preach, Kelby

56 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Eh...a guy who is 26, #1 overall pick talent, is a HIGHLY prolific passer even in the NFL, and has immaturity, interception, and decision-making problems?  That is not dreadful as a backup QB on a goo staff.

But he got lasik done!!!!

Went back and really thought about something. Some of my years might be off, so let me throw that out there now.

2005: McNabb gets hurt

2006: McNabb gets hurt

2007: McNabb gets hurt

2009: McNabb gets hurt

2010: Kolb gets hurt

2011: Vick gets hurt

2012: Vick gets hurt

2013: Vick gets hurt

2014: Foles gets hurt

2015: Bradford gets hurt

2016: Wentz gets hurt (albeit preseason only)

2017: Wentz gets hurt

2018: Wentz gets hurt

2019: Wentz gets hurt (albeit only misses the playoff game)

First and foremost, has any other franchise been this snake bitten with starting QBs getting hurt? Every single season our starter has gone down aside from 2008 since 2005. That's 14 of the last 15 seasons.

Secondly, when you lay it out, makes sense why the Eagles want a good backup that can stick around for a while. 

 

3 hours ago, greendestiny27 said:

Another thought on Hurts. He does not consider himself a back up. Will he be humble, a class act, consummate professional and a team player? Yes. But he’s not coming in with a back up mentality. He’s coming gunning for the starter position. Whether he gets it or not is irrelevant. That’s going to be his attitude. While doing so, he could also build fans of his own within that locker room, at least it’s possible and wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t know if that is the best thing for Carson’s psyche. A veteran that is set to be a back up I still feel was the way to go. Someone to help guide him and come in if needed to handle a few games. 

If Carson’s ego is hurt by competition then he isn’t really starting QB material. I am not worried about that at all. The people below me that didn’t want to target my job were our average performers.  I not only encouraged that competition, I mentored it.  Never lost a job I wanted but a few times I ended up working for a person I mentored.  One of those I had to mentor later on his management style. He was very intense which made him perfect for the position below me but hindered him when he managed people.  I hope Hurts keeps his intensity.  That’s what I worry about with Sudfeld and with Thorson.  Are they content with being back ups despite saying they want to lead teams?  Do you think Drew Brees is butthurt by the Winston and Hill signings? If Aaron Rodgers is butthurt by the Love drafting, he needs to consider his availability at this point.  If Carr is but hurt by the Mariota signing, well the way to cure that is to beat him out.  Tanehill did.

One thing that has generally been ignored, it's doubtful than ANY rookies will have a significant impact this season. This draft was really for 2021-22.

Reason - no mini-camps, and a crash training camp, where the emphasis will be to get veterans ready for this season.

While walk ins and practices without pads seem kinda meh, they're vital for helping rookies integrate their new playbook and schemes before they get to camp. We've seen late graduates who miss these practices struggle in training camp for that reason. You can look at film all you want, but you don't develop "muscle memory" staring at a screen.

Then come training camp, coaches will focus on getting the veterans up to speed, not hand holding a bunch of confused rookies this year. Training camp will probably be a bit compressed with a late start, and some social distancing restrictions. So it's unlikely rookies will get the same quality of coaching as in a normal training camp. So Howie may have been drafting as much for an expanded practice squad as to win this season.

In that case, using a 2nd on Hurts makes more sense, if Fulton or Chinn or anyone else picked there is going to struggle this season, then the opportunity cost is less.

35 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

Sure, but my point is Suds is only making $2mil this year.

If they are some great developers of QBs, they wouldn't need to spend a 2nd and would have trusted Suds over McCown last year.

Now, if this was the same staff that won the SB, it would then make more sense as they actually DO have a track record of developing guys, Press Taylor? Not so much.

 

I don't disagree about Sudfeld.  All they do is try to replace him

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

One thing that has generally been ignored, it's doubtful than ANY rookies will have a significant impact this season. This draft was really for 2021-22.

Reason - no mini-camps, and a crash training camp, where the emphasis will be to get veterans ready for this season.

