On 4/27/2020 at 1:27 AM, bpac55 said:

Cost is irrelevant if you ask me.  Howie does one thing well and that's the cap.  If they paid Flacco $10 million to back-up Carson and used the 2nd rounder to move up for Lamb or stay put and draft Mims, Chinn, name your prospect I would be totally on board.  It's not our money, use it to make the team better.  I would rather waste cap space on a 1-year 2nd string quarterback instead of using a highly valuable 2nd round pick on a player we hope never plays.

I wasn't made they paid Chase Daniel $10 million.  Wasn't mad they paid Foles however much he got.  

Agree, Sudfeld hasn't shown a thing, just looking at what's been given to us in form of coach speak and how much they like him.

I feel you, it would be terrible that they would waste draft capital to make up for poor salary cap management but I will take that any day over fear of Wentz pulling a Luck. Very head scratching move that we’ll figure out in a few seasons

 

15 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Have an honorary patch if you want to wear 20 

It wouldnt look right seeing someone else on the field wearing Dawks number.

Just a thought here since we are in a lull and have plenty of time now to toss ideas around and have conversations.  The Eagles drafted 2 players who easily could be swing tackles and Prince potentially a starter.  It looks like Mailata is on the outside looking in.  The guy is still a massive athletic freak.  They have invested a ton of time developing him at tackle.  Prince and Driscoll in my mind come in with the clear advantage over him despite Mailata being in the system.

With all that being said, would be make any sense to try Mailata at DT or DE?  Does anchoring as a tackle put more pressure on a back or does exploding out of a d-line stance?

Just a wild thought trying to pass the time.  I love his athletic ability and his drive but it seems the numbers and inexperience might catch up to him.  Maybe defense could help him get on the field.  He would still have reads and assignments but much easier to see ball get ball then it is to stop Chase Young.

8 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

It's always the "opportunity lost" rationale; what I really dislike is for the next 3 years having to read the endless "we should have taken ______ , and then rambling off five different players.  That's not how it works; you get ONE pick.  All of those posts should have a prerequisite showing where they posted before the draft the one particular pick they would have made.

This is the argument I have made for years. The reality is, there's probably a 99% chance that there will be a player picked AFTER you pick your guy who will end up being the better player.  So looking at the list of drafted players a couple years later and identifying who turned out better is a pointless endeavor. It's incredibly easy to do.

I just to go nuts when fans used to argue about the Brandon Graham pick that the Eagles should have taken "Earl Thomas or Jason Pierre-Paul". I'd say, "Which one? You can't pick both. Make a choice and stick to it for the rest of your life".  But no, they always preferred to hedge their bets and try to take both sides of the argument. 

5 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

It wouldnt look right seeing someone else on the field wearing Dawks number.

I think we would get over it.  For goodness sake they gave Rudy Ford Westbrooks number.  

5 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

This is the argument I have made for years. The reality is, there's probably a 99% chance that there will be a player picked AFTER you pick your guy who will end up being the better player.  So looking at the list of drafted players a couple years later and identifying who turned out better is a pointless endeavor. It's incredibly easy to do.

I just to go nuts when fans used to argue about the Brandon Graham pick that the Eagles should have taken "Earl Thomas or Jason Pierre-Paul". I'd say, "Which one? You can't pick both. Make a choice and stick to it for the rest of your life".  But no, they always preferred to hedge their bets and try to take both sides of the argument. 

And that's the luxury of being a fan, and not a GM.  Its easy to say that you had five guys after a given pick that you'd have preferred to player X.  Then, when any of those 5 show any promise, Boom... CYA.  And the team has to pick the one guy that outproduces all the others, or else the team is wrong and the couch GM wins.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think we would get over it.  For goodness sake they gave Rudy Ford Westbrooks number.  

You say that like Brian Westbrook is at the same level of Brian Dawkins...  He's not.

