2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

If that ball was on him he would look even faster.  He had to reel it back in to let the ball get there.  Put it in front and you see him blazing.

32 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

What?

I’m working on an in depth Hurts post, and one of the things I was trying to figure out was his second round contract value. This is a little more than I had ball parked, but not by much.

Think about it this way... a good backup QB is going to cost in the $5-$8 million per year range. That’s for a guy who sits on the bench all year unless your starter gets hurt. Basically, a very expensive insurance policy.

So what’s the added value of that role being filled by a player who gives you actual on field production as a RB, WR, gadget passer and special teamer when your QB isn’t hurt? And how much is the potential roster spot you could save by having a productive backup QB worth?

I was thinking about $9.5M for this type of player. The saints put it at $10.5M. Not a huge leap IMO. The guaranteed money is pretty big, but it’s a short term deal. There is almost no chance they would want to cut him after 1 year.

20 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Listening to Doug and Howie I think it's safe to say Ward is a lock.  I know a lot of posters on here don't want to hear it but I agree and think he is.  

Boston is a lock no question in my mind.  

Listening to Doug, you’d think Groh and Walch were locks to return too. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

Listening to Doug, you’d think Groh and Walch were locks to return too. 

Good point.  This will be an ongoing discussion/disagreement between lots of us until week 1. 

1 minute ago, TEW said:

I’m working on an in depth Hurts post, and one of the things I was trying to figure out was his second round contract value. This is a little more than I had ball parked, but not by much.

Think about it this way... a good backup QB is going to cost in the $5-$8 million per year range. That’s for a guy who sits on the bench all year unless your starter gets hurt. Basically, a very expensive insurance policy.

So what’s the added value of that role being filled by a player who gives you actual on field production as a RB, WR, gadget passer and special teamer when your QB isn’t hurt? And how much is the potential roster spot you could save by having a productive backup QB worth?

I was thinking about $9.5M for this type of player. The saints put it at $10.5M. Not a huge leap IMO. The guaranteed money is pretty big, but it’s a short term deal. There is almost no chance they would want to cut him after 1 year.

I don’t think Hill is the backup QB though. 

3 hours ago, purplefiggy said:

I think one other challenge with the concept of drafting backups in the top 100 is, how many of those guys are wired to accept that role?  Maybe this guy is but I’d guess far less than 50% would. 
 

that’s something built into a guy you pick in the 5th round. Even if he dreams of being a full time starter, he understands his path is proving he can be a decent backup first. 

Excellent point, and something else to factor in to the equation.

8 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

They would have taken Love at 21. 

All the chatter pit here is that the Colts were moving up to take Love and thats why GB jumped in

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

He's got the gas, and he's got the drops.

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

If they don't get a 1st for Hurts then what has to happen for the pick to make sense?  Do we hope that Carson gets hurt so we can say oh well at least we spent that pick on Hurts?  I don't want to harp on this forever but I'm still trying to come to grips with it.  CeeDee was the guy IMO.  Jalen Hurts is the reason they didn't pull the trigger.  I just don't know what has to happen for us to justify the pick.  No one wants to see Carson hurt.

They improved their D-Line with Gallimore and Anae.  Anae is a steal in the 6th.  They lost Byron Jones and took Diggs and Reggie Robinson.  I disagree, I think Diggs has talent to be a good corner in the NFL.  Would you say the same thing if the Eagles took Diggs?  I think we would be high fiving if the Eagles came away with Diggs.  It's a solid draft for them.

 

Yeah I don’t really like Diggs as a prospect tbh.  If the Eagles were looking at CB I would have been happier with Gladney, Johnson, Arnette or even Terrell as a weak side CB opposite Slay.

I will consider the Hurts pick worth it if he comes in for a 1-2 game stretch perhaps once per season and keeps the Eagles in the win column.  If he ever has to come in during a WC game the way McCown had to in January I’d consider it a pick well spent if he can get that one important win that can help get the Eagles to another Super Bowl

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think Hill is the backup QB though. 

He's not.  The Saints just signed Famous Jameis in the early morning hours.

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

If we get nothing out of Hurts or end up only trading him for a 2nd down the road and CeeDee Lamb becomes a top WR this draft is a huge F.

That's a completely and totally unrealistic way to define the draft.    1 pick does not define a draft, one way or the other.

Just now, ManuManu said:

I don’t think Hill is the backup QB though. 

I think he’s being groomed as a pure QB. And not just the backup, but their potential starter:

 

1 minute ago, Arsenal79 said:

He's not.  The Saints just signed Famous Jameis in the early morning hours.

Can you imagine going from the most accurate passer in NFL history down to a guy throwing 30 INT in today’s NFL?  Payton better spend the rest of his money hiring bodyguards for Brees

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Yeah I don’t really like Diggs as a prospect tbh.  If the Eagles were looking at CB I would have been happier with Gladney, Johnson, Arnette or even Terrell as a weak side CB opposite Slay.

I will consider the Hurts pick worth it if he comes in for a 1-2 game stretch perhaps once per season and keeps the Eagles in the win column.  If he ever has to come in during a WC game the way McCown had to in January I’d consider it a pick well spent if he can get that one important win that can help get the Eagles to another Super Bowl

The same thing a veteran quarterback could do for us?  This is why the pick just bothers me to no end.  They've been selling Nate Sudfeld to us for years.  There are capable quarterbacks out there.  Flacco isn't the Super Bowl quarterback we all remember but he is serviceable and can fling it to our new track team. 

I still just don't like the pick one bit.  I can't imagine the reaction here if CeeDee Lamb torches Sidney Jones for a game winning TD and Jalen Hurts isn't even dressed for the game.  

I'm trying to come to terms with it, trying to understand the thought process but I honestly just can't agree with the pick one bit.

