51 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Just my opinion as to where the roster stands now.  We get 55 players now.   PS is 12 now correct?

Bold=lock   Green=PS   Orange=on the edge  Red=PUP then IR

QB- Wentz, Hurts, Sudfeld, Lauletta

RB- Sanders, Scott, Holyfield, Warren, Killins   I think a FA like Corey Clement is signed and will be a lock

WR- Jeffrey, DJack, JJAW, Ward, Reagor, Goodwin, Hightower, Watkins, Davis, Burnett, Gibson, Cracraft, Michel, Green

TE- Ertz, Goedert, Perkins, Togiai

T- Johnson, Dillard, Mailata, Prince

G- Brooks, Seumalo, Opeta, Herbig, Pryor, Good-Jones

C- Kelce, Driscoll Render, Juriga

21 locks

DE- Barnett, BG, Ostman, Avery, Sweat, Miller, Hall, Toohill

DT- Cox, Jackson, Hargave, Huggins, Ridgeway, Rush, Hector, WIlliams 

LB- Gerry, Edwards, Riley, Singleton, Brown, Bradley, Taylor, Olson

CB- Slay, Maddox, Jones, Douglas, LeBlanc, Robey-Coleman, Smith, Williams, James, Jacquet, Smith Jr. I'm adding a veteran CB as a lock

S- Mills, McLeod, Parks, Ford, Epps, Wallace, Arnold, Riley

21 locks

ST- Elliot, Johnston, Lovato

3 locks

That's 45 locks.  10 players fighting to make the team.

2 of JJAW, Hightower, Watkins

Either Ostman or Miller (I think edge goes to Ostman

2 OF Ridgeway, Rush, Huggins, Hector

Pick your bowling ball in Holyfield or Warren

I put Driscoll at center

 

Expanded roster at 55. Two more spots on PS.

Just now, BigEFly said:

Expanded roster at 55. Two more spots on PS.

Is it 55 in 2020 or in 2021?

2 minutes ago, JayEcho said:

here's how i think the eagles see the hurts situation playing out.

his first year may very well look a LOT like taysom hill packages.  he will come in, but not really pass.  every redzone or short yardage situation he'll be put into, it'll be a run.  teams are going to get used to seeing this look and start stacking the box against hurts.  doug will STILL run the ball and teams WILL stop us.  i can already see taters complaining "DOUG!!  THEY KNOW YOU ARE RUNNING WITH HURTS!  JUST KEEP WENTZ IN!  HE CAN CONVERT ON F'N THIRD AND SHORT / IN THE REDZONE!".  hurts MAY pass like three times during the season.

year two, same looking packages, but on more of the plays, hurts will pass.  teams stacking the box will now see passes go over the linebackers' heads and conversions with hurts will increase.  teams will start having to play on their heels because with hurts coming in, it won't be a signal that they are running the ball.  it could be either or.  hurts will have more success on his "packages".

year 3, hurts will be running the offense like wentz.  when he comes in, the offense won't change from how carson runs it.  he'll have the whole playbook and teams won't be able to key on any specific tendency when hurts comes in.

at the end...  if we win a super bowl along the way, the birds will have a choice to make.  extend wentz with another monster contract OR continue with hurts.  they could also trade hurts, but who knows about wentz's health down the road that far.  maybe hurts has been forced to play an extended amount of time during one of the years cause of an injury to wentz.  at that point, i think it would be a problem howie would like to have.

p.s. sorry for the long read.

I don’t mind the long read. I tend to do that myself. Lol. 

I don’t know if hurts ever becomes in competition to be the starter Or the eagles get to that crossroads unless wentz sustains another major injury. I think they view it as they can run some Lamar Jackson type stuff with him and have two QBs on the field with time he’s the no. 2 (don’t see day 1 him being that) but I ultimately think by the end of year three they’re going to have to make a decision of trading him to get back picks from someone or they risk at the end of year 4 he’s just gonna walk away because he’s going to want to chance to start somewhere if he pans out. 

 

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Taysom Hill has thrown 13 passes in 2 years.  Banner is right that you don't use a second round pick on that.

Lamar Jackson took over the starting QB role for the Ravens after 9 games.  Even though the Eagles cite the Ravens in 2018 as an example, I doubt they plan to phase Wentz out of the offense after 9 games.  So this model sucks too.  But let's at least look at Jackson's usage through the 9 games in which we was NOT the starting QB, since this was cited by coach and GM for the Wentz/Hurts model.

Per game numbers for Jackson when Flacco started for 9 weeks:

Passing: 1.3 passes, 9.7 yards passing, 1TD (total), 0INT

Rushing: 3.1 att, 15.4 yds, 1 TD (total)

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the Flacco/Jackson model is total BS as well.

They drafted Hurts as Wentz insurance.

Its plain and simple and you're 100% right.

They didnt draft Hurts to be Taysom Hill 2.0.  They didnt draft him to revolutionize the NFL with 2 passers on the field at the same time.  They didnt draft him to develop him and get picks back in 2-3 years.

