3 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

It is.   It is Howie saying that he is not going to identify what value they had for Lamb or what might have been asked.  He is saying look at the trades above us.   Some of us have and concluded a trade does not seem to have been value viable.  He has just drafted a first round WR too.  Why do anything to curb Reagor’s excitement of being an Eagles or his ego but entertaining any hard suggestions that he was our second choice.  He is basically saying he is not saying either way if he wanted Lamb  or not.  What he has said is he targeted two WRs in the first round, one was gone but the other is now an Eagle.  That target could have been Ruggs as easily as Lamb.  Rumor was the Eagles were working on the eleventh pick.  There is a chance there was a trade in place but as with any draft, the trade was contingent on whether the player the Eagles targeted was available or the player(s) the Jets targeted weren’t. The latter was not the case and one pick later, the Raiders picked Ruggs.  Howie isn’t going to reveal anything more.  Doesn’t mean reporters won’t ask. 

 Now knowing the type of receiver the Eagles targeted in the draft, it isn’t a huge stretch to assume they had Ruggs ranked over Lamb.  As a matter of fact, I’d probably bet on it. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Anything Howie or any other Execs say about their draft is white noise.  

Sometimes. 

Atlanta has never traded down with Thomas Dimitroff. Putting aside how ridiculous that is, it's reasonable to think that Atlanta wanted to much to move down 5 spots. 

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

48 minutes ago, Mandrake_1971 said:

Count me in the minority possibly, but I think Desean will be huge this year, he will be healthy. 

I dont know whose decision it was last year not to get surgery immediately, but I hope our medical team is improved.

BTW I think Carson's first press conf (incl timing) will be telling on how he feels on theJalen Hurts pick...

It was Jackson's decision to not have the surgery. They didn't let us know for awhile there. Let us speculate for the entire season

6 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

So if DJax stays healthy, plays at least 13-14 games this year with decent numbers, will you be man enough to come back and eat crow? 
 

I worry about you if Jackson loses his speed and/or gets injured again. You seem to be his biggest fan.

39 minutes ago, TrotterIsGod said:

If the Eagles get healthy which I think they will , I'd be looking at the Rams, Falcons and Saints. But that's just me. 

 

 

Niners, Saints, Seattle

Just now, BigEFly said:

A+ hands?   Better than he was younger but still no better than A-  

I’ll take A- hands or whatever.  But combine that with exceptional ball-tracking ability and you have one of the best deep threats in the league.  I’m sure there’s a stat out there showing average target yards/range.  So if his average target range was (likely) much higher than average,   and he still only has a 3.6% drop rate, that’s pretty impressive, no? 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I’m not a Lamb fan anyway, so I don’t mind.

Ah, 2011.  The draft that got AR fired.  I don’t know if Howie or AR were responsible for it, but the resulting roster they had in 2012 is why AR got fired. 

They essentially went 1 out of 11 in picks.  They missed out completely in the first 3 rounds.  The best player they took in the top 4 picks was Casey Matthews.  

2 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

Here's the thing.  Jalen Hurts isn't nearly the QB that Wentz.  He's unlikely to reach Wentz's level.  He's marginally more athletic in terms of running but Wentz isn't a statue.  His arm is nowhere near Wentz's arm.  He's not going to be able to make the throws.  The biggest knock on Hurts is his processing speed. Wentz does an excellent job processing offenses and calling audibles at the line of scrimmage.  Their talent levels aren't close.  This isn't Mike Vick vs. Kevin Kolb.  No one, not one player is going to think Hurts is the better QB.  In a league where winning and production are first and foremost, no players are going to believe Hurts gives them a better chance.  

51 minutes ago, Mandrake_1971 said:

Count me in the minority possibly, but I think Desean will be huge this year, he will be healthy. 

I dont know whose decision it was last year not to get surgery immediately, but I hope our medical team is improved.

BTW I think Carson's first press conf (incl timing) will be telling on how he feels on theJalen Hurts pick...

Maybe I need a refresher course on my Sensitivity Training, but this is an aspect I think gets way too much narrative and I frankly couldn't care less about ..... Wentz isn't a 10-year-old

The guy just got a 4 year/$128M contract payday that hasn't even kicked in yet.  The organization just let the other #2 QB who has a statue in front of the stadium walk out the door, which made it pretty clear on their commitment to Wentz as their franchise QB

If I had to bet on how the conversation went when Howie called him to say they might draft Hurts, I seriously doubt Wentz cried "God NO, please don't" and burst into tears before Howie laughed and hung up the phone.  I'm pretty sure Wentz said something like "Yeah man, if he's there -- do it"

10 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

I honestly believe this whole Carson’s psyche thing is being so overblown. If he’s going to QB my team, I need him to be mentally strong. 
 

