1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Spoiler for the 2020 season.

Hurts plays and looks good against 4th stringers. Calls come into sports radio that he should be the starter.

Hurts comes in for some whacky plays. Carson gives some veiled shots in his PC about wanting to get into more of a rhythm during games.

Doug during a PC, probably end of the year, uses a poor choice of words and says something stupid, full on QB controversy to enter the offseason. 
 

Fin

 Basically this. Especially the part about Doug saying something stupid. Brilliant head coach - dumb speaker.

1 minute ago, QBhunter58 said:

lets not forget, Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields

BTW speaking of next year give me Jaylen Waddle

Teams will have to be high to take them though...

heres the thing about WR. We only got 1 immediate starter.

But who we can get in round 3 and hope becomes another starter isnt going to be nearly as good as a round 1 or 2 guy in next years class. Its better than this one. 

5 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

They look completely foolish. I am more pissed off about it today than I was last night.

To me, drafting him doesn't make them look foolish,  but branding themselves as QB savants and a "QB factory" is what makes them look foolish.  Carson has improved, but he began with immense, inherent talent and the goal is not to get in his way.  A savant and factory should be able to take guys like Sudfeld, Thorson, Lauletta and making them into viable QBs that are a game day contributor and/or tradeable commodity.  The Eagles have been abject failures in this regard, so it is the pinnacle of ignorance and arrogance to say their strength is doing so.  It is clearly a weakness.

28 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I tend to think he is a one read and tuck it and see that as a difficulty in read progression.  We will see.

I think for a team that really likes to run RPOs (2017 became very heavily RPO with Foles in the game), I think a one read QB is an ok option at backup QB.  And having that backup QB be able to read and keep it much more frequently adds an additional wrinkle that the Eagles could incorporate on the fly much more easily than an NFL defense could adjust to it.  The NFL defense would need to stick to assignment football, stick to your responsibility, etc.  But, with the read and keep option, in addition to making that one defender basically always have to be in a lose-lose situation... it can work for the short-term.  Just gotta hope that any injury to Wentz wouldn't be an issue for more than a couple weeks.  I don't see Hurts as a guy that can get hot throwing the ball like Foles has.  Foles is very inconsistent and really has been over his career.  But, when he gets hot, when he starts feeling it... He's as deadly a passer as there is in the NFL.  We saw it down the stretch of 2017.  The Vikings game and the Super Bowl, I don't know that a QB has had a better 8 quarters of football consecutively in a bigger spot in the history of the NFL.  He was that good.  But, then the start of 2018 came, and we saw the other side of Nick, again.

 

 

Anyway... with a $30M QB, having a $1M backup is the only answer, I guess.  So, you find the one that you can trust both to be a team guy first, and to do what you want him to be able to do and then you go from there.    

 

And in the back of my mind... I think having him in the backfield with Wentz in the red zone is a very intriguing possibility.  The question is:  Do you use him like a RB to keep defenses honest?  Does he put his head down and run like a power back if he takes the hand off?  What does that look like?   It seems interesting... not sure I like it yet, but it is intriguing.

6 minutes ago, Thrive said:

This is probably the best argument for Hurts that I’ve seen and makes it make way more sense.

Paying a good NFL Backup is way more expensive than drafting your own good NFL Backup in the 2nd round. You lose the opportunity cost of the high pick but you gain in developing what you consider a very talented player for cheap.

You are basically saying you don’t value draft picks which, based on our recent success and abjectly poor drafting drafting skills, is not completely unreasonable.

Football is a numbers game. On the field and in the paychecks. If you need insurance in the 2nd round for 137 million dollar contract at what point would you might start thinking you may want to allocate that money elsewhere especially if that cheaper option is out there making plays and moving the ball? Food for thought. 

