2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

No way Reagor is the heir to Desean at the Z

hightower might be groomed at X

Kinda hard to say who's a what if Alshon and Peanut are healthy.  Both can run the entire route tree and move to any spot on the field.  In the traditional sense you're right though.

3 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Initially a S that is good against the run, really good covering TEs and RBs.  Good at covering the slot and needs some work playing centerfield in some defenses but less so in the Eagles D.  In the three S sets, I expect he switches with McLeod and plays deep while Rodney takes the mid level position.   Interned with Troy Vincent.  Roomed with Dawk Jr.  Won’t start this year absent injury to McLeod, but we will see him on the field

By every account I read on Wallace, he gets worse the farther away he gets from the LOS. 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

Barnett is the easy choice due to age alone and its not as if BGs production hasn’t fallen off 

Graham has been a stalwart of consistency.  I'll hold judgement to see how this off season pans out and if there's an abridged season.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's dive into the future at DE for a second:

Fact 1: There is zero chance Graham and Barnett are allowed to count a total of $28.5m against the cap in 2021.

Assertion 1: I think it is unlikely Graham takes a pay cut substantial enough to make Graham/Barnett a viable option as the starting DE's in 2021.

Possibility 1: Graham may agree to a modest pay cut.  But this would only be enough for the Eagles to side with sentimentality/proven production so that they keep Graham while declining the option of Barnett.

Possibility 2: Graham won't take enough of a pay cut, Barnett stays on his $10.5m option and Graham is gone in 2021.

Possibility 3: Eagles trade for Yannick and extend him.  That means BOTH Graham and Barnett's contracts MUST be off the books for 2021.

 

Reasonable assumption/conclusion 1: The Eagles are going to have one veteran DE with starting experience in 2021.  The other spot will need to be entrusted to the competition between Sweat/Miller/Toohill and a high 2021 draft pick.  

Reasonable assumption/conclusion 2: Expect better than even odds that our 2021 first round pick is a DE.

You don’t believe an extension for Barnett lowering his cap # for 2021 is a possibility? I’d still list it as one, although not necessarily a preferred outcome.

1 minute ago, obedt said:

You don’t believe an extension for Barnett lowering his cap # for 2021 is a possibility? I’d still list it as one, although not necessarily a preferred outcome.

You are right.  Definitely a possibility I neglected.

Just now, eagle45 said:

You are right.  Definitely a possibility I neglected.

I’m disappointed by what Barnett has shown. Think this year is a critical one for him to show growth. He may find out that the market for him will be as a 3rd DE off the bench, and all of your assumptions would still hold

13 minutes ago, RLC said:

LBs/Ss are the core of the ST unit. Our WRs are so small that I don't see any of them being great gunners. Or at least, who is making a tackle in open space?

I think Taylor is a non-factor on defense in 2020. He might be able to start in 2021.

Understood, but I think every active LB would play ST (5?) along with at least 2-3 and 2-3 corners. Avery also played quite a bit. I think we can get by with five LBs on the roster. 

What?

I think Watkins will be released and we keep our fingers crossed he makes it to the PS.

His entire college experience was getting the ball dumped to him underneath and beating the defense in a foot race to the end zone.  I'm glad they drafted him and I'm excited to see our coaches get their hands on him, but I don't think he's going to be roster-able by September.  

 

12 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Of the 54 Super Bowl champions in NFL history, how many of them couldn't have done it without their backup QB?

There are a few.  We are one of them.  I wouldn't say it has happened enough to be a top 6 pillar.  

I understand your general point here. 

The question I have though is how much "different" is the NFL of the last 5-6 years and going forward versus the previous 45+ years of Super Bowl winners?

- Concussion protocols: How many QB's in past decades played thru a dozen+ concussions each year?   I loved Terry Bradshaw and the Steelers growing up, but perhaps he had his share of concussions that went undiagnosed?     QB's are getting yanked a lot quicker these days and staying out of games.   In the past they would have been given smelling salts and asked to go right back out there.