The Eagles love Wentz but they dont trust him to stay healthy.  That's the only reason they took Hurts so early.

What a weird change of draft philosophy. After years of Barnetts and JJAWs, we get pretty much pure speed or athleticism at almost every pick. I thought we had their preferences pegged with size and production and character. We still seem to covet character but all the sudden speed and athleticism are the common denominator. Complete 180. I like it. I know a certain poster who all the sudden speaks my language who has to love it. But it kinda makes me wonder. Did they learn from their mistakes? Did they realize their philosophy was flawed and went the other way? And if so, that shows they’re not dumb. So then why draft a QB in round two, at the top of his projection with so many needs? Especially given the optics. It really makes me worry about Wentz’s future. How can a team so smart make one pick so seemingly dumb. Unless it wasn’t dumb and it was necessary. But I’m gonna try and not worry about it and be happy with all the speed and options at WR. 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Does Taysom Hill/rookie Lamar for 4 years plus backup QB merit a 2nd round pick?  I say no, not even close.  But it wouldn't be the least we've gotten out of a second round pick in recent years, that's for sure.

Let's look at the bigger picture...

The goal is to win the super bowl, right? Not to get the most production out of a draft pick, but to win rings.

The most important factor to winning the super bowl is the quality of your QB play. It is by far the most important position on the field.

So if you're just trying to win super bowls, then from a team construction point of view the backup QB is one of the most important roster spots on the team.  Probably more important than a lot of starters since the difference in expected wins you would get from the 2nd round pick compared to an average player is so much greater at QB.

 

 

1 minute ago, 315Eagles said:

Its plain and simple and you're 100% right.

They didnt draft Hurts to be Taysom Hill 2.0.  They didnt draft him to revolutionize the NFL with 2 passers on the field at the same time.  They didnt draft him to develop him and get picks back in 2-3 years.

The Eagles love Wentz but they dont trust him to stay healthy.  That's the only reason they took Hurts so early.

Why would Doug even mention Taysom Hill and Lamar Jackson and say he talked to Marty about the Lamar role?

Just now, TEW said:

Let's look at the bigger picture...

The goal is to win the super bowl, right? Not to get the most production out of a draft pick, but to win rings.

The most important factor to winning the super bowl is the quality of your QB play. It is by far the most important position on the field.

So if you're just trying to win super bowls, then from a team construction point of view the backup QB is one of the most important roster spots on the team.  Probably more important than a lot of starters since the difference in expected wins you would get from the 2nd round pick compared to an average player is so much greater at QB.

 

 

Zach Berman talked about Jeffrey lurie’s opinion on back up quarterback on the podcast yesterday. Lurie said to him before the super bowl he has six pillars of things a championship team needs and one of those is back up quarterback. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Why would Doug even mention Taysom Hill and Lamar Jackson and say he talked to Marty about the Lamar role?

You ever heard of a person lying?

People do it all the time.

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

In three years, I suspect he’ll have started some games and the Eagles will hope he played well enough to trade. 

That’s a horrible draft strategy

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

Let's look at the bigger picture...

The goal is to win the super bowl, right? Not to get the most production out of a draft pick, but to win rings.

The most important factor to winning the super bowl is the quality of your QB play. It is by far the most important position on the field.

So if you're just trying to win super bowls, then from a team construction point of view the backup QB is one of the most important roster spots on the team.  Probably more important than a lot of starters since the difference in expected wins you would get from the 2nd round pick compared to an average player is so much greater at QB.

 

 

I get your drift.  I think the main reason, historically, teams do not invest in their backup QB is because they aren't winning a superbowl if their starter goes down for an extended period.  So you might as well stack up your investment into the supporting cast, not the insurance policy.

Of course, the Eagles happen to be one of the most spectacular exceptions of all time to that conventional wisdom.

Hypothetically if ALL these track stars we just just got in the draft and UDFA somehow made the team, who would be the PR and/or KR?

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t mind the long read. I tend to do that myself. Lol. 

I don’t know if hurts ever becomes in competition to be the starter Or the eagles get to that crossroads unless wentz sustains another major injury. I think they view it as they can run some Lamar Jackson type stuff with him and have two QBs on the field with time he’s the no. 2 (don’t see day 1 him being that) but I ultimately think by the end of year three they’re going to have to make a decision of trading him to get back picks from someone or they risk at the end of year 4 he’s just gonna walk away because he’s going to want to chance to start somewhere if he pans out. 

 

i agree, it's just a progression i see of how the eagles use him.  he starts as a taysom hill clone that people expected..  in year two he's actually passing when the box is stacked..  and in year three, he'll be in a position to just run doug's offense like wentz does even though they're bringing him in for his "packages".  there wouldn't be a difference between hurts' packages and the regular offense.  if he's at that point of running the regular offense in year 3, i think the pick would be a success.  especially if we win a super bowl along the way.

if wentz unfortunately sustains a major injury along the way and hurts has to play an extended amount, the birds will have a tough decision to make on whether to extend wentz or hurts.  but i think howie would love to have that problem with that situation.  he'd be able to get something (could be a haul / more than the original second he invested) for either qb, especially with at least a super bowl under each of their belts.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Zach Berman talked about Jeffrey lurie’s opinion on back up quarterback on the podcast yesterday. Lurie said to him before the super bowl he has six pillars of things a championship team needs and one of those is back up quarterback. 

