6 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yet homer Eagle fans are more qualified to evaluate?  I was just merely providing the snapshot there fella, since some have said how great of a draft it was.  No need to get all bent.  

In some ways, some of the people on here are as qualified or more than some of those that grade drafts because they watch a lot of college games and understand fit and technique as well.  For example, Tommy Lawlor, who got his start here is a heck of a lot better at it than Jeff McLane.  I would argue he is better at it than Jimmy Kempski or Solak or Kist.  Look at Tommy’s value board and look at their mocks.  Who hit more of the players that were drafted or signed as UDFAs?   Best review I saw on Prince Tega (goes by Tega) is by JR. Lots of us saw the feet and athleticism.  All of us saw that he is a bit raw (no HS ball but 30+ games in college, where the hard core technique training begins) and that shows in his hand placement. JR noticed he puts his weight on his heels. 

Everyone loves the Diggs pick for Dallas.  That and Lamb gives Dallas a A+ grade.  I see a downgrade from Jones.   He has poor foot placement and lacks recovery speed.  Well the pundits say, Dallas likes to play press.  You can press in the NFL from the LOS to the five yard line.  Good luck with that on DJax, Slayton and McLaurin if you can’t mirror after five yards.  Mirroring after five yards is not a Diggs strength and that is where he gets grabby. You can get away with grabbing in college but not in the NFL.  That’s why Rowe got traded to NE.  J’marr Chase absolutely embarrassed Diggs because he illustrated his weaknesses. Now, Chase embarrassed a lot of CBs and will likely be a top pick when he comes out.  So Diggs will be good against a number of receivers, like wasteam’s Liberty draftee.  But he is replacing a CB that is much faster.   Diggs had better ball skills than Jones but Rasul has even better ball skills.  How has that worked for him.  Even a slower corner that does well mirroring can be victimized by speed.  Gentlemen, I give you Jalen Mills.  That is why makeup speed is important in the NFL. But when it comes to tackling, Mills is much better than Diggs.  Diggs May tackle a bit better than Sydney Jones but not better than Maddox.  In a stronger CB class, Diggs is a late third rounder or fourth rounder.  This wasn’t a good class. I am not convinced that in the long run the better CB selected by a Texas team turns out to be the Texans selection of John Reid.  He was much better at mirroring this year and I saw improvement in his game every year.  Better speed than Diggs.  Probably a number two CB in his career at best but that likely describes Diggs. Problem for Dallas is they needed a number one.  Best selection after the Lions pick at CB this year was in the third, the Eagles pick Darius Slay.  Speed, check; mirror ability, check; tackling, check. Now let’s factor in that fifth round pick,  from 85.  What does that land us at? 70?, 75?   Now we got the contract that goes with a player like Slay but it’s a better deal that what Jones would have cost money wise for a better CB for our scheme. Some man, a lot of Cover 3.  Yet those draft graders give a better grade for Diggs over Slay.  Okay.  

Similar reactions to the 49ers, who had Joe Staley retire and got Trent Williams in his stead for a fifth and a third next year.  Basically the equivalent of a fourth and a fifth. You have to count the trades when considering a draft, including trades that got you those picks or cost you those picks.  Plus a draft really can’t be graded on anything but potential at this point.

My reaction wasn’t aimed at you. I appreciate that you shared information.  My reaction is that I don’t think much of those grades because they rarely consider fit, coaching and future but rather needs and how they graded a player in their rankings.  A player with a 21 grade on one of their lists might have a zero on the team’s ranking because of fit, medical etc.  So, yes, I tend to not give a flying F what they say after draft day.  You can call me a homer fan.  That’s fine.  Looking forward to Kempski’s column next year where he compares mocks to who actually was chosen. 

30 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

4pm give me Amukamara and Everson Griffen.

Superbowl.

Also give me Jason Peters to somewhere at 3:59, please

Sweat might not be more than a JAG, but he has way too much athleticism for that to be his upside. 

1 hour ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I totally agree, but a lot of that will be due to intellectual dishonesty.

I find it pretty ironic that the Philly media will blame the Eagles for "creating controversy" with the pick, when in reality it will be them (especially the talk radio guys) who will use this topic to try and whip up a frenzy to generate clicks and listeners.

