2 minutes ago, justrelax said:

What are these numbers? 72.9? 69.7?

yeah the knock on Hurts isnt accuracy - its the ability to read a D and throw quickly - his release time was worst this past year wasnt it?

my fear is he cant read a defense and therefore is not a "high quality" backup qb until several years from now if ever. it would almost have to go full RPO for him

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I would add to that that the presence of the 3rd round comp pick also did was free up the other 3rd round pick to be used in trade for Slay.    Without that, I'm not sure the Eagles make that trade.

Well, now the draft is over.  It has been discussed to death.  And training camp is unlikely to start on time.

This next stretch is going to be a long and boring one.

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I never thought for one second McCown was capable of getting the Eagles into the end zone against SEA; he's a 40 year old journeyman and getting the offense down to the 20 was about all he could do.  Sudfeld hasn't ever shown a darn thing

The Eagles went into the draft without a #2 QB.  That's evidently how Pederson and Roseman see it as well.

Yeah. They definitely did. My opinion is it had more to do with Doug wanting to coach the kid. 
 

I guess one of my issues is everyone has seen a lot from Hurts. His ceiling as a QB is pretty low imo. If he gets good coaching he’s another Tavaris Jackson or Case Keenum. Could be totally wrong but that’s how I feel about him as a QB prospect. 

3 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Handsome is as handsome does. McCown was very much a veteran QB.

... with no time to prepare, who had dreck at WR, and who was injured during the game.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Well, now the draft is over.  It has been discussed to death.  And training camp is unlikely to start on time.

This next stretch is going to be a long and boring one.

I was thinking this.  What's next?  Legit nothing on the horizon.  

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

We drafted WRs that fit both his and Carson's strengths (intermediate to deep passing). 

Some were critical about using Hurts in a pure WCO. I agree, that's dumb. We're also not going to run that if Hurts has to play for an extended time.

Of course not.  They revamped the offense for the playoffs with Foles in 2017.  It wasn't the same offense.  And it wouldn't be for Hurts, it would be a little more Ravens-like.   The concern I have with that, is that the RB cupboard is a little bare.  I love Miles Sanders, but I don't want to ride him too much.  He's not a 25 carry a game guy.  Scott is what Scott is... a role player, not a carry the load guy either.  I expect that after the comp pick window ends, they will survey the options at the vet RB market and might bring a guy in.  OR... they really like Holyfield more than we might even think.  He's a bowling ball... and likely could take the punishment.  He's no home-run threat, but could be an option more in the Ajayi/Blount role where the goal is to wear down the opponent.  Neither of those guys was going to take it the distance.  We saw that against the Chargers with Blount, and Dallas with Ajayi.  Even if they broke free, they were going to get caught from behind... but people had to consider how to attack them when they were coming at them with their shoulders square.

Just now, EaglePhan1986 said:

Yeah. They definitely did. My opinion is it had more to do with Doug wanting to coach the kid. 
 

I guess one of my issues is everyone has seen a lot from Hurts. His ceiling as a QB is pretty low imo. If he gets good coaching he’s another Tavaris Jackson or Case Keenum. Could be totally wrong but that’s how I feel about him as a QB prospect. 

Actually I think he's developed a lot as a passer from what I first saw of him at Alabama, but he's still a young kid at 21.

The grand plan isn't for him to come in and throw a lot of passes, though.  Change of pace X factor/joker for 3-4 plays per game, get him the ball in space, and hope he can develop somewhat close to what Lamar Jackson did as a passer.  I sure didn't have Jackson pegged as a capable passer before he was drafted.

13 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Are you kidding? Drama around carson will start almost immediately

I totally agree, but a lot of that will be due to intellectual dishonesty.

I find it pretty ironic that the Philly media will blame the Eagles for "creating controversy" with the pick, when in reality it will be them (especially the talk radio guys) who will use this topic to try and whip up a frenzy to generate clicks and listeners.

Personally I am not fully convinced using #53 on a QB was a good choice.  There is definitely a glass half empty argument to make about pick #53, or even using #21 on Reagor vs Jefferson or using #21 and #53 to trade up for Lamb.   One could even make a glass half empty argument about this entire draft class if one wanted.  Yes, the draft picks all have great speed and athleticism, which I was glad to see, but they are all also mostly later round lottery ticket types.    Howie said hope is not a strategy, but until proven otherwise, most of the Eagles draft picks are late round hopes at this point.

That doesn't mean I am entirely negative, and it doesn't mean I hate the Hurts pick, or this draft class.   I think there is a real discussion to be had about the merits and strategy behind the Eagles selections that doesn't require one to go to either extreme on the opposite ends of the spectrum.    

We both have been around long enough to know very well that the reality is that just like every other draft class we may have "Loved" or "Hated" in the past 2 decades, none of us will know the actual truth for at least 2-3 years.   Maybe even 3-4 years for some of these prospects.