Of the 54 Super Bowl champions in NFL history, how many of them couldn't have done it without their backup QB?

There are a few.  We are one of them.  I wouldn't say it has happened enough to be a top 6 pillar.  

6 minutes ago, TEW said:

Let's look at the bigger picture...

The goal is to win the super bowl, right? Not to get the most production out of a draft pick, but to win rings.

The most important factor to winning the super bowl is the quality of your QB play. It is by far the most important position on the field.

So if you're just trying to win super bowls, then from a team construction point of view the backup QB is one of the most important roster spots on the team.  Probably more important than a lot of starters since the difference in expected wins you would get from the 2nd round pick compared to an average player is so much greater at QB.

 

 

I get it. I’m just not ready to invest a second round pick into a guy who’s ceiling is good backup/below average starter. You’re talking case keenum/Tavaris Jackson level. 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Of the 54 Super Bowl champions in NFL history, how many of them couldn't have done it without their backup QB?

There are a few.  We are one of them.  I wouldn't say it has happened enough to be a top 6 pillar.  

I didn’t say that. I’m just telling you what Jeffrey lurie said to Zach Berman. And it’s been a belief of the theirs since Andy Reid that’s why they’ve always had back ups like Jeff Garcia to Nick Foles to Kevin kolb to Michael Vick to Doug pederson to What they thought they were getting with mike McMahon (although he was terrible). 

i believe there’s been 3-4 teams that have won with a backup. If you include Warner taking over for Trent green after he got hurt his first year might be More. 

37 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.    

I figured as much but your groupings were or have the potential of being spot on.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I didn’t say that. I’m just telling you what Jeffrey lurie said to Zach Berman. And it’s been a belief of the theirs since Andy Reid that’s why they’ve always had back ups like Jeff Garcia to Nick Foles to Kevin kolb to Michael Vick to Doug pederson to What they thought they were getting with mike McMahon (although he was terrible). 

i believe there’s been 3-4 teams that have won with a backup. If you include Warner taking over for Trent green after he got hurt his first year might be More. 

I know it came from Lurie.  

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

I get your drift.  I think the main reason, historically, teams do not invest in their backup QB is because they aren't winning a superbowl if their starter goes down for an extended period.  So you might as well stack up your investment into the supporting cast, not the insurance policy.

Of course, the Eagles happen to be one of the most spectacular exceptions of all time to that conventional wisdom.

It's not just Foles. Garoppolo kept the Pats afloat in 2016 when Brady was suspended and they won the Superbowl. Bridgewater filled in for Beers this past year and helped them win the NFC South. Both those guys cost significant assets the time (either in cap space or draft capital).

All from a comp pick from cutting Sendejonor Fort...

From Spads: He literally used a compensatory draft pick, No. 146 overall, and brought back four selections. Roseman started by trading 146 to Dallas for 164 (fifth round) this year and the fifth-round pick in 2021. Then Roseman traded 164 to Miami for No. 173 and No. 227. Those picks didn't remain in the Eagles' possession for long. Roseman traded both picks to Chicago for picks 196, 200, and 233. To add it all up, pick 146 - originally acquired as a compensatory selection for net losses in the 2019 free-agency period - turned into linebacker Shaun Bradley, wide receiver Quez Watkins, and seventh-round defensive end Casey Toohill. The fourth pick is the fifth-round selection from Dallas next spring. Amazing.

Also from Roseman regarding the comp pick 146 he traded away...

"The reality of it is that who we would've picked at that pick - I think it was 146 maybe - was the same guy that we were looking at when we were picking in the fifth round, so we picked up an additional pick and we kept moving."

29 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I gotta be honest, I don’t have much interest in watching football with two passers on the field at all times. 

I’m all for advancing the game, but that’s a bridge too far. 

Not ready for the XFL double forward pass?  

Of all the speed we have added this weekend, I'm not sure anyone looks faster on tape than this Killins character.  He's truly diminutive and may not amount to much, but you literally cannot see his feet with a standard frame rate.  Every time he crosses the end zone with no one near him, it's at full speed with a head bob like he's trying to break the plane first in the olympic trials.  He does this every time when there is no one within 10 yards.  It's somewhat comical.

Also from Dave...

Finally, the Eagles are not yet finished building the roster. You know that. They have some cap space to sign their own veterans and they are going to keep their eyes open in the buyer's market of free agency. There are still some good players on the streets. 

It's worth noting that Jason Peters still doesn't have a job.  

That tells you what the rest of the NFL thinks of what's left of him.

He may have to retire.