Personally I am not fully convinced using #53 on a QB was a good choice.  There is definitely a glass half empty argument to make about pick #53, or even using #21 on Reagor vs Jefferson or using #21 and #53 to trade up for Lamb.   One could even make a glass half empty argument about this entire draft class if one wanted.  Yes, the draft picks all have great speed and athleticism, which I was glad to see, but they are all also mostly later round lottery ticket types.    Howie said hope is not a strategy, but until proven otherwise, most of the Eagles draft picks are late round hopes at this point.

 

Rhino it is great to see you active on here.  It looks like many great posters like you are back active on these new boards and that is awesome to see.

 

The Eagles absolutely created the controversy, both with their choice, which was absurd, and in their commentary afterwards.  I will attempt to summarize the issues that have not been fully explored by pundits and beat writers in a longer post.  I think the points should have been obvious already to anyone who was thinking about the pick and reacting to what was said, rather than just trying to rationalize it and find a way to like it.  I long for the days of debating a position or a specific player, but thinking it all might turn out great anyway, who knows?  I wanted a receiver, they took a corner.  I thought this edge defender was a better player, this safety was a better fit, whatever it is... that is what the draft should be about.  I was livid when they picked Brandon Graham over Earl Thomas, and Graham is now one of my all time favorites and helped win a super bowl.  It still may have been the wrong decision, but it worked out OK.  That is how I look at the vast, vast majority of draft picks.  This is quite different.  This told us many things about the team and the front office that aren't good.

 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

The "this will cause a distraction" crowd are the ones beating the drum that it's a controversy. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not worried about it in the locker room for a few reasons

• Hurts is used to being a backup and knew before being drafted he'd be at best in a QB competition, at worst a backup competition
• Covid-19 means less questions at mini-camp, OTAs, training camp, etc. 
• The players are all going to want Wentz to start because he's going to be visibly better. This isn't a Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson situation. 
• The players are not going to be mad at the pick because they're all used to fighting for jobs and they've seen Wentz get hurt
• Unlike after SB 52, Wentz has financial security. He knows he's not in danger of getting traded or losing money. Hurts may push him, but he's not losing his job

Now, I still dislike the pick. Drafting a backup QB at 53 is not what I would have done. But it's not a QB controversy.

Disagree with this.  It absolutely is and will be a controversy from this point forward... for various reasons, it cannot be otherwise.  Also, it is not the fans or the media that caused this, it is the team's decisions and shortsightedness.

 

8 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

cant agree with you there. Howie is a moron if he didnt know this would be the root cause of the drama. cant blame the media for once.

i will go ahead and say it - it was a wasted pick. the only intellectual dishonesty comes from people trying to rationalize the pick because they are ignoring the obvious behavioral elements to it and trying to focus on the cap savings while assuming Hurts is even a high level prospect

Fair enough.

But just focusing on QB for a second, and taking the Eagles out of the discussion for a moment, where do you think Hurts was likely to be selected?

6 minutes ago, John_C said:

 

Disagree with this.  It absolutely is and will be a controversy from this point forward... for various reasons, it cannot be otherwise.  Also, it is not the fans or the media that caused this, it is the team's decisions and shortsightedness.

It can be both a bad decision and not cause locker room issues. 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

And Jalen Hurts.  A rookie QB with serious accuracy issues is that solution?  Spare me.  Please.  

The more I think about this pick I think the analysis is that having a better back up wins the playoff game.  This, in my view, is a total misread on the need.  Wentz needed weapons.  Part of his need to escape pressure and to expose himself to hits was driven by the lack of weapons.  Moreover, the fact the offense floundered worse is more of a demonstration of the need for additional weapons.  There is almost always going to be a drop off of play when there's a backup.  While it's not good to have a significant drop off the better approach is to make sure the talent on the field is as good as possible.  

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The more I think about this pick I think the analysis is that having a better back up wins the playoff game.  This, in my view, is a total misread on the need.  Wentz needed weapons.  Part of his need to escape pressure and to expose himself to hits was driven by the lack of weapons.  Moreover, the fact the offense floundered worse is more of a demonstration of the need for additional weapons.  There is almost always going to be a drop off of play when there's a backup.  While it's not good to have a significant drop off the better approach is to make sure the talent on the field is as good as possible.  

