1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I wanted lamb but i don’t think atlanta was in a position to trade down. They wanted a corner. The issue is i believe if atlanta trades back to 21 that the raiders at 19 would’ve taken aj terrell would likely was their best available corner on the board. Meanwhile. Think eagles would’ve gone lamb that Dallas was just as likely to take diggs at 17. I don’t believe they thought he’s reach 51 and they liked him enough to take him at 17 if lamb wasn’t there. Can say chaisson but i think it was just as likely they take diggs who some had as a first and some didn’t. So by 21 atlanta would’ve had to reach like the raiders did on the OSU Qb. 

really the eagles if they wanted to move up had to hope wirfs went earlier. So tampa bay at 14 didn’t have the OT in play. I think tampa at 14 if wirfs is gone by 12 would’ve wanted to trade back with how the board fell and that was your likely best spot to trade up. 

Hello common sense. People keep acting like all the Eagles had to do was make an offer to Atlanta that gave up proper value on the trade chart. It really didnt make sense for Atlanta to move down to 21 barring a gross overpay. It sucks that Dallas got Lamb but faulting the Eagles for that or trashing the Reagor pick and Hurts pick (even more) because "we could have gotten Lamb for 21 and 53" is a massively flawed argument.

1 minute ago, Khani1 said:

If we drafted Lamb, we wouldn't have two of Hightower/Watkins/Goodwin.

Says who?  They added those guys with Reagor.  You never know.   

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Agreed.  We were just rebutting your summary dismissal of college starts being relevant.

Right. I should walk that statement back. It matters in your QB evaluation. It doesn’t guarantee future success or speed of development. 

I suspect he will be the backup QB in 2021, but will he develop into the level of backup QB that doesn’t require another investment in a third QB? That’s not a given like people are assuming. 

 

Just now, ManuManu said:

Right. I should walk that statement back. It matters in your QB evaluation. It doesn’t guarantee future success or speed of development. 

I suspect he will be the backup QB in 2021, but will he develop into the level of backup QB that doesn’t require another investment in a third QB? That’s not a given like people are assuming. 

The FO may have boxed themselves into a corner with the QB factory statement.

Bringing in a vet in July/August would be an even harder sell.

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The FO may have boxed themselves into a corner with the QB factory statement.

Bringing in a vet in July/August would be an even harder sell.

I mean a year from now. I assume Sudfeld is the 2 this year. 

Interesting that they were cool one way or the other. They’re very different QB prospects. 

39 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

So happy to see someone like Ben Watson standing up for what is right.

https://theundefeated.com/features/benjamin-watson-after-what-we-saw-during-the-draft-we-need-that-change/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I don’t disagree with his argument but it is not as though the individuals with their jobs, regardless of race, didn’t put in the work to get where they are. Weidl is he only one on the Eagles I know of that got a foot in the door from a relationship and that was with Donahue. But then he put the work in to go from an intern to his current position. They all put in the work to get where they are.  Watson was well paid as an NFL TE.  The folks starting as graduate assistants and high school coaches, as interns as combine and regional scouts etc. are not making that sort of salary.  Many never make it.  Some rise higher through work more often than being a nephew of the GM.  There is some relationships.  Press Taylor has a brother in the business.  We have the Pagnetti brothers and Casey Weidl.  The Eagles promoted to lower level coaches to higher positions this year.  T. J. Pagnetti and Dino Vasso.  One white, one black.  Look at their biographies on PE.com, the expanded versions. Both put in the work a graduate assistants and lowest level professional assistants.  I am enthused by both.  T. J. Brings RPO understanding to the more traditional pro set that Duce and Stout have.   You folks have heard me talk about Dino.  He is going to raise a bunch of young Asantes.  Samuel was known for his film work. Dino breaks down film work.  To beat feints and jukes, a DB needs to watch film to identify tells.  Dino does that for them.   I like him a lot.  Even those that rise from the player ranks start low, whether it be Duce or Doug. Eagles don’t seem to discriminate on who they bring in as coaching interns each year.  It’s a process and that diversity is working up through the process.  But it is going to reflect the makeup of those that go through that process, not the makeup of players.  Based on what we saw in practice, there probably isn’t one of us that wouldn’t accept McCown or Peters back as assistant coaches.  McCown is building through the process.  He is coaching at a high school level.   Who knows if that is what JP wants. Not easy to go from a level where you are making hundreds of thousands or millions to making $35,000 and being away from your family constantly (scouts) or teaching PE and coaching HS players or even college players for the same amount.  But ultimately it should be like BPA.  It should be best person available  Mr. Watson should heed the words of Dr. King and not judge the GMs and Coaches as he did but:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

1 minute ago, T-1000 said:

Hello common sense. People keep acting like all the Eagles had to do was make an offer to Atlanta that gave up proper value on the trade chart. It really didnt make sense for Atlanta to move down to 21 barring a gross overpay. It sucks that Dallas got Lamb but faulting the Eagles for that or trashing the Reagor pick and Hurts pick (even more) because "we could have gotten Lamb for 21 and 53" is a massively flawed argument.

