42 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Except almost no one is expecting Hurt to be the guy to rescue this team this season in any case. So the lack of TC has less impact on him.

For this season, it's Sudfeld or someone they sign (but who is worth signing?). If Hurts plays, it won't be until the end of the season.

The presumption was the opportunity cost was a player who could just step in, but if that's in doubt, then the opportunity cost was lower.

Which also may explain the Goodwin acquisition, Doug probably expects to start the season with JJAW, DJax and Ward, with Goodwin insurance for Djax, and Reagor gradually working his way into PT. Hightower and Watkins will be stashed on the bench or the PS as Reagor gets the lion's share of pre-season and practice time.

Won't surprise me if Howie adds a veteran or two before camp.

So we drafted a backup QB with the expectation that we were already going to waste 25 percent of his value?

The more ways that people try to explain away this pick, the less sense it makes. 

5 minutes ago, Maga301 said:

You people crack me up.

”he turns the ball over at a horrendous rate but he is starting caliber” 

😂

Nonetheless,  5000 yards and 30 tds are starting numbers.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

You’re comparing the Eagles, who clearly value to backup QB position, to teams that obviously don’t as much. 

Look at what the Eagles spent on Daniel and Foles. 

Isn't that the entire argument?  That the Eagles are overvaluing the backup QB position?

30 minutes ago, xBMTx said:

So the Saints nabbed a NFL starting caliber QB for their backup for $1 million while the Eagles wasted a 2nd round pick on a project QB to backup the backup QB. Smooth.

Winston isnt't the backup he's third string 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Isn't that the entire argument?  That the Eagles are overvaluing the backup QB position?

Sure, but I think we could all argue that other than the Ravens, the others are undervaluing the backup QB position. I only say Ravens because they require a very specific style of QB and there aren’t a lot of those types. Griffin fits quite well. 

 

4 hours ago, Mortimer said:

If he does see the field, he can be the difference between making the playoffs or not.   Can any other single player make that claim?

Over a LB, WR, S, or CB who would be playing on STs and in more packages with a 1000% more probability to earn a starting job NOT due to injury?

Just wow.

7 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Not today, that is correct. 

Right and that's not for lack of need at QB. There were plenty of teams with decent rosters that needed a new QB but went elsewhere. Not including TB  I can think of the Pats, Colts, Panthers, Jags, Chargers.  None of them wanted him even as a placeholder. 

Just now, MediterraneanDiet said:

Nonetheless,  5000 yards and 30 tds are starting numbers.

I can’t say that 5,000 yards isn’t  impressive, but also look at what QBs have done under Bruce Arians air attack offense. Now 30 INTS is absolutely horrible, damn near two per game. That gets you fired and demoted quick in this league, which is what happened. Case Keenum lead the Vikings to the NFC championship game but is he a starting caliber QB?......Negative. 
 

Imagine a RB with 30 fumbles for the year, you think he would be considered starting caliber? 

 

I don't think other teams are undervaluing the backup QB. There are only so many good QBs to go around. How many QBs in the NFL today are capable of putting together a stretch to win a championship? Not very many. So it's just kind of funny to use such a premium resource like a 2nd round pick, to invest in a plan B. Once Wentz is hurt, a lot goes out the window already. I'd rather invest resources to help him. Get him weapons to get the ball out of his hands. Continue to invest in the OL. Although I will say the Eagles have had a lot of success with backup QBs over the last 20 years. Still, it's like catching lightning in a bottle.

Just now, ManuManu said:

So we drafted a backup QB with the expectation that we were already going to waste 25 percent of his value?

The more ways that people try to explain away this pick, the less sense it makes. 

I just hope he is good.  I was loosing my mind when they made the pick, but what the hell is my attitude now.  Now all I hope is he kicks a** repeatedly, and when we play Dallas he scores 5 TDs and all the announcers talk about is maybe the Boys should have drafted him rather than the DB that is getting shredded Reagor.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

So we drafted a backup QB with the expectation that we were already going to waste 25 percent of his value?

The more ways that people try to explain away this pick, the less sense it makes. 

Howie has now said 4-5 times he had to "protect the fans" and "protect the franchise."  I'm not sure what else he can say other than spell out that either he or coaches in the organization, or both, are not confident Wentz will be available to win games for this team in December and January each year.

The more this is analyzed and dissected into a million pieces, that's the increasingly apparent motivation here.  Not achieving some relative salary cap savings, not redefining the base offense with 2 QB's, not a develop and trade for ransom situation in 2 years.

This is Wentz insurance, end of story.  A little bit of a Taysom Hill role and the theoretical possibility of trading for value down the road are perks.  Wentz insurance is the reason they drafted him.