The tinfoil hat said already has him pegged as nothing but a bad backup. Save your breath. Time will tell

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

It can be both a bad decision and not cause locker room issues. 

I bet you that pick raises quite a few eyebrows in the locker room. It may have planted a seed of doubt in their minds. 

 

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Do we really think football will be cancelled?  I just can't see it happening.  The numbers we are reaching are nowhere near what charts and studies showed.  Part of that is because social distancing has worked but part of that is also that many of the predictions just haven't happened.  We need to reach a point where if you fear you will be infected then you stay home.  I'm sorry if that sounds ignorant but we must move forward as a society.  We can't just have our government keep approving billion and trillion dollar handouts (a lot of the money going to the wrong places to begin with).  We can't accept this as a new normal as so many are trying to push.  I fear that there's a lot of people in power who would like to see this as the new normal however.

Not just sports but events have to go on unless you want to see the entertainment culture we all love go away for good.  Taking away even one years worth of revenue brought in by college football would be devastating for universities.  Many of our events we love to go to....fairs, concerts, car shows you name it don't have the operating budget to just stop one year and pick up where they left off.  

44 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

They are all possibilities in fact. What’s your opinion, which should we sign? 

My favorite, physical pending, is Isaiah Crowell because of his age and north/south running ability. I believe he popped his Achilles week 1 last year. After that I think I’m leaning Hyde. 

30 minutes ago, RLC said:

Can Amukamara still run? If he can, then he's a legitimate #2 CB opposite Slay. I do think they want to give Maddox/Jones the opportunity to win the job.

Yeah that was my question about Amukamara. I didn’t watch the Bears enough to see how he played last year. But I know the Bears released him a while ago and he Has been on the market.  I’m all for bringing him in if you want competition and it’s not gonna cost you anything.  frankly I don’t think you should just be handing maddox or Jones the competition. Make them earn it and prove themselves. Maddox did not play very well last year and Sydney Jones is still a huge question mark. 

12 minutes ago, John_C said:

Disagree with this.  It absolutely is and will be a controversy from this point forward... for various reasons, it cannot be otherwise.  Also, it is not the fans or the media that caused this, it is the team's decisions and shortsightedness.

I think you would have to expect the worst to foresee some controversy next season. Wentz is the starter next season even if the team falters.  The only way this becomes a controversy next season is if Wentz misses a significant amount of time and Hurts plays well in his place.  If the team isn't in the playoffs next season, then there is an issue but those questions would be raised even if Hurts wasn't drafted.  While certainly the media can forecast some scenarios where Wentz is traded in the future, I don't think that creates any real issue on the team.  This is Wentz's team next season.  Hurts is here to develop as a backup QB.  

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I bet you that pick raises quite a few eyebrows in the locker room. It may have planted a seed of doubt in their minds. 

100% agree with the former. But make no mistake, players are much happier the Eagles drafted a backup QB then a player who could compete for their job. 

The person who is most upset right now is Nate Sudfeld.

5 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The more I think about this pick I think the analysis is that having a better back up wins the playoff game.  This, in my view, is a total misread on the need.  Wentz needed weapons.  Part of his need to escape pressure and to expose himself to hits was driven by the lack of weapons.  Moreover, the fact the offense floundered worse is more of a demonstration of the need for additional weapons.  There is almost always going to be a drop off of play when there's a backup.  While it's not good to have a significant drop off the better approach is to make sure the talent on the field is as good as possible.  

A 2nd round pick is expected/hoped for to be a starter.  While you can argue whether you need 2 starters at QB, the eagles seem to have decided that's the best risk mitigation to winning a  SB given that the QB is the most important position.  The thought process that getting a good QB there, saving on cap space to get one with similar potential in free agency and getting a good team player that has done it before and not rocked the boat may not be bad.  Allows then to use cap $ on other positions in free agency vs the draft.  I get its an emotional issue for many on the board and many fans (heck I was upset Saturday).  But if the logic is the above, I can understand it, its just not traditional.

7 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

The tinfoil hat said already has him pegged as nothing but a bad backup. Save your breath. Time will tell

If I wanted to save my breath, I wouldn't be here. 