If he isn’t, that’s a red flag. By all accounts, Wentz is mentally strong enough to handle it thankfully

33 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I just don't see too many great outcomes from Desean playing a ton this year.  He's capable of highlight reel plays and blowing a game wide open (or getting you back into one).  I don't think that's going to be missing for Desean next year.  

As a bridge to the young guys adjusting to the NFL?  Perfect.

But if he surprises, plays 13-16 games with great numbers...then they are going to extend his deal and that's how we get burnt, Jeffery style.  That also means we aren't using our new additions much.

I want Desean to ensure a smooth transition, but transition is the key word.  We need to move on to the next generation of weapons.

I can't argue with that. I really want to though

31 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

It's hard to believe that that actually happened.

Yeah, on top of everything I think A/R just might be a bit 

23 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It was Jackson's decision to not have the surgery. They didn't let us know for awhile there. Let us speculate for the entire season

I worry about you if Jackson loses his speed and/or gets injured again. You seem to be his biggest fan.

Really, all we want is Jackson to have one more good season, meaning to me, he ays 75% of the games and all playoff games.  If he gets hurt again at least there is a back up plan this season, unlike last season.  But, if he plays, he makes the offense much much better.

As for last season, his medical choices are protected information so it's on us.  If we were frustrated we should have the  maturity to acknowledge that our own speculation and any ensuing angst around that is our responsibility.  Not a popular position, but it is true.

33 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

If you offered all 32 teams their choice of Wentz or Hurts, the decision would be Wentz 32 times.   Carson knows that and won't be mentally weak because the Eagles added a backup QB.

26 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Here's the thing.  Jalen Hurts isn't nearly the QB that Wentz.  He's unlikely to reach Wentz's level.  He's marginally more athletic in terms of running but Wentz isn't a statue.  His arm is nowhere near Wentz's arm.  He's not going to be able to make the throws.  The biggest knock on Hurts is his processing speed. Wentz does an excellent job processing offenses and calling audibles at the line of scrimmage.  Their talent levels aren't close.  This isn't Mike Vick vs. Kevin Kolb.  No one, not one player is going to think Hurts is the better QB.  In a league where winning and production are first and foremost, no players are going to believe Hurts gives them a better chance.  

Lol that wont stop the media and even a bunch in here calling for the backup after Wentz throws a pick or gets sacked

12 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

I agree a divided locker room is one of the dangers of having a quality back up, especially in a passionate sports market like philly which often overreacts to individual player struggle. Although I prefer to call it high standards. Even though I would have gone a different direction in round 2 I have come to terms with the Hurts pick, I am glad he is here as an insurance policy. But you bring up an interesting point, Hurts will have the mentality of a starter. He is an amazing team player and will selflessly play the back up role, but that doesn't mean he wont push for playing time. This may create locker room divides, but this team has dealt with that before and I want to play the devils advocate a bit...

While Hurts is pressing for playing time, he will be affecting more than just his own development because iron sharpens iron. He will be pushing Wentz to develop his game and hold Cason accountable for his performance. I remember Bill Walsh once said he (and Holmgrem) felt Steve Young had the talent to be an amazing starter, even while he was wasting away in the doldrums of Tampa. He cites this as one of the reasons he gave up the resources (rd 2 and 4) to get Young. He was fully aware that Young intended to be nothing less than a starter (Young actually despised the bench), and sold Steve on the idea because the niners were worried about Montana's history of back injuries. Essentially, Young was to be an awesome insurance policy. But the brilliant mind of Walsh also knew Joe and Steve were hyper competitive, and they would both constantly compete and push each other for the job; claiming that Steve would hold Joe accountable (slippery slope there Bill)...

This had 2 effects:

1. It created controversy, Walsh was almost fired after a 1988 early playoff exit for his indecisive QB management (both during the season and in the playoff game)

2. They made each other so much better, Montana had one of his best years winning NFL MVP in 1989, A year in which Young also threw for over 1,000 yards with a 70% completion rate.

I see Hurts as a safer version of Steve Young. Both because he is no Steve Young talent wise (yet? lol), and because he is far less egocentric playing wise (although he still maintains that starter mentality and fire). This whole situation is fraught with potential issues, but it is not without its silver linings.

36 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

I see that as less of a concern.  Hurts is a rookie who wasn't drafted in round 1.  Some might argue round 2 was early.  He knew he was being drafted into a backup role.  The age and quality of the incumbent QB may be a surprise, but he knew he wasn't starting.  By year 3 and 4, maybe he's frustrated without an opportunity.  Maybe he's traded by then.

My concern (amongst many other things) is how willingly he'll sacrifice his body and his identity as a QB as a gimmick in this offense...the risk/reward in that, in the big picture of his goal to be a starting QB, may not be great for Hurts.  He's going to be frustrated learning to line up as a RB, WR, catch passes, throw the football with one read vs tuck/run on trick plays, etc.