35 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I said last night this was a stupid pick because typically you look for a starter in the second.   After sobering up (hey I scored TP, Paper Towels, wine and most importantly Respado yesterday), I have tried to think about the pick analytically.  Yes Carson hasn’t finished a season in three years.  That goes into the analysis.  But also look around the league at teams that had their starting QB miss time over the last few years.   It wasn’t just the Eagles.   NO without Bridgewater when Brees went down?  Toast.  Wasteam was leading the division when Smith went down.  Luck calls it quits and look at the impact on Indy and they were luckier than wasteam that is still paying a boatload on contract guarantees.  I could go on, but that paints the analysis.   The Eagles had to negotiate Sudfeld back in the building but he is not a long term solution.  I suspect they may have talked to some of the free agent QBs and realized the cost is high.   I think they also looked at the flop rate of late round QBs.  Lauletta, a fourth for the giants sat untouched all last season on our PS.   Thorson sat and sits on Dallas’ PS untouched.  Heck Sudfeld was a wasteam late rounder.  With the Hurts pick, he has to beat out the cheaper Lauletta to make the team.  

Now I am not a huge Hurts fan.  Reality is he took two different programs into the top ten.  Loaded programs, to be sure, but he did improve each year.   He can throw and he can run.   I tend to think he is a one read and tuck it and see that as a difficulty in read progression.  We will see.

i hated the Howie presser and thought he did an awful job of explaining but I get it.  Don’t bruise Wentz into thinking the team doesn’t rely on him or think he is Bradford fragile.   Truth is, the knock on Wentz coming out of college was his history of injury.  That said, let’s not forget the injuries in Howe’s experience. Foles twice here, Bradford, Vicks and Carson.  All got injured.   Last year, Foles got hurt and traded.  I am sure that Howie’s team of data analysts can tell you the probability a starter will miss time in the next four years and also take that to a Wentz level.   We all hope Hurts never sees the field in place of Wentz over the next four years but statistically it is unlikely.   Backup QB may be the most important backup position there is. Given the choice of Hurts versus Sudfeld, I think we all would take Hurts.

If you want a quality QB it will cost either draft capital or dollars. Eagles are not in position for the latter. I was targeting Stanley in the late fourth.  Hurts is a lot more accurate of a passer.  Given Eason is still available, I would have taken him in the fourth but he may not fall that far. Not a fan of Fromm.

I like what Taylor said about having two people on the field that can throw the ball.  Hurts is better at that than Ward but if Greg is our slot or our fourth WR, that and Hurts creates wrinkles that other teams have to deal with especially if Reagor and DJax are playing outside.  

Still disappointed Howie didn’t get me my S yesterday but I like Taylor and WIL was more of an immediate need.  

There are a bunch of SS available today.   There is quality at CB in the fourth too.  I would like to see an OT drafted.  Probably another WR too.  Same with LB. Maybe a TE.  BPA.  Keep me guessing Howie.   

New Orleans won every game with that stiff Bridgewater starting.

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

When teams begin to realize Lawrence isnt a very accurate passer, the value of Hurts with a year of NFL experience drastically increases. 

Career	Clemson					527	804	65.5	6945	8.6	9.6	66	12	162.2
*2018	Clemson	ACC	FR	QB	15	259	397	65.2	3280	8.3	9.3	30	4	157.6
*2019	Clemson	ACC	SO	QB	15	268	407	65.8	3665	9.0	9.9	36	8	166.7

 

*2016	Alabama	SEC	FR	QB	15	240	382	62.8	2780	7.3	7.4	23	9	139.1
*2017	Alabama	SEC	SO	QB	14	154	255	60.4	2081	8.2	9.3	17	1	150.2
*2018	Alabama	SEC	JR	QB	13	51	70	72.9	765	10.9	11.9	8	2	196.7
*2019	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	237	340	69.7	3851	11.3	12.2	32	8	191.2

 

because Jalen is vastly more accurate^^^? What am I missing here? Are we really comparing a top 5 pick to Hurts (who is a heck of a player, but a project)

Just now, MediterraneanDiet said:

To me, drafting him doesn't make them look foolish,  but branding themselves as QB savants and a "QB factory" is what makes them look foolish.  Carson has improved, but he began with immense, inherent talent and the goal is not to get in his way.  A savant and factory should be able to take guys like Sudfeld, Thorson, Lauletta and making them into viable QBs that are a game day contributor and/or tradeable commodity.  The Eagles have been abject failures in this regard, so it is the pinnacle of ignorance and arrogance to say their strength is doing so.  It is clearly a weakness.