5 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Accuracy is not an issue with Hurts. Worst year, he was 60% passer in the SEC as a sophomore.  As a back up/relief player in 2018, he was at 72%.  Last year in Lincoln Riley’s pass happy offense, he was close to 70%. Better than Kyler Murray and nipping at the heals of Baker Mayfield.  Do you watch college football at all?  
 

The main thing I can complain about with Hurts is he trusts his feet so much that he tends too much to a one read and run.   Now that is not to say he locks on to a single receiver, he really doesn’t lock in.  He makes a quick decision if the route is open and runs.  In Riley’s offense the QB can usually see two receivers in a look.  That said, you don’t see him read the other areas as much as I would like. 

Do you remember when McNabb was drafted out of Syracuse, he ran an option system that had him only looking at half the field, then pulling it down.

Hurts was probably told to go through his reads, then at 3 Mississippi, take off and run, because he was the best RB on Oklahoma, and by then the LBs had cleared out and he had lots of room to pick up yardage. So it's very possible this was more a matter of coaching than Hurts - because Alabama ran a more conventional offense when he was the QB.

If I remember, Doug was the starting QB when McNabb was drafted, he might be recycling the Andy playbook here.

McNabb had a stronger arm than Hurts (stronger than almost any QB), but Hurts comes out of college with far better credentials, he's played Championship football at two different programs with two different schemes, and it wasn't like he was benched in Alabama for a meh QB, Tua went #5 even with his injury concerns.

Don't listen to them. If "they" hate him, you can pretty much guarantee he's going to be an All Pro in this league. 

For god's sake , it's not like the pick was Todd Pinkston.  Every year they find somebody to be miserable about. Live long enough, they'll say we never even won the Super Bowl . Some of them already have tried to devalue it. 

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Looking at KR and PR options added on draft weekend.

Killins returned kicks, but not punts.

Warren II returned kicks as a freshman. 

Quez returned kicks and punts. Best PR average in 3 years was 9.9

Hightower returned kicks only.

Reagor returned punts extremely well and very few kicks. 

Grayland Arnold returned punts. 

Elijah Riley returned 3 punts

Manasseh Bailey returned 3 punts and 17 kicks

Dont know about Prince Smith.

 

Id love to see Killins do both. 

It looks like Reagor had by far the best PR average. A disgusting 20 yards per PR. Hightower had the best KR average with over 23 yards for his career and a season over 24. Killins did have 1 season of 25 per KR but a lower career average than Hightower.

We have so many options it wont even be possible to try them all in just 4 pre-season games. 

 

 

Ward returned punts, Scott returned kicks, Marcus Green was a phenomenal KOR.  If we ever get camp and ever get any STs film, it should be fun to watch. 

Can you imagine a formation with Boston Scott, Jalen Reagor, DeSean Jackson, Miles Sanders, Zach Ertz AND Alshon Jeffrey on the field? 

For god's sake we could bubble screen to ANYBODY and score from ANYWHERE. 

I'm being silly of course but just do that with both Hurts and Wentz Kelce Lane & Brooks.

They won't have any idea how to cover it. 

 

34 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And that's the luxury of being a fan, and not a GM.  Its easy to say that you had five guys after a given pick that you'd have preferred to player X.  Then, when any of those 5 show any promise, Boom... CYA.  And the team has to pick the one guy that outproduces all the others, or else the team is wrong and the couch GM wins.

You say that like Brian Westbrook is at the same level of Brian Dawkins...  He's not.

Not at all on the same level but considering they haven't issued Shady's #25 since he's been gone but they give 36 to scrubs it's strange.  Dawk is an All-Timer, probably the best Eagle ever no question about it.  Just stating that the guy who some argue is the teams best running back has his number handed out is odd looking.

Or imagine this . 2nd and SIX from your own 24. You run DeSean Long on the Left side. Reagor runs a skinny post he turns into a fly on the right. 

And Ertz just basically does what he always does and waltzes down the middle of the field for 30. 

 

ALL DAY LONG

And if they try to collapse down, Over the top. This kid Reagor's the real deal. If DeSean can play, We're going to make KC look like a bunch of plodders. 