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Lol that wont stop the media and even a bunch in here calling for the backup after Wentz throws a pick or gets sacked

His point was that Hurts might try to win supporters in the locker room.  I don't think there is a player that's going to be rallied to that cause.  Stupidity reigns supreme in the philly media and sometimes it does here as well. 

 

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

His point was that Hurts might try to win supporters in the locker room.  I don't think there is a player that's going to be rallied to that cause.  Stupidity reigns supreme in the philly media and sometimes it does here as well. 

Because we've never seen an Eagles locker room divided into sides before...?

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

I see that as less of a concern.  Hurts is a rookie who wasn't drafted in round 1.  Some might argue round 2 was early.  He knew he was being drafted into a backup role.  The age and quality of the incumbent QB may be a surprise, but he knew he wasn't starting.  By year 3 and 4, maybe he's frustrated without an opportunity.  Maybe he's traded by then.

My concern (amongst many other things) is how willingly he'll sacrifice his body and his identity as a QB as a gimmick in this offense...the risk/reward in that, in the big picture of his goal to be a starting QB, may not be great for Hurts.  He's going to be frustrated learning to line up as a RB, WR, catch passes, throw the football with one read vs tuck/run on trick plays, etc.

This thought of him filling in some gimmick plays is stupid on so many levels.  First, there's no question it would impact his development.  Simply put he would have to focus less on playing QB and more on some trick plays.  Now one or two isn't going to be a problem but 10 to 15 a game is a lot.  Second, you are putting your backup QB, a position you have touted as being so important, at being almost as much at risk of injury as the starter.  So what happens if Hurts gets hurt and then Wentz goes down? It would make no sense to put him in repeated situations that increased that risk if you also want him to be the primary backup.  

I don’t like the player but that’s dirt cheap for an ok backup 

46 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

They essentially went 1 out of 11 in picks.  They missed out completely in the first 3 rounds.  The best player they took in the top 4 picks was Casey Matthews.  

From what i remember at that point howie was more involved and was setting the board and running the draft and Andy was the final say.

I remember multiple times Howie talking about how with increased picks increased probability of hitting on players.

Looking back though that draft was a disaster and really did lead to Reids down fall.

Interestingly his last draft brought Cox Kendricks curry and Foles all of which had a role in the super bowl.

 

2 hours ago, T-1000 said:

I think he cleared up the confusion. Atlanta didnt want to trade down. Makes perfect sense since they took a corner at 16 and teams picking 17 and 19 needed a corner.

Yeah I think that’s what people are missing is Atlanta really didn’t want to move out of 16. The Cowboys needed a cornerback.  So Atlanta probably thought cowboys were in a spot where they could take a corner and one goes off the board. And then at 19 the Raiders almost for sure would take an aj terrell because Mike mayock seems to take every Clemson player or player that played a big program. Because aj terrell wasn’t there they reach for the Ohio State corner who probably shouldn’t even been a first round pick. So I have to imagine Mike Mayock was going to take AJ Terrell if the Falcons moved back to 21. So that would’ve been possibly two corners off the board at 21 and they would’ve had to settle on a lower ranked corner or have to go into another position that they didn’t really love. So basically you were going to have to make Atlanta want to move and potentially missing out on their player so you were going to have to extremely overpaid just move up five slots. And that doesn’t even include them knowIng you don’t want him going to Dallas so they’re gonna make you overpaid to begin with
 

imo the best spot for the Eagles to trade up if it was going to happen was 14 with Tampa Bay. But because wirfs fell to 13 there was no way Tampa Bay was going to trade back when they really needed an offensive tackle. Once they moved up with the 49ers I don’t think the trade was really realistic. Because the Niners weren’t going to move down to 21 with kinlaw on the board

1 hour ago, Allhaildawk said:

How is saying what happened saying it will happen again?  Somebody won the lotto last night. Doesn’t mean I think it’s going to happen again. It’s just acknowledging reality

Normalizing THAT reality is my point.

Stacking the deck for that to conceivably happen again does absolutely nothing to help your best players now. When people throw out "we won a SB with a backup" is essentially expecting lightning to strike twice. That's still no reason to spend a 2nd on a project backup.

It makes zero sense in our current situation.

Now, had they made this pick coming off the SB, THAT would make a ton more sense, but they use a valuable pick on a backup, no matter the position, is a waste of resources for the immediate needs of this team.

It is going to do nothing to "help Carson" as Howie is trying to sell it.

What exactly is Hurts going to help him with in the QB room?

Especially with the weird times we live in limiting a players development there is no reason to use a pick like that there.

If it made any sense for him a more QB needy team would have taken him.

Just because someone wins the lotto doesn't mean you should take a ton of money you don't have and spend it on lotto tickets expecting you to win too.