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Do we really think football will be cancelled?  I just can't see it happening.  The numbers we are reaching are nowhere near what charts and studies showed.  Part of that is because social distancing has worked but part of that is also that many of the predictions just haven't happened.  We need to reach a point where if you fear you will be infected then you stay home.  I'm sorry if that sounds ignorant but we must move forward as a society.  We can't just have our government keep approving billion and trillion dollar handouts (a lot of the money going to the wrong places to begin with).  We can't accept this as a new normal as so many are trying to push.  I fear that there's a lot of people in power who would like to see this as the new normal however.

Not just sports but events have to go on unless you want to see the entertainment culture we all love go away for good.  Taking away even one years worth of revenue brought in by college football would be devastating for universities.  Many of our events we love to go to....fairs, concerts, car shows you name it don't have the operating budget to just stop one year and pick up where they left off.  

Do you believe there will never be a cure?  That we have to just grit our teeth, go out, get sick and die until we are immune?  That's the plan?

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yeah that was my question about Amukamara. I didn’t watch the Bears enough to see how he played last year. But I know the Bears released him a while ago and he Has been on the market.  I’m all for bringing him in if you want competition and it’s not gonna cost you anything.  frankly I don’t think you should just be handing maddox or Jones the competition. Make them earn it and prove themselves. Maddox did not play very well last year and Sydney Jones is still a huge question mark. 

This is where I'm at as well.  But it's not up to us.

Who knows where Schwartz is with all this, though.

8 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

My favorite, physical pending, is Isaiah Crowell because of his age and north/south running ability. I believe he popped his Achilles week 1 last year. After that I think I’m leaning Hyde. 

if we were going to do it then I would go with Devonta freeman. He had over 1000 yards combined receiving and rushing last year with Atlanta. His yards per carry were really poor but then when you look into the fact Atlanta was down three offensive lineman and they were down two Starters by week 5  kind of makes sense as no one really did much consistently with the running game and they gave up 48 sacks so there’s a chance he might have something left. Plus he’s good in the pass game and he will be a good mentor

However I think there’s some things going against the Eagles. I think he’s gonna have a better opportunity somewhere else competing for more time maybe even a bigger role. I think somebody’s going to give them more money than what we want to give to bring somebody in like that. And there’s always a chance he’s just done and it wasn’t Atlanta’s offensive lines fault

1 minute ago, Mandrake_1971 said:

A 2nd round pick is expected/hoped for to be a starter.  While you can argue whether you need 2 starters at QB, the eagles seem to have decided that's the best risk mitigation to winning a  SB given that the QB is the most important position.  The thought process that getting a good QB there, saving on cap space to get one with similar potential in free agency and getting a good team player that has done it before and not rocked the boat may not be bad.  Allows then to use cap $ on other positions in free agency vs the draft.  I get its an emotional issue for many on the board and many fans (heck I was upset Saturday).  But if the logic is the above, I can understand it, its just not traditional.

Understanding the logic is not the same as agreeing with it.  My view is that they learned the wrong lesson from past mistakes.  

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

100% agree with the former. But make no mistake, players are much happier the Eagles drafted a backup QB then a player who could compete for their job. 

The person who is most upset right now is Nate Sudfeld.

I doubt that. Maybe initially, but after that moment it shifts pretty quickly to why the hell did we do that?

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Do we really think football will be cancelled?  I just can't see it happening.  The numbers we are reaching are nowhere near what charts and studies showed.  Part of that is because social distancing has worked but part of that is also that many of the predictions just haven't happened.  We need to reach a point where if you fear you will be infected then you stay home.  I'm sorry if that sounds ignorant but we must move forward as a society.  We can't just have our government keep approving billion and trillion dollar handouts (a lot of the money going to the wrong places to begin with).  We can't accept this as a new normal as so many are trying to push.  I fear that there's a lot of people in power who would like to see this as the new normal however.

Not just sports but events have to go on unless you want to see the entertainment culture we all love go away for good.  Taking away even one years worth of revenue brought in by college football would be devastating for universities.  Many of our events we love to go to....fairs, concerts, car shows you name it don't have the operating budget to just stop one year and pick up where they left off.  

Without getting the blog off track, I think we need far more testing than is currently available.  Even then, it's a highly contagious disease that causes the hospitalization of a significant percentage of the people that contract it.  So you could have a spike in cases that just derails the college football season.