I couldnt care less about what they say because it has no bearing on what we see on the field.

Bottom line, they could have had Mims, Epenesa, Fulton, Chinn, Davis, etc and they tooka backup QB / Taysom Hill 2.0

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

All well said by Frank.  I hope this is the beginning of the end of Howie.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-draft-2020-jalen-hurts-10-random-observations

Agreed on all points. Love this from him:

”7. I can’t get past the fact that the Eagles could have had their pick of Baylor WR Denzel Mims, Michigan DE Josh Uche, Florida WR Van Jefferson, Iowa DE A.J. Epenesa and LSU CB Kristian Fulton — guys who could have made an immediate impact — and took a quarterback”

4 minutes ago, In2football said:

Not to defend the pick but it is possible they had back up qb as a signiifcant need. 

Defense

Interior dline is deep and talented.  They are all older.  You need young players ready to take over when Cox, Jackson are gone.  Hargrave is almost 28 already btw.

Edge- they may have felt sweat ostman avery and miller provide as much competition as anyone available.  One recovering from an ACL, one who didn't play a down. Upgrade please

Lb- given how they feel about the position qb2 could easily take priority.  Willie Gay would make this defense and team better in 2020 and beyond.

They have added slay to the cb rotation and currently have maddox, jones, leblanc and douglas on the roster. They may be higher on those players then we are. Maddox and Jones have proved nothing outside.  Slay is 29 going on 30.  Again, like d-line you need young studs with potential being groomed.

Safety has macleod mills parks with maddox as an option. Oh lord.  Where to begin.  Any safety in the top 3 rounds is an instant upgrade to our safeties.

Offense.

Oline - you need a potential swing tackle future center and back up guard for competition. All can still be added with remaining picks Brandon Brooks, 2 huge injuries, Kelce can retire any minute, Semualo...JAG upgrade.  Lane is not getting younger.  Mailata....OK

TE - you are looking for TE 3. Late round udfa or fa are all potential places to add. The only position I'm OK not touching.

Rb- need another but late round udfa or fa will offer options. JK Dobbins went a few picks later.  Still can be addressed today but I'm not sold on Boston Scott

WR- this one concerns me most but they can stilm add a vet or draft another in the 4th. Its fair to assume jackson will miss some time but just as fair to assume he wont miss 15 games. Ward played well in the slot you have added reagor. Not ideal but not a given that its like last year. A vet could still be added.  Too much to add here.  The fact that Denzel Mims was sitting there and they passed is huge.

Qb2 improves ur back up, may provide some interesting packagd plays and provides a cheap QB 2 with the potential to flip in 2 or 3 years for draft picks.  Not worth discussing as we've beaten it to death.

Im not sold but it can atleast make some sense.  It makes ZERO sense.  The Eagles still have an aging roster.

 

Wentz, Goedert, Sanders, Dillard, Barnett (maybe), Sweat, Reagor (TBD), Ward & Scott (by default), Hargrave are the only players under the age of 27 who you have to build around.  You need young guys to pair them with.

 

 

 

Just now, Blazehound said:

Agreed on all points. Love this from him:

”7. I can’t get past the fact that the Eagles could have had their pick of Baylor WR Denzel Mims, Michigan DE Josh Uche, Florida WR Van Jefferson, Iowa DE A.J. Epenesa and LSU CB Kristian Fulton — guys who could have made an immediate impact — and took a quarterback”

It's driving me mad.  I'm still in shock over the arrogance of this front office.   They think they fooled everyone.  They think they have a steal.  They think a guy who hopefully never plays a down for the Eagles is going to make this team better.