Yeah i didn’t mind the reagor pick. Frankly i knew they’d take him over jefferson for basically what the argument was on the board for about a month.  I like jefferson but i didn’t like jefferson for the eagles who needed a speed guy on the outside. Could jefferson do it at the nfl level? Won’t know til he does it but i think the eagles believe reagor was better suited than jefferson to do so. Heck it’s why I brought up 2018 reagor was better than jefferson when both played mainly outside. 

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Josh Adams was such an enigma.  ND/Stanford from 2017 was on last night and he was just so good in college. He wasn't bad here as a rookie FA.  Not sure what keeps him from being good. Is he too upright? Not enough wiggle?

Um... he wasn't good here as a rookie either.

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sir... that's an insult up with I shall not put!  

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

One frustrating aspect of the Hurts pick is that we likely won’t get much value out of him on 2020 unless we go the Taysom Hill route. With a weird offseason, I don’t think it’s realistic for him to be the backup. 

So the most realistic scenario is him being the backup in 2021. If he’s the true backup, can he still do the special package stuff? If so, is the risk for injury so high that we’d have to carry a third QB on the 53 (55?)? 

So let’s say he becomes the backup in 2021, that gives us three cheap years of backup QB play, assuming he actually develops. Doesn’t sound that bad. Maybe he balls out and we trade him. Maybe we get a comp 3. 

Now the downside. Let’s say with such a weird offseason he just doesn’t show well in 2020. Do we go after another backup QB? Do we re-sign Sudfeld?

I think people are taking for granted that Hurts will be the backup in 2021. He has to earn it, and it’s the hardest position in the NFL to develop. 

This is what I've been stating from the jump.

Project QB who struggles with "progressions and processing" isn't a backup for the offense as it's currently ran. Now, maybe they are revamping the offense to a more "QB move" scheme, which would make me feel a whole lot better about the pick. If they don't, how fast is this guy going to be able to pick up the offense and be ready if needed by 2021 with an already shortened off-season, and possible season, this year?

Odds are we are still going to need another Vet QB next year, like Suds is this year.

And like you, are you risking your backup with Taysom Hill packages? Probably not.

So they are either trying to develop a QB to trade in a period where contract time is shortened to develop him or they think he's "such a good guy and teammate" that he will be happy as a backup/gadget guy for longer than first contract?

I can't see either of those happening without a miracle.

You then are essentially taking a "value/luxury" pick with Wentz, Ertz, Cox, Lane, Kelce, all on the back end of there primes years and you used a 2nd round pick to help you build after them or to get an asset to do that?

It just makes so little sense to me.

54 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Spadaro basically alluded to that when he called in WIP during the draft.  Used the words, "That's a bunch of crap"...when asked about the Eagles trading up for Lamb.  He was pretty fired up and said, "Who said that?"  Did the Eagles say that?"  In reference to the Eagles wanting Lamb.  Basically saying the Eagles weren't targeting Lamb. 

Clueless Dave Spadaro?

44 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

That’s just stupid. I’m not fond of picking Hurts where we did and I’m a huge Wentz fan, but if Wentz gets hurt again, (knock on wood it doesn’t happen), and Hurts repeats what Foles did and we get another ring, so be it. 

You do understand the likelihood of Hurts doing what Foles did is literally near 0, right?

Foles was a vet who had bounced around the league, Hurts is still a project.

1 minute ago, greend said:

Clueless Dave Spadaro?

I wouldn’t say clueless. He just spits out what the eagles want him to say and the message they want out there. 

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And... that seems to happen frequently.  It almost seems like people are just wish-casting that he won't get hurt again in the next 4 years.  If/When he does, then we will find out the true value of the pick. 

 

(And soon, I'll be cast as someone that hates Wentz... 🙄  )

I don't think it's wish casting.  I think having a good back up is important.  Hurts isn't necessarily a good back up.  He's a developmental prospect at the position.  I think historically 2nd round picks have a 60% failure rate.  So keep in mind Hurts isn't a sure bet to fill the role we hope he fills.  The team could be in a worse position by not going after a more proven player at the position.  I mean Jameis Winston would have been a good back up.  Joe Flacco and Cam Newton are still available.  None of these players would have cost a pick.  They are all NFL QB's that can fill in and win games.  