33 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Just a thought here since we are in a lull and have plenty of time now to toss ideas around and have conversations.  The Eagles drafted 2 players who easily could be swing tackles and Prince potentially a starter.  It looks like Mailata is on the outside looking in.  The guy is still a massive athletic freak.  They have invested a ton of time developing him at tackle.  Prince and Driscoll in my mind come in with the clear advantage over him despite Mailata being in the system.

With all that being said, would be make any sense to try Mailata at DT or DE?  Does anchoring as a tackle put more pressure on a back or does exploding out of a d-line stance?

Just a wild thought trying to pass the time.  I love his athletic ability and his drive but it seems the numbers and inexperience might catch up to him.  Maybe defense could help him get on the field.  He would still have reads and assignments but much easier to see ball get ball then it is to stop Chase Young.

Mailata was born to play LT.

Don’t move him. Like, at all. If he had been born in the US he almost certainly would have been the #1 OL recruit in the country and a top 3 pick. His physical gifts are that good for the position.

He’s never played the sport before, but his body type and athletic traits are EXACTLY what you want in a LT. Like, if you could genetically engineer a LT, I’m not sure you could build a better athlete for the position.

The entire plan from the get go was to take long view because the upside is just so great. This was never a pick that would return quick gains. Patience is the key.

We can carry 9 or even 10 OL and I would move Driscoll to C. Leave Mailata at LT. Let Stoutland do his thing. He’s the best OL coach in the NFL. Jordan needs coaching, and a lot of it, but that’s what what Stoutland is here to do. Let’s see this project through.

1 hour ago, schuy7 said:

They've been very good for day 3 picks IMO.

I’m not evaluating them as picks.  It’s been my theory for a while that the secondary picks have been fine; the problem has been the coaching.  I think every db draft pick has basically regressed or been mismanaged here.  You can include Darby in that group too.

Just now, eagle45 said:

I’m not evaluating them as picks.  It’s been my theory for a while that the secondary picks have been fine; the problem has been the coaching.  I think every db draft pick has basically regressed or been mismanaged here.

Cory Undlin was the problem. He might have been the worst position coach on staff; even worse than the WR coaches.

Just now, eagle45 said:

I’m not evaluating them as picks.  It’s been my theory for a while that the secondary picks have been fine; the problem has been the coaching.  I think every db draft pick has basically regressed or been mismanaged here.

Oh, I know you're not. I'm saying the coaches have done a good job with them (Mills and Maddox) considering the production they have given us relative to where they were drafted.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Cory Undlin was the problem. He might have been the worst position coach on staff; even worse than the WR coaches.

I always thought the secondary coaching was the problem, not the picks.  And the WR picks were the problem, not the coaches. JMO

With that said, Sidney Jones supposedly has a very good skill set and he has looked shaky 99% of the time out there. And WRs run by our DBs way too easily... so I'm hardly behind the coaching.

Hopefully, Marquand Manuel can help the young corners improve.

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

He could beat press coverage and physical coverage. 

I agree with your overarching point about X and Z becoming more blurry, but if you’re saying someone is more X than Z, the difference better be the ability to beat press. 

I think beating the press is overstated when it comes to the NFL.   You have five yards where you can touch a WR. I would argue Greg Ward was as effective as an X as JJAW was last year.  Thing is, if you are going to press, you better hit them. Easier on a JJAW or Jeffery than a quick WR or fast one, if they have good feints.  Watch film of Ward last season versus his first season here.  He has developed some of those.  Stutter step (Lamb does that really well but sometimes for a bit too long), body lean when your feet are going the opposite direction (Reagor has a superior shoulder feint.). Sure, Jeffery pushes through with his size and strength. JJAW tried that and it didn’t work. Maybe he comes back stronger but what I hope is  he uses that basketball approach he has for shoulder rolls, bounce leans, back steps, feint steps (short step,left, stride right). Etc.   Too long, the Eagles X have preferred to try to bully through press. Most times it delays the route and throw.  Contributed to the low yard to target for Wentz last year.  Now an Ertz because of his weight difference can muscle the DB to five yards and then cut.   Doesn’t work as well with a 220 WR on a 200 CB. I say let Diggs press Reagor. He will win some but when those feints and jukes work, which will be more than not, I think, Diggs is toast.  Doesn’t mirror well, doesn’t change direction well and lacks makeup speed.  I am not saying don’t have any big receivers but there is more than one way to beat NFL press and unlike college, the grabbing and bump and run doesn’t avoid the flag.  