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Agreed. Scott is a true RB. He might be undersized by NFL starter size standards, but he is built to take the punishment from a rotational role in the backfield.

Killins is a weapon more than a pure RB. He’s the kind of guy a coach needs to be creative with. Giving him 10-15 carries out of the backfield per game will get him hurt. 

You want Killins getting 2 or 3 carries out of the backfield, getting 2 or 3 catches out of the backfield, a carry on a jet sweep, and 1 or 2 catches as a slot receiver. He’s not someone I think can handle high volume. He’s an efficiency, big play guy. You get him some returns on special teams plus 6-8 creative touches on offense and you hope to get a couple big plays from that workload.

I agree.   I think Killins speed makes him a great UDFA addition.   But even if he makes the final 55 man roster, he will likely always be a tinker toy, 4-8 touches per game guy.   His frame doesn't look like it can pack on much additional weight.   He could get stronger in a weight room sure.  But a guy with that small frame is going to take a lot of potential punishment working around the LOS and middle of the field.   There seems to be a risk he could get broken in half on any play.    

As a big Wentz supporter I hated the Hurts pick, but it’s not hard to understand Howie’s reasoning. 3 years in a row we’ve had playoff appearances and 3 years in a row Wentz was not the QB to finish out our season.   Best case scenario Hurts isn’t needed and that is upsetting considering how many weapons we needed in this draft, but Howie definitely delivered that day 3.

I still don’t want to see Hurts on the field when Wentz is healthy, but TBD. Doug has a plan.

Michael Robinson was a 4th rd pick.

Randel El was a 2nd rd pick

Brad Smith was a 4th rd pick

Scott Frost was a 3rd rd pick

Denard Robinson 5th rd

Bert Emaneul, 2nd rd

Now Hurts is a better college QB than this group, but if you watched him at Oklahoma, he had the RB skill set. Power, explosion, elusive with good but not great speed.

Hurts completed 69.7 percent of his passes (237 of 340) for 3,851 yards and 32 touchdowns with eight interceptions in 14 starts. He also led the Sooners in rushing with 1,298 yards (233 carries, 5.6 per) while running for 20 touchdowns, which ranked in the top 10 nationally, and caught two passes for 25 yards (12.5 per) and a score.

Most QBs convert to WR due to body type, you're not making a slim fast QB into a RB.

Interesting take on Hurts as a QB:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-comparing-oklahomas-jalen-hurts-to-the-other-second-tier-quarterbacks

 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a completely and totally unrealistic way to define the draft.    1 pick does not define a draft, one way or the other.

Yes, a slight overreaction comment by me.  So much hinges on that though. 

Prince could be the LT of the future, Wallace could be our next Jenkins,  if 2 of the WR pan out it's great.

21 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Not gonna sugar coat it. He looked like a bum in this game. Like unathletic and stiff. He must have been a great special teamer and the greatest teammate of all time. 

If that's his ceiling...  ST and good locker room guy, I can live with that from a 6th round pick.  Not a guy you build your reputation on as a talent evaluator, but glue guys like that are good to have around.

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

My suspicion is we have a lead back, Sanders.  We have a change of pace back for the Sproles carries, Scott.   We have a power back, Warren.   All three can run between the tackles.  All three can catch.   Sanders and Scott can run RB and WR routes.  Warren can run TE/FB routes.   I think they likely carry a fourth. Could be Holyfield.  Could be Killins.  Could be someone signed later.  May bring back Corey.  May use that fourth spot to carry a third TE or another WR.  Maybe an extra OL.  Back of the roster discussions we have every summer. 

I think those 3 are the ones who make the team. I think Sanders and Warren are the most likely. Because I like Warren more than Holyfield. I think Scott has the inside track after his performance last year, but if hes like sproles, Killins is like sproles with a jet pack so I think he has a chance. Mostly, I think Killins would likely only pass Scott if he kills it on returns. But maybe Scott makes it and Killins makes the team as a return specialist and we carry 4. 

Yeah Hurts definitely has the RB body type.  Won't be afraid of him running between the tackles from time to time.  I fully expect him to lineup at RB behind Wentz in certain special "dual-passer" situations.

Thinking about the most charitable way to look at drafting Hurts. I don't buy the future draft capital argument, because even a 1st round pick in 2021 or 2022 would essentially be a wash with a current #53 pick. It's possible he could be used like Taysom Hill in 1-4 plays every game. That, too, seems like an under use for someone who was arguably one of the top 5 QBs in this year's draft. Hurts deserves a shot at being a starter somewhere. One thing the Eagles do is overspend for the backup QB position, and given there is a 50/50 chance that QB will start at least one game, that might be a position worth spending on. If drafting Hurts frees up cap room next year and the following year, that could prove to be worth spending a second round pick for. Or maybe the Eagles are hedging their bets that Wentz won't be able to remain healthy. Or maybe they saw that a NFC East rival was fixing to snap him up, and it was a blocking move. So this could be seen as a cost-saving move looking ahead to the next two years when the Eagles may be facing cap strain.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

If that's his ceiling...  ST and good locker room guy, I can live with that from a 6th round pick.  Not a guy you build your reputation on as a talent evaluator, but glue guys like that are good to have around.

If he becomes Omar Gaither it's a good pick.   His head coach raved about him as a leader and the kind of guy you build around.  I'll take that for a spot duty/ST linebacker.

15 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

That is a 100% fact. He saw a guy he loved as a person and was intrigued by his skill set. A former QB like Doug is always gonna be giddy about QB prospects. 

Especially when your QB is injury prone.

12 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

Excellent point, and something else to factor in to the equation.

Hurts & Taylor are absolutely wired to be backups as they've both done it well in college. 

Reagor is not wired to be on the bench though.