11 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The FO may have boxed themselves into a corner with the QB factory statement.

Bringing in a vet in July/August would be an even harder sell.

They also do QB recycling.  

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I wouldn’t say clueless. He just spits out what the eagles want him to say and the message they want out there. 

I would and I just did.

Just now, NCiggles said:

I don't think it's wish casting.  I think having a good back up is important.  Hurts isn't necessarily a good back up.  He's a developmental prospect at the position.  I think historically 2nd round picks have a 60% failure rate.  So keep in mind Hurts isn't a sure bet to fill the role we hope he fills.  The team could be in a worse position by not going after a more proven player at the position.  I mean Jameis Winston would have been a good back up.  Joe Flacco and Cam Newton are still available.  None of these players would have cost a pick.  They are all NFL QB's that can fill in and win games.  

Of course.  No guarantee that Hurts is a good backup.   We will have to agree to disagree on Winston being a good backup.  He's not 'backup material', imo. Flacco is toasted and won't have the arm strength for the deep ball.   And I don't think Newton has the mentality for backup either.   And all of them would have cost $$$.  I get that this cost a pick and there's not a guarantee on his ability as a backup.  But, I'd take that gamble with a good guy like Hurts over Winston or Newton any day.  

1 minute ago, greend said:

I would and I just did.

Eh i wouldn’t. I think he’s a puppet for what the eagles want put out there. To the point he won’t say anything against what they want cause he probably fears they’d get rid of him because they basically would. 

27 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Baldinger honestly sounded angry and offended that the Eagles chose analytics and athletic traits over production. He came off as a total dinosaur.

There's a balance between analytics and workout warriors.

However, college production doesn't necessarily translate to the next level, lack of production is a red flag.

Howie didn't just focus on athleticism, he wanted guys with high motors who are coachable. But if they don't have instincts, not sure how much you can coach them up.

But with a guy like Taylor, you're betting that if he climbed the learning curve in college, he has the athleticism to keep on climbing. That's where work ethic comes into play.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Gibbs is a highly underrated genius HC and one that absolutely should be in the discussion for "GOAT".  Unlike most of these multi-championship coaches, Lombardi, Belicheck, Walsh, etc.   They all won with the same guy... Starr, Brady, Montana.  Meanwhile, Joe Gibbs won with: Joe Theismann, Doug Williams (though, Jay Schoeder also got starts that year, they were almost 'platooning'), and Mark Rypien.  

And Doug Williams is an amazing situation... NO ONE expected what he did in the Super Bowl (not due to his race, though I'm sure there were plenty of those)... the week before he had a 34% comp pct for 116 yards.  Then in the SB, he lights it up for 62%, 340 yards and 4 TDs.   

Gibbs did what so many other coaches have failed to do... he managed to re-define himself and his offense and team identity to match his players, rather than always trying to do it the other way.  Gibbs 3 Super Bowl victories, 3 different starting QBs.  I don't think there's another coach close to matching that.    A couple got to multiple championship games with different QBs, but they lost with those other QBs.

Check the WIP podcasts, its from Howie himself, in an interview with Reese.

He mentioned it again on an interview today.  clearly they looked into it, and even wanted to go that route.  But it was just too cost prohibitive so they went with their plan B - one which I think will net out as a pretty decent consolation prize. 

Our offense isn't going to be about any one player dominating, but finally - for the first time in a while - I like the total of the build.

27 minutes ago, RLC said:

I like the draft more after his comments

College starts is one of the best predictors of QB success.

Wonder why so many 4 year starting QB's bust in the NFL then?

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Eh i wouldn’t. I think he’s a puppet for what the eagles want put out there. To the point he won’t say anything against what they want cause he probably fears they’d get rid of him because they basically would. 

We established that already. And I would, so let's move on.

Another artifact behind the thought process.  Go to 13:50.

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Of course.  No guarantee that Hurts is a good backup.   We will have to agree to disagree on Winston being a good backup.  He's not 'backup material', imo. Flacco is toasted and won't have the arm strength for the deep ball.   And I don't think Newton has the mentality for backup either.   And all of them would have cost $$$.  I get that this cost a pick and there's not a guarantee on his ability as a backup.  But, I'd take that gamble with a good guy like Hurts over Winston or Newton any day.  

I'd take Newton if he wanted to be back-up. I wouldn't take Winston if he brought a 200 y.o. bottle of Scotch with him and Cuban cigars