While walk ins and practices without pads seem kinda meh, they're vital for helping rookies integrate their new playbook and schemes before they get to camp. We've seen late graduates who miss these practices struggle in training camp for that reason. You can look at film all you want, but you don't develop "muscle memory" staring at a screen.

Then come training camp, coaches will focus on getting the veterans up to speed, not hand holding a bunch of confused rookies this year. Training camp will probably be a bit compressed with a late start, and some social distancing restrictions. So it's unlikely rookies will get the same quality of coaching as in a normal training camp. So Howie may have been drafting as much for an expanded practice squad as to win this season.

In that case, using a 2nd on Hurts makes more sense, if Fulton or Chinn or anyone else picked there is going to struggle this season, then the opportunity cost is less.

I couldn’t disagree more. If anything, you’re making a point on why you don’t draft a QB — the hardest position to learn. You’re wasting a year of a cost controlled BACKUP QB, a guy who if he’s any good will sign elsewhere to compete after three years of usefulness here. 

Hurts, if he’s any good, is going to be almost impossible to extend without giving up on Wentz. 

4 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

I don't disagree about Sudfeld.  All they do is try to replace him

and bravo; Sudfeld hasn’t even looked good in PS games I’ve seen him in.

Just now, ManuManu said:

I couldn’t disagree more. If anything, you’re making a point on why you don’t draft a QB — the hardest position to learn. You’re wasting a year of a cost controlled BACKUP QB, a guy who if he’s any good will sign elsewhere to compete after three years of usefulness here. 

I like Hurts, but this is good reason not to pick him. There's no way he backup Wentz this year. 
And if he plays meaningful snaps, we're basically running RPOs and 4 verts.

17 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

So add Ray Didinger to the list of those who aren't a fan of the Reagor or Hurts picks.  But if Baldinger is clueless because he wasn't a great player in the NFL.  Then how clueless is Didinger since he never played in the NFL?  

Re: Didinger, Ballinger, and all of them and us who have opinions: we are either right, wrong, or in the middle all of the time.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Hurts, if he’s any good, is going to be almost impossible to extend without giving up on Wentz. 

I don’t think Pederson or Roseman went into this with any intention of Hurts getting a second contract beyond the 4-year entry level deal, unless Wentz keeps getting injured every year.  Then giving up on Wentz wouldn’t be that outlandish 

37 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

Suds is making about the same as McCown. $2mil.

We have $20 mil in cap space.

A 2nd round pick is only making a shade under that.

Id rather have a guy actually playing on the field for the same money as Hurts is getting and signing a vet for $4 mil a season, double what Suds and McCown made is a drop in the bucket.

 

But then the QB factory wouldn't be stocked up.  What you wrote is what I think the majority of us are thinking.  A backup QB is not going to push them over the cap.  A 2nd round starter could help them in every game and then some.

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

One thing that has generally been ignored, it's doubtful than ANY rookies will have a significant impact this season. This draft was really for 2021-22.

Reason - no mini-camps, and a crash training camp, where the emphasis will be to get veterans ready for this season.

While walk ins and practices without pads seem kinda meh, they're vital for helping rookies integrate their new playbook and schemes before they get to camp. We've seen late graduates who miss these practices struggle in training camp for that reason. You can look at film all you want, but you don't develop "muscle memory" staring at a screen.

Then come training camp, coaches will focus on getting the veterans up to speed, not hand holding a bunch of confused rookies this year. Training camp will probably be a bit compressed with a late start, and some social distancing restrictions. So it's unlikely rookies will get the same quality of coaching as in a normal training camp. So Howie may have been drafting as much for an expanded practice squad as to win this season.

In that case, using a 2nd on Hurts makes more sense, if Fulton or Chinn or anyone else picked there is going to struggle this season, then the opportunity cost is less.

Not really. @ManuManu, myself and a couple others for weeks before the draft At the start of free agency have been saying that. We’ve talked about having no minicamps, no OTAs, shortened TC and potentially less preseason would hurt a lot of rookies. Add on expecting rookies to  hit the ground running is hard normally. You get wide variations from Jjaw to DK metcalf. From mclaurin to Isabella. From aj brown to Myles boykins. It’s an inexact science with normal offseason. Now missing most of the offseason programs it’s likely harder. Not just for hurts but all rookies. I suspect burrow struggles cause he’s a rookie but even more than i think he would’ve if he had a normal offseason. 