13 minutes ago, justrelax said:

What are these numbers? 72.9? 69.7?

The metric and imperial measurements of my waist?

 

Be right back. My box of jelly donuts just arrived. 

 

6 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

... with no time to prepare, who had dreck at WR, and who was injured during the game.

I don't know what that means.   A Backup QB is always one play away from coming into the game - that's the nature of the job.  And that wasn't new to McCown.   He was also with the team for long enough to mesh with the team.  

 

You can say that the injury was the biggest detriment, and you'd be right.  Older QBs tend to be more easily injured.  Hurts, on the other hand, would be far less likely to tear his hamstring off the bone running away.  Ultimately, that's a big part of his game.  

do we want a 2021 scouting thread on the new board?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/27/way-too-early-nfl-2021-mock-draft

way to early and completely useless 2021 mock draft but an early peek at expectations. Chase and Waddle are my wr #1 and 2 and that seems to be a fairly common position. Ross at Clemson maybe third

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

I don't know what that means.   A Backup QB is always one play away from coming into the game - that's the nature of the job.  And that wasn't new to McCown.   He was also with the team for long enough to mesh with the team.  

 

You can say that the injury was the biggest detriment, and you'd be right.  Older QBs tend to be more easily injured.  Hurts, on the other hand, would be far less likely to tear his hamstring off the bone running away.  Ultimately, that's a big part of his game.  

I think there is a monumental difference between, "hey, Wentz just got hurt, get in there" and "hey, with Wentz's injury it looks like you are starting next week."

10 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I was thinking this.  What's next?  Legit nothing on the horizon.  

NBA players are starting to go to the gym in some states now...  so... that's a glimmer of hope.

Some states are starting to open up a little more... so we have to hope that what we've learned has helped us all learn how to keep transmission rates down, AND hope that the virus is actually far more widespread than we know, and that more people than we know have already been exposed and developed some immunity.  One study in some town in CA showed that about 25% of that population might have been infected.  If it was that widely spread everywhere, then there might be a lesser risk with more common sense and more careful interactions.  But, I think the idea of playing in empty stadiums, arenas, etc. is the only way to proceed with sports.   25,000 fans for NHL or NBA, or 40,000 for MLB, or 70,000 for NFL... that just won't work out well.  1 infected person there can spread the virus like wildfire.   But, a couple hundred folks at the stadium for an NFL game would be a much more mitigated risk.

5 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I find it pretty ironic that the Philly media will blame the Eagles for "creating controversy" with the pick, when in reality it will be them (especially the talk radio guys) who will use this topic to try and whip up a frenzy to generate clicks and listeners.

The "this will cause a distraction" crowd are the ones beating the drum that it's a controversy. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not worried about it in the locker room for a few reasons

• Hurts is used to being a backup and knew before being drafted he'd be at best in a QB competition, at worst a backup competition
• Covid-19 means less questions at mini-camp, OTAs, training camp, etc. 
• The players are all going to want Wentz to start because he's going to be visibly better. This isn't a Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson situation. 
• The players are not going to be mad at the pick because they're all used to fighting for jobs and they've seen Wentz get hurt
• Unlike after SB 52, Wentz has financial security. He knows he's not in danger of getting traded or losing money. Hurts may push him, but he's not losing his job

Now, I still dislike the pick. Drafting a backup QB at 53 is not what I would have done. But it's not a QB controversy.

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yep my bad.  Hurts is a more accurate passer than Tebow.  So is my basset hound.  But it's a start.  RAH TEAM!!

 

Overview

Like Tim Tebow, Hurts is a winning dual-threat quarterback known for his strength, toughness and character. Hurts is a more accurate passer and better runner than Tebow but is inconsistent as a decision-maker and tends to break the pocket when throws are there to be made. His deep-ball touch and intermediate accuracy improved this year so teams may see him as a developmental talent who will keep getting better in the right scheme. He'll struggle to beat NFL defenses from the pocket, but his ability to grind out yards on the ground and make off-schedule plays should make him a solid backup with upward mobility.

Besides all of his ability as a runner, I do really like the touch Hurts gets on the deep ball. And he has the requisite arm strength to play in the NFL. 
 

I’m sure under this regime his mechanics will continue to improve. It’s the analytical side of playing QB that I worry about. The anticipatory throws, pre-snap coverage reads, etc. Think he’s way behind in those areas. 

18 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

... with no time to prepare, who had dreck at WR, and who was injured during the game.

All true except maybe the time to prepare. It’s not like he came off the street the night before. What did happen, in my view, is that we put all our eggs in one basket and were caught short with no viable options. Sorry for the mangled metaphors.

19 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

You stating the D-ends currently on our roster proves it’ll be a priority next offseason. 

I'm being optimistic.  We have time to kill....months of discussion.  What IF Barnett stays healthy and becomes a double digit guy.  Like him or not he is a very solid complete end.  He will never dominate but he provides against the pass and run.

