mentioned in a recent post, there seems to be some contradiction between the Free Agency  approach compared to the Draft approach.

 

15 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I listened to the Birds With Friends podcast.   I find myself in very much the same place as Zach Berman.  

Namely (paraphrasing some points made in the podcast by all the hosts I agree with, along with some of my own random thoughts added in)...

- I understand and fully support the principle of devoting real resources to having a top #2 QB.    But I have a real problem with the Eagles execution of this principle.   Based on the lack of draft choices in recent years, and the high draft choices used in recent years on guys who have not contributed anything, this was NOT the year to invest a premium pick in backup QB.  

- The Eagles had only 2 Top 85 picks in this draft.   They needed to address one of the other glaring holes on the roster.    That is what would have been showing support to their QB and helping him out.

- Having said that, this move had absolutely nothing with the Eagles questioning Wentz as their top guy.    The Eagles are fully committed to Wentz.  This is an expensive insurance policy that the Eagles believe can be flipped for possibly as much as a 1st round pick in the future.

- This move speaks to the hubris of the organization more than any statement about Wentz.   The "QB Factory" comment is another "Gold Standard" moment.

*********************************************************************************************

- In fairness to the Eagles, it was suggested they crunched the numbers on backup QB picks made outside of the Top 100 and realized how many times these picks barely worked out.   They were truly wasted picks in many cases (i.e. Clayton Thorson).    If the Eagles were going to take the time and effort to groom the new Nick Foles mega-backup they probably came to the conclusion they would need to invest a higher pick.

- Cost control and salary cap was definitely a factor now that Wentz got paid.    Even just renting veteran backup QBs, the guys that can actually win games if needed, can get expensive costing $5+M-$8M per year.

 - As mentioned last night, I really do like Hurts the player and prospect.   The guy is a baller and his teammates have always seemed to love him.   However, as much as I like Hurts, and as much as I can totally see how his skillsets could potentially make him a great backup QB behind Wentz, I am still not convinced the Eagles did the right thing by selecting him.   I think we needed another positional stud that could have been a Day 1 starter (LB, OL, DB, WR).    Again this isn't just about Hurts and the 2020 Draft.   This is about the Eagles lack of draft picks over the last 3-4 years, along with too many bust picks in the Top 125 over the last 3-4 years.

- I much preferred the drafts of the Ravens, Jets, and Chiefs.   Even the Giants and Redskins did a solid job, unlike years in the past.   The rest of the NFC East got better the last 2 nights. 

 

this is a great articulation of what I'm feeling as well.  Not questioning the philosophy of valuing the backup QB highly.  Not questioning developing guys and flipping them later for greater value.  Not questioning Hurts specifically as a guy to fill that need.

But absolutely don't agree with doing that in the second round of this draft, especially considering the lack of hits the past few drafts, the holes that remain, the other options that were sitting there, and where our QB is in his career (if he were 6 years older, maybe this makes more sense).

It's the same as I felt with trading up for Lamb - those 2nd and 3rd round picks were WAY too valuable for this team to spend them moving up, no matter how much you loved Lamb.  I view that as exactly the same kind of "luxury we can't afford" move that picking Hurts in round 2 presents.

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think taking an incredibly raw off ball LB in round 3 is good process at all. I’m happy we’re adding team speed, but how does Taylor project better than Gaither-Davis? Or Markus Bailey? 

He's faster than both.  And I guess, it could be argued he's got more potential.  Markus Bailey was one of my favorites, but I guess he's more like TJ Edwards.  Not overly fast, but instinctual.

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It only makes sense if they can either flip him later for premium assets, or if Wentz needs to be replaced.   If either of these happen, then it's a good pick.  

Like I said last night, this is the pick by which Howie's legacy will be judged.  Because this move absolutely confirms the 'trying to be the smartest guy in the room' criticism.  I normally try to defend Howie in those conversations.  This... nah.  This is them trying to be smarter than the rest of the NFL.  So either they are... or they very much aren't.

 

Carson needed weapons.  The defense needs help.  Supposedly they were fans of Sudfeld as a backup.  Yet, he was inactive for the playoff game.  That's a game where no matter what condition your QB is in, having 3 available makes sense if there are 3 on the roster.  And yet, they didn't activate him.  And now they brought him back for another year... and now they went a different way in Round 2.  Round 2!  Ugh... I'm sick.

I think you take that risk with a 4th rounder and hope you can turn him into something bigger later.  If you hit, great.  If not, it isn't that big of a deal.  You are just buying a lottery ticket in that scenario.

But to gamble with a 2nd round pick for relatively minimal gain down the road a few years when you can barely pay your mortgage today?