- 17 game season: This is new obviously, but adds to the even more wear and tear during the season at all positions, not just QB

- Expanded Playoffs: One more team added in the NFL playoffs, and one less bye week

 

Again, just thinking this over after the Hurts selection.   Definitely I am doing some "rationalizing" but I also am realizing there are legitimate differences to discuss.   Regardless of whether or not we might have personally made the same pick or not at #53.

gregauman

 

Saints' QB/cap situation is so strange. Brees making $25 million this year, cap hit of $22 million next year if he retires, and now $21 million over next two years to Taysom Hill. Doesn't seem like a situation that would lead to Winston being paid like a starter there in 2021

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let's dive into the future at DE for a second:

Fact 1: There is zero chance Graham and Barnett are allowed to count a total of $28.5m against the cap in 2021.

Assertion 1: I think it is unlikely Graham takes a pay cut substantial enough to make Graham/Barnett a viable option as the starting DE's in 2021.

Possibility 1: Graham may agree to a modest pay cut.  But this would only be enough for the Eagles to side with sentimentality/proven production so that they keep Graham while declining the option of Barnett.

Possibility 2: Graham won't take enough of a pay cut, Barnett stays on his $10.5m option and Graham is gone in 2021.

Possibility 3: Eagles trade for Yannick and extend him.  That means BOTH Graham and Barnett's contracts MUST be off the books for 2021.

 

Reasonable assumption/conclusion 1: The Eagles are going to have one veteran DE with starting experience in 2021.  The other spot will need to be entrusted to the competition between Sweat/Miller/Toohill and a high 2021 draft pick.  

Reasonable assumption/conclusion 2: Expect better than even odds that our 2021 first round pick is a DE.

I doubt Schwartz has any interest in Yannick, to him "one trick ponies" are guys who come off the bench and aren't worth major resources.

He wants his DEs to hold the edge, play the run and not let the QB roll out, and doesn't want some uber-athlete who's fixated on his sack totals.

"Run defense has never been Yannick Ngakoue’s calling card. He earned sub-60.0 run-defense grades in each of his last two seasons at Maryland (2014-15), and he’s yet to eclipse the 60.0 mark in his three years in the NFL. He slid to pick No. 69 in the 2016 NFL Draft as a result but has since exceeded expectations with the Jacksonville Jaguars because he’s still very good at what he’s always been very good at – rushing the passer."

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-yannick-ngakoue-is-a-premier-pass-rushing-talent-deserves-a-multi-year-extension

You only have so many resources, and it's obvious DT is a higher priority than DE, they signed Jerrigan, then Jackson, then Hargrave.

One reason is with the increase in mobile QBs, the DE who pins back his ears can be a liability if he lets the QB roll out of the pocket.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Whether or not Howie made the right choices (check back in 3 years), the draft was very different from Douglas.

What I want to see is internal logic in a draft, does the man have a plan?

Howie moved away from "he produced at a big time program" and toward combining athleticism and character (i.e. no gambles on bad apples or good guys who can't run). And he put more emphasis on health, they've had too many injuries the past few years.

This draft reflected that new philosophy, Prince was the only medical gamble and that was a value gamble (low cost, high upside). Lots of speed and overall athleticism, lots of guys "who love football" and will put the effort in to improve.

He certainly felt "the need for speed".

My suspicion is that Doug drove the Hurts pick, both because he's had to play Wentz's backup three straight seasons in the playoffs and because he must have fallen in love with Hurts, otherwise they would have just waited until the 4th rd to pick your usual generic backup (either an athlete with a weak arm or a pocket QB with a strong but erratic arm). Reports that Doug was smiling when asked about the pick confirms this, didn't sound like a HC at odds with his GM. QB is different than any other position, as the Eagles showed last year, you can win without a starting caliber WR, but try winning without a starting caliber (even if not a top 20 guy) QB in the cap era.

What they probably saw in Hurts was a combination of attributes:

1) Great athleticism, doesn't have the jets of Jackson, but he's an explosive runner at 225 lbs, as a RB might have been a top 100 pick. And probably would have been an excellent receiver at RB, as we see with Ward, ex-QBs often have an edge b/c they're used to handling the ball and know routes.

2) Great intangibles, you don't start at Alabama and Oklahoma without them, obviously he won't be intimidated by the NFL

3) Intelligence and the basic skill package, good enough arm, someone you hope to coach up. Not Russell Wilson, but similar in that he went to a major program as a graduate and started and won immediately in a different scheme.