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Drafting a better Taysom Hill type in round 2 is dumb.

Drafting a guy hoping to develop him and get some kind of Garoppolo-like return for him in a few years in round 2 is dumb.

Drafting a backup so you can avoid paying the premium that elite QBs cost in round 2 is dumb.

Drafting a backup as an insurance policy for an elite 27 year old QB you just gave a massive contract in round 2 is dumb.

Drafting a guy that has a shot at becoming any and all of those things though?  Not going to pretend I'm in love with the pick but it's not that ridiculous either.  Hurts is a young (21 years old) uber athlete who has improved every season as a passer. Let's give em a shot to see how things work out.

The Taysom Hill argument is the one that drives me the most crazy. Hill plays On average 15 plays a game (kapadia stat). He plays about 6 to 8 them at wide receiver. Unless I’m missing something jalen hurts has never played wide receiver at Oklahoma or Alabama. So you’re not getting that aspect of Tayson hill from Jalen hurts especially not his rookie year.

On top of all the guy who’s closer to being Taysom Hill is sitting on your roster for half the season in Greg Ward. Greg Ward is a former college quarterback. He plays wide receiver know and learn the nuances of playing wide receiver. And last year how many times did I or someone ask for them to start implementing packages/gadget plays using him like taysom hill and they decided not to do it all year. In an offense that needed any type of spark or any type of big play coming from a gadget play. Yet they weekly refuse to do it. But now it’s super important to do  

 

15 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

I can see the reasoning behind some of this move money wise and valuing the position wise. Some of yall have made me slightly more optimistic, but i still dont like the pick. I really feel like we could have waited until round 4 (or our comp pick) and grabbed a guy like Hurts or Fromm. Or get a talent like Eason... any of those guys have the skill to win NFL games in the clutch, and 2 of them have proven to be reliable winners and quality locker room presences.

Insurance for a starting QB is a veteran presence as a backup. Drafting a quarterback in the second round isn’t that. It’s preparation for an eventual replacement. 

1 minute ago, QBhunter58 said:

Career	Clemson					527	804	65.5	6945	8.6	9.6	66	12	162.2
*2018	Clemson	ACC	FR	QB	15	259	397	65.2	3280	8.3	9.3	30	4	157.6
*2019	Clemson	ACC	SO	QB	15	268	407	65.8	3665	9.0	9.9	36	8	166.7

 

*2016	Alabama	SEC	FR	QB	15	240	382	62.8	2780	7.3	7.4	23	9	139.1
*2017	Alabama	SEC	SO	QB	14	154	255	60.4	2081	8.2	9.3	17	1	150.2
*2018	Alabama	SEC	JR	QB	13	51	70	72.9	765	10.9	11.9	8	2	196.7
*2019	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	237	340	69.7	3851	11.3	12.2	32	8	191.2

 

because Jalen is vastly more accurate^^^? What am I missing here? Are we really comparing a top 5 pick to Hurts (who is a heck of a player, but a project)

no. its not a comparison at all..... thats what youre missing.

The point is- Because the gem of next years class (Lawrence) wont look nearly as shiny when teams really begin to put him under the microscope in the year leading up to his draft. Him as the top passer is not a ringing endorsement of the next QB class. Which means, a modern style QB with a year of NFL development is going to become a very attractive candidate for teams looking for a QB as early as next year. 

Hurts isnt a polished passer by any means, but considering he will see limited snaps and the eagles can really put him in a position to succeed with minimal opportunities to screw up. he has a chance to look incredibly enticing to teams.

7 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

To me, drafting him doesn't make them look foolish,  but branding themselves as QB savants and a "QB factory" is what makes them look foolish.  Carson has improved, but he began with immense, inherent talent and the goal is not to get in his way.  A savant and factory should be able to take guys like Sudfeld, Thorson, Lauletta and making them into viable QBs that are a game day contributor and/or tradeable commodity.  The Eagles have been abject failures in this regard, so it is the pinnacle of ignorance and arrogance to say their strength is doing so.  It is clearly a weakness.