I forgot to add Barron, Ogletree, Lee, or Bucannon to my list of guys we were supposed to sign at 4pm today.

So, one of them, Amukamara, and Griffen. 

Super bowl. 

Still can't wrap my head around the Hurts pick.

Can't understand it at all. I get valuing the backup QB position, but he's a project, in the 2nd.

Then Howie talks about only using a 3rd on the LB because they see him as a starter. 

Hurts is dynamic, but a bit of a project. This year could basically be a wash for most rookies so you used a 2nd round pick on a guy who might contribute a few plays a game or season unless Wentz goes down in 2021. And Hurts is nowhere near the QB Wentz is or what this offense typically requires.

Are they really going to use him as some wildcat gimmick Hill type and risk getting your backup injured in the process?

Overall I gave the draft a C. I like the moving around and value picks. 

Only Wallace and Reagor will contribute right away and Wallace may be more of STs like the LBs.

I liked the OL picks the most. Liked throwing darts at WR too. UDFA not bad as usual either.

Killins will be HE's new obsession who does awesome elsewhere. 

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I forgot to add Barron, Ogletree, Lee, or Bucannon to my list of guys we were supposed to sign at 4pm today.

So, one of them, Amukamara, and Griffen. 

Super bowl. 

Why do you want more bad linebackers?

I respect it. 

Just now, PrinceKelby said:

Still can't wrap my head around the Hurts pick.

Can't understand it at all. I get valuing the backup QB position, but he's a project, in the 2nd.

The Howie talks about only using a 3rd on the LB because they see him as a starter. 

Hurts is dynamic, but w bit of a project. This year could basically be a wash for most rookies so you used a 2nd round pick on a guy who might contribute a few plays a game or season unless Wentz goes down and Hurts is nowhere near the QB Wentz is or what this offense typically requires.

Are they really going to use him as some wildcat gimmick and ends get your backup getting injured doing so?

Overall I gave the draft a C. I like the moving around and value picks. 

Only Wallace and Reagor will contribute right away and Wallace may be more of STs like the LBs.

I liked the OL picks the most. Liked throwing darts at WR too. UDFA not bad as usual either.

Killins will be HE's new obsession who does awesome elsewhere. 

Im not really obsessed with Killins. Im just really intrigued by that speed for returns and maybe just a few passes a game. I think if he doesnt make it here its just because he is too small and may not make it anywhere. Im not ready to bet on him having a successful career here or elsewhere. 

Guys like Hightower and Quez Watkins were guys I discovered and was the first to bring to the EMB's attention. Pretty pumped to have gotten both. Especially Hightower. Though Im not really obsessed with them. They are mid-late round guys who may not hit. 

And I seem to be higher on Goodwin than most. It seems people question whether he is even good. I believe he is awesome.  Just needs to stay on the field. His speed just is not fair. But still not obsessed. I realize his last/only good/healthy season was 2017. Hes extremely unreliable. 

 

I dont really have an obsession with this class. A lot of guys I liked though. I think the one Ill be pulling for the hardest is Warren. I need him to make the team because we have no other back like him. Im not a Holyfield guy. And he is the one who will go do well elsewhere if we dont keep him. The skill he has translates to the NFL. As I have said, there were few RBs I wanted in this class compared to other years but he was one of them. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Why do you want more bad linebackers?

I respect it. 

They could use a vet in the group. And Barron as well as Bucannon are the exact type of LB the eagles have been trying to bring in. They are guys who have successfully made the transition from safety as undersized LBs before it became popular in the NFL.