They might have gotten a better WR at #53 than the ones they drafted later, but the odds are that one of the three (and Goodwin) may end up as productive over the next four seasons as say Mims. And they weren't getting a solid QB prospect later on, gambling you're gonna hit on another Dak on the 3rd day, really long odds.

One player rarely makes a draft, at the end of the day hopefully they'll end up with 2-3 starters (Slay, Reagor, Prince, Wallace) and a half dozen backups who contribute.

If they don't trade for Slay, they might have passed on Hurts at #53 and moved up into the 60s to take him, but Slay has more value than anyone on the board at #53.

 

No F'ing way.

1 hour ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

It’ll be interesting to see which group of WRs and which RBs make the team. There’s 2 WRs and 1 RB who are locks. Don’t really think that’s a good thing. A week in TC it could be very obvious we need to add talent at WR and RB. 

I posted a roster a few pages back with who I viewed as locks vs who is fighting to be on the team.  To me it looks like there are 10-12 spots up for grabs. 

RB locks- Miles Sanders, Boston Scott, free agent veteran not signed yet (Corey Clement, Devonta Freeman, Shady...)

4th running back will be between Killins/Warren/Holyfield

WR locks- Reagor, Ward, DJack, Goodwin

5th and 6th WR-  I think as of now Hightower/Watkins are interchangeable so pick who has the better camp.  I'm happy washing our hands of JJAW but I think they keep him on the team.

Alshon is PUP/IR/cut/traded

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think Watkins will be released and we keep our fingers crossed he makes it to the PS.

His entire college experience was getting the ball dumped to him underneath and beating the defense in a foot race to the end zone.  I'm glad they drafted him and I'm excited to see our coaches get their hands on him, but I don't think he's going to be roster-able by September.  

That’s the most likely outcome, I fear. 

Just now, bpac55 said:

I posted a roster a few pages back with who I viewed as locks vs who is fighting to be on the team.  To me it looks like there are 10-12 spots up for grabs. 

RB locks- Miles Sanders, Boston Scott, free agent veteran not signed yet (Corey Clement, Devonta Freeman, Shady...)

4th running back will be between Killins/Warren/Holyfield

WR locks- Reagor, Ward, DJack, Goodwin

5th and 6th WR-  I think as of now Hightower/Watkins are interchangeable so pick who has the better camp.  I'm happy washing our hands of JJAW but I think they keep him on the team.

Alshon is PUP/IR/cut/traded

I definitely wouldn’t make Goodwin a lock. The investment is so small that we basically got him for a training camp look. 

Still want to see a between the tackles north/south RB added to this team. 
 

Going back to 2016, this offense is best when they establish the north/south run game. This goes back to Ryan Mathews. Then subsequently Blount and Ajayi in 2017 followed by this past season with Jordan Howard. In 2018 we saw how bad the offense was without a strong run game. 
 

Yeah I understand wanting to mimic the Chiefs and the team definitely needed speed. But sorry if I’m not too optimistic that a bunch of rookie day 3 fastballs (I’m including Goodwin) are the key to take this offense to the next level. 
 

Carlos Hyde or Isaiah Crowell (health pending) would be a very good and cheap addition. 

I’ll also add that Sanders was great last year and he’s going to be a huge asset to this offense for the next 2-3 seasons. However, I don’t want DP to expect him to be the next Westbrook or Shady and give him 30 touches a game. Teams that expect the RB to also be WR #2 aren’t winning many games. 

12 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Of all the speed we have added this weekend, I'm not sure anyone looks faster on tape than this Killins character.  He's truly diminutive and may not amount to much, but you literally cannot see his feet with a standard frame rate.  Every time he crosses the end zone with no one near him, it's at full speed with a head bob like he's trying to break the plane first in the olympic trials.  He does this every time when there is no one within 10 yards.  It's somewhat comical.

Agreed.

What is interesting about Killins is that his small frame and body reminds me a lot of Donnell Pumphrey, except for the fact that I remember being shocked at how slow Pumphrey looked when he finally got on an NFL field.    Not just a lack of straight line speed, I didn't see any "quicks" from Pumphrey either that I was expecting to see.  Maybe Pumphrey had it but he just wasn't able to process the NFL game fast enough mentally, I don't know.   But he did not have the game speed he needed for the NFL.   Especially not for his diminutive size.