I have no doubt Sweat will continue to progress and I see him being an 8 sack guy this year.

Avery and Ostman are the wildcards.  In his first game Avery showed what we all hoped he would be, a dynamic pass rushing weapon.  They have to build off of that.  Ostman had a roll being built for him, some say Avery takes that roll but I think Ostman just has that Jared Allen type of motor in him.  I know we haven't seen it in a game yet but I am going off of his CMU tape.  He was so good in college. He was getting a taste of success and building confidence leading up to camp and I have no doubt he comes back hungry and won't back down.  

I know this is all best case scenario stuff but just imagine if what the Eagles have invested in their defensive end group actually pans out.  I think the Eagles buy low and not only pick up Barnett's 5th year option but extend him on the cheap hoping he turns the corner and becomes a great all around end.

2021 staters are Barnett and Sweat.

Ostman and Avery rotate in.  Miller/Hall/Toohill fight it out for the 5th spot.  BG is gone.  

Invest heavy in DT.

It’s funny that we all feel the need to state "but I still dislike the pick” so we don’t get berated for being homers by a few very vocal haters of the pick. 

7 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

I think there is a monumental difference between, "hey, Wentz just got hurt, get in there" and "hey, with Wentz's injury it looks like you are starting next week."

Yes.  And?  Is that a luxury a backup QB normally gets?  Nah.  Foles got thrown into the Rams game in 2017... and he had to perform.  He'd didn't do great, but he did enough.  And it was that 'enough' that got the Eagles HFA, and that's what got them to the Super Bowl.

 

The interesting piece to this that if the Eagles decide to have a package of plays or whatever for Hurts, then he wouldn't be coming in to the game cold... 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

It’s funny that we all feel the need to state "but I still dislike the pick” so we don’t get berated for being homers by a few very vocal haters of the pick. 

What's interesting is that the reaction to the Jalen Hurts pick is very similar to the Jimmy Garappolo pick. Jimmy went #62 overall, so in the same range. He was drafted to backup a better, more durable QB and Patriots fans were just as upset. It worked out fine for them.

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

It’s funny that we all feel the need to state "but I still dislike the pick” so we don’t get berated for being homers by a few very vocal haters of the pick. 

My reaction at the time was, "What the F,” followed almost immediately by, "Oh, OK.”

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm being optimistic.  We have time to kill....months of discussion.  What IF Barnett stays healthy and becomes a double digit guy.  Like him or not he is a very solid complete end.  He will never dominate but he provides against the pass and run.

I have no doubt Sweat will continue to progress and I see him being an 8 sack guy this year.

Avery and Ostman are the wildcards.  In his first game Avery showed what we all hoped he would be, a dynamic pass rushing weapon.  They have to build off of that.  Ostman had a roll being built for him, some say Avery takes that roll but I think Ostman just has that Jared Allen type of motor in him.  I know we haven't seen it in a game yet but I am going off of his CMU tape.  He was so good in college. He was getting a taste of success and building confidence leading up to camp and I have no doubt he comes back hungry and won't back down.  

I know this is all best case scenario stuff but just imagine if what the Eagles have invested in their defensive end group actually pans out.  I think the Eagles buy low and not only pick up Barnett's 5th year option but extend him on the cheap hoping he turns the corner and becomes a great all around end.

2021 staters are Barnett and Sweat.

Ostman and Avery rotate in.  Miller/Hall/Toohill fight it out for the 5th spot.  BG is gone.  

Invest heavy in DT.

I hope you’re right but to me Josh Sweat in a best case scenario is JAG. Not seeing it with him.

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

It’s funny that we all feel the need to state "but I still dislike the pick” so we don’t get berated for being homers by a few very vocal haters of the pick. 

It's always the "opportunity lost" rationale; what I really dislike is for the next 3 years having to read the endless "we should have taken ______ , and then rambling off five different players.  That's not how it works; you get ONE pick.  All of those posts should have a prerequisite showing where they posted before the draft the one particular pick they would have made.

I thought Mims would be the pick for sure -- not because I necessarily saw him as a great prospect, but that the Eagles had him to the facility, had numerous people meet with him, and had several subsequent virtual discussions with him.  Leaving him on the board tells me they have a well-thought-out plan for Hurts.

Whether that plan pans out might be a different story.

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

I don't know what that means.   A Backup QB is always one play away from coming into the game - that's the nature of the job.  And that wasn't new to McCown.   He was also with the team for long enough to mesh with the team.  

 

You can say that the injury was the biggest detriment, and you'd be right.  Older QBs tend to be more easily injured.  Hurts, on the other hand, would be far less likely to tear his hamstring off the bone running away.  Ultimately, that's a big part of his game.  

Yeah, we’d also heard so much all season how McCown was vital in helping Carson prepare every week, similar to Foles, so it’s not like he spit out his Gatorade when they called his number. "Who, me?!”