The day they lost Reich and Felippo, they lost the right to call themselves QB developers

31 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I feel sorry for our veterans right now. I mean what on earth are guys like Ertz, Lane, Kelce and Cox thinking? They can't be happy. 

Backing up for a second... 

they might be thinking... if Carson gets hurt again, we might not be dead in the water.  

Lane reached out to Hurts immediately after he was drafted.  Granted, he's got the OU connection, but he didn't hesitate.

 

I might add... these guys all got a ring and a parade because the Eagles did have a plan at backup QB.  They did get to the playoffs in 2018 because they had a plan at backup QB.  And they did see the backup QB come into the game again in the playoffs in 2019.  Hard to really be that upset as a vet that the team is trying to ensure that no season ends when the starting QB gets hurt, especially when the starting QB has gotten hurt at the end of every year over the past 3.  

 

I love Carson, I think he has all the talent in the world.  But, he has gotten hurt, so having a backup plan is essential.  And that means someone that can come in and win.  I'd rather not have to rely on this generation's Koy Detmer because he's a world class placekick holder.

5 hours ago, The guy in France said:

So he’s not ALL IN on Wentz ??? We’ll never know who was behind this but JUST an insurance policy is not the reason, better alternatives cost-benefit wise at least over the next year or 2

I think he’s all in on Wentz he just couldn’t help himself. He saw a QB with a unique skill set and high character and just couldn’t help himself 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The Taysom Hill argument is the one that drives me the most crazy. Hill plays On average 15 plays a game (kapadia stat). He plays about 6 to 8 them at wide receiver. Unless I’m missing something jalen hurts has never played wide receiver at Oklahoma or Alabama. So you’re not getting that aspect of Tayson hill from Jalen hurts especially not his rookie year.

On top of all the guy who’s closer to being Taysom Hill is sitting on your roster for half the season in Greg Ward. Greg Ward is a former college quarterback. He plays wide receiver know and learn the nuances of playing wide receiver. And last year how many times did I or someone ask for them to start implementing packages/gadget plays using him like taysom hill and they decided not to do it all year. In an offense that needed any type of spark or any type of big play coming from a gadget play. Yet they weekly refuse to do it. But now it’s super important to do  

 

Hill never played WR at BYU either.  Not that I think Hurts should play WR here, but still that point is moot. 

35 minutes ago, TEW said:

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I would not have made this move.

But in trying to be open minded, and looking at all of the angles, I can see the logic in  making this move.  

You basta*d.  You made me look at it differently, and now I am defending it!

4 hours ago, BwianWestbwook said:

This, if we have better than McCown in the playoff game last season then we probably win and Wentz is back next week

Still not the best allocation of resources but there is a logic

 

and then what ?

More intrigued over the Taylor pick than the brain fart at 2. Continues my streak of getting 1 pick per year spot on.  What's done is done.

Curious to see what kind of LB they may take today.

Suspect it could end my safety quest forever...............

WR/DB/OL remain significant needs.

If they want more "toys" I will be braced for trade backs out of good positions in the 4th.

Text from a well-know talent evaluator:

"I think the Eagles have been and still are enamored with the idea of being cutting edge in their thinking. It’s why they hired Chip Kelly. In the case of Hurts, I think they are fascinated by the thought of having 2 passers on the field at the same time on enough snaps to produce big explosive plays that could win games. That’s what I think”

14 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

QB picks from 2012 on: Foles, Barkley, Wentz, Clayton Thorson.

QBs on roster at camp: Sanchez, Bradford, Suds, Lauletta, McCown.

Exactly who has this "QB factory" done such a bang up job in developing?

AJ Feeley

33 minutes ago, TEW said:

I think they'll use Hurts at RB sparingly.  He isn't going to be taking the leftover snaps from Sanders.  Maybe he gets 2 or 3 per game.

I'm thinking they'll look to have a very specific package of plays for him.  He's not a backup RB.