I generally agree with Sheil, but I think we just have to assume the Eagles value backup QB more than any other team and had a fairly high grade on him. 

I don’t think there has to be some sinister reasoning. Three straight seasons have been determined by a backup QB. 

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Hurts, if he’s any good, is going to be almost impossible to extend without giving up on Wentz. 

Yup not only is it spending a 2nd round pick on a player we hope never sees the field, he is also almost guaranteed to only be here for 3-4 years.  It still makes ZERO sense.  You can sign a vet backup every year and probably be OK.  

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I generally agree with Sheil, but I think we just have to assume the Eagles value backup QB more than any other team and had a fairly high grade on him. 

I don’t think there has to be some sinister reasoning. Three straight seasons have been determined by a backup QB. 

Sheil is one of my favorites. He had a bunch of good points. Like second and third round Qbs he posted the success rate of getting a backup or starter is at 29.2 percent. I’d like to know the numbers at other positions taken in rounds 2 or 3 and see the success rate of a backup or starter. 

also what i love about sheil he will take a quote and find what wasn’t there or not disclosed. The quote from Roseman about Telling wentz he was taking a QB. Well howie ever talked about wentz’s overall response and actions when told. Nothing about  wentz giving 100 approval of it or of anything to make the team better. 

14 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Yup not only is it spending a 2nd round pick on a player we hope never sees the field, he is also almost guaranteed to only be here for 3-4 years.  It still makes ZERO sense.  You can sign a vet backup every year and probably be OK.  

If he does see the field, he can be the difference between making the playoffs or not.   Can any other single player make that claim?

34 minutes ago, austinfan said:

One thing that has generally been ignored, it's doubtful than ANY rookies will have a significant impact this season. This draft was really for 2021-22.

Reason - no mini-camps, and a crash training camp, where the emphasis will be to get veterans ready for this season.

While walk ins and practices without pads seem kinda meh, they're vital for helping rookies integrate their new playbook and schemes before they get to camp. We've seen late graduates who miss these practices struggle in training camp for that reason. You can look at film all you want, but you don't develop "muscle memory" staring at a screen.

Then come training camp, coaches will focus on getting the veterans up to speed, not hand holding a bunch of confused rookies this year. Training camp will probably be a bit compressed with a late start, and some social distancing restrictions. So it's unlikely rookies will get the same quality of coaching as in a normal training camp. So Howie may have been drafting as much for an expanded practice squad as to win this season.

In that case, using a 2nd on Hurts makes more sense, if Fulton or Chinn or anyone else picked there is going to struggle this season, then the opportunity cost is less.

Then we're once again screwed at wide receiver

1 minute ago, Mortimer said:

If he does see the field, he can be the difference between making the playoffs or not.   Can any other single player make that claim?

Yes

The analysis of the Hurts pick is becoming beyond exhausting. It happened. Let’s hope Reagor and maybe one of these other receivers can plan as well as one of these LBers. 

1 minute ago, greend said:

Then we're once again screwed at wide receiver

I mean it kind of why manu was so passionate about getting a reliable WR in free agency. 

5 minutes ago, greend said:

Then we're once again screwed at wide receiver

Back to the PS guys

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I mean it kind of why manu was so passionate about getting a reliable WR in free agency. 

And there were a bunch of people trying to defend Howie for not going after anyone in FA and depending solely on the draft

5 minutes ago, greend said:

Yes

No player drafted last year was all the difference in a game.  Not even Sanders

8 minutes ago, Mortimer said:

If he does see the field, he can be the difference between making the playoffs or not.   Can any other single player make that claim?

Sure, every week in the NFL is unknown.  Miles Sanders could get hurt and maybe you have JK Dobbins sitting there and he goes on a tear.  I know QB is the most important position but look at the effect on a game when Lane Johnson doesn't play.