To me Killins appears many times quicker and faster than Pumphrey ever did.  I am very curious to see Killins once he gets to play against the Eagles 1st and 2nd team defense.    Will he be the same disappointment that Pumphrey was?  Or will that speed and quicks jump off the screen against NFL players too?

It's an interesting thing to watch for...assuming there is ever a training camp.

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I posted a roster a few pages back with who I viewed as locks vs who is fighting to be on the team.  To me it looks like there are 10-12 spots up for grabs. 

RB locks- Miles Sanders, Boston Scott, free agent veteran not signed yet (Corey Clement, Devonta Freeman, Shady...)

4th running back will be between Killins/Warren/Holyfield

WR locks- Reagor, Ward, DJack, Goodwin

5th and 6th WR-  I think as of now Hightower/Watkins are interchangeable so pick who has the better camp.  I'm happy washing our hands of JJAW but I think they keep him on the team.

Alshon is PUP/IR/cut/traded

I think Goodwin and Ward are far from locks. Can’t put Boston as a lock either. 
 

Desean, Reagor, and Sanders are the only locks imo. 

Traditionally, a good draft has one impact starter, one solid starter, one role player.

2019: Sanders, ???, Dillard/Edwards/Rush. The position with an impact starter is RB, but if that becomes Dillard (TBD) we're ok here. 2 UDFAs.
2018: None, Goedert, Maddox/Sweat/Pryor. No big-time starter hurts the class even if Goedert is good. No UDFAs that hit.
2017: None, Barnett, Gerry/Clement/Johnston/Ward Jr.. This was a bad class even if some UDFAs provided some depth. 3 UDFAs.
2016: Wentz, Seumalo, Vaitai/Mills. Excellent class. No UDFAs that hit.

Since Howie has taken over, we've gotten some good UDFAs and have been able to find solid role-players at the back-end of the roster. There's still been a lack of impact starters which is what most of us remember (Jones, Douglas, JJAW).

For 2020 to become a good class, we essentially need Jalen Reagor to become a healthy Will Fuller, one of the OL to become a starter by 2022, an LB to start and someone else to emerge. That's in a realistic range of outcomes regardless of what Jalen Hurts does. 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

What?

I think the Saints relevance in NFC contention ends with Drew Brees.  They have no valid succession plan at QB and have drafted 8 picks in the past 2 years.

Excited about Warren. Like his vision, moves and strength.  He seems to have a little speed too.  Killins is very small for the NFL but man can he scoot!  If somehow he can make it with his size, he definitely brings some sizzle.  

24 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I’ve only watched Hurts a little bit during the televised college playoff matchups over the past few years, but I was impressed at his progress as a QB.  The first time I saw him with Alabama he was a running QB but had limited ability to throw the ball effectively.  The second time I saw him was when he replaced Tua; I thought for sure they were toast in that game based on what I saw the first time.  To my surprise, he came in, rallied the team to a big win — and threw the ball quite well I thought

Last season with Oklahoma I saw him in a couple of games.  Say what you will; Lincoln Riley got comparable production out of Hurts that he got from Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield.  Of course Hurts was never projected to be a #1 overall pick like those guys, but he performed better with the Sooners than I expected.  I think it says a lot for his makeup and coachability 

To be honest, I never saw Murray and Mayfield as being #1 overall picks either.

38 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

The Saints have been all in for the most part since 2014.  They got smarter after the Byrd signing not panning out that year.  Brees has been pretty shot for at least the past 3 years.  His arm can't last 16 games.  Their most successful season was mostly predicated on feeding Ingram/Kamara and limiting his arm usage.  By the time week 12 comes around you can see the fatigue he has. 

😂😂 Almost a 74% completion percentage, 82 TDs, 17 interceptions, and over 11,000 yards. Yeah man he’s pretty shot. 

1 minute ago, Cliftoma said:

Excited about Warren. Like his vision, moves and strength.  He seems to have a little speed too.  Killins is very small for the NFL but man can he scoot!  If somehow he can make with his size, he definitely brings some sizzle.  

I was just looking at some game film on Warren; has pretty good feet at the LOS, and I’m pretty sure he falls forward for the extra yard even while backing out of his driveway