3 minutes ago, Maga301 said:

I can’t say that 5,000 yards isn’t  impressive, but also look at what QBs have done under Bruce Arians air attack offense. Now 30 INTS is absolutely horrible, damn near two per game. That gets you fired and demoted quick in this league, which is what happened. Case Keenum lead the Vikings to the NFC championship game but is he a starting caliber QB?......Negative. 
 

Imagine a RB with 30 fumbles for the year, you think he would be considered starting caliber? 

 

I think coaches think he is fixable and if they can cut the TOs by 50% they have a star.  And there are enough coaches that think they can do that.  Hence, starting caliber.

18 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

McCown's answer? Absolute money.

LEFKOE: What is Carson's mindset? And do fans need to worry about that?

MCCOWN: I don't think so, and here's why. You said it: I go back to the last four weeks of the season last year. When you can change the parts around you and continue to play at a high level, and your level even goes up? You know, 4,000 yards without a receiver going over 500 is incredible.

I just thought, down the stretch, he played at such a high level that his confidence is off the charts. It's a bummer how the playoff game worked out with the injury. But his mindset is - to bring in a second-round quarterback, I don't think that's a thing. Because he's in such a different place, because of where he took the guys. 

And then you look at, 'Okay, last year we took a relative group of unknowns and we made our way into the playoffs. Now we've drafted some guys that are 4.3 guys, we added Goodwin.' All this stuff, we're going, 'Okay Carson, if you can work that magic you did for the last four weeks, what can you do with these guys?'

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/josh-mccown-defends-carson-wentz-eagles-jalen-hurts-pick

McCown is such a freaking pro, man. Would love to have him back next year in some capacity.

Let me start with -- after digesting it for days, I still think it was a bad pick to use a 2nd rounder on Hurts. Taysom Hill on steroids or not, I can't get over the opportunity cost of passing on someone who could be more consequential over the next 4 years than someone we hope never plays a meaningful snap. I would have gone Mims myself, but really anything other than QB. My issue isn't with Hurts, per se, but using that pick on a backup QB.

However, I will say that I have long been a big believer in having a mobile QB as the #2 on gameday. Backup QBs are getting limited to no reps all week, so you either need a vet who has been in the system forever (Koy Detmer), has seen it all (Josh McCown) or at least was once your starter (Foles/Vick under Chip). Otherwise, asking someone to come in cold off the bench and execute the gameplan when they haven't had meaningful reps in weeks is silliness. Basically, you are giving away that game, which is a big deal in a 16 game season. But having an athlete who can create with his legs as a backup means you can revert to more streetball, and unfamiliarity with the gameplan isn't as big a deal. Plus, the defense is likely not prepared for a scrambling QB. Think of Vick coming into the opener against the Packers in 2010 and almost leading us back -- the Packers defenders have admitted it was a disaster for them.

So I actually like the concept of Hurts as a backup QB, and I think he will be the #2 during the season. I just hate taking him in the 2nd round. 

7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Right and that's not for lack of need at QB. There were plenty of teams with decent rosters that needed a new QB but went elsewhere. Not including TB  I can think of the Pats, Colts, Panthers, Jags, Chargers.  None of them wanted him even as a placeholder. 

I guess Cam Newton isn't either.  Nor is Foles or Dalton.  

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Sure, but I think we could all argue that other than the Ravens, the others are undervaluing the backup QB position. I only say Ravens because they require a very specific style of QB and there aren’t a lot of those types. Griffin fits quite well. 

Those are the best teams in the NFL and, not coincidentally, generally draft quite well.  If you yank away one of their players drafted in round 2 from the last couple years and replace them with a solid backup QB, I don't think their coaches or fans would be very happy with you.

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Howie has now said 4-5 times he had to "protect the fans" and "protect the franchise."  I'm not sure what else he can say other than spell out that either he or coaches in the organization, or both, are not confident Wentz will be available to win games for this team in December and January each year.

The more this is analyzed and dissected into a million pieces, that's the increasingly apparent motivation here.  Not achieving some relative salary cap savings, not redefining the base offense with 2 QB's, not a develop and trade for ransom situation in 2 years.

This is Wentz insurance, end of story.  A little bit of a Taysom Hill role and the theoretical possibility of trading for value down the road are perks.  Wentz insurance is the reason they drafted him.

It is, and it's somewhat sensible. If you're Howie and you're evaluating the team over the last few seasons, one thing is very clear: Carson has been on the sideline to end each season. It would be hard to turn a blind eye to that when strategizing how to improve the team going forward. And I'm sure they believe they are able to win with a backup. They've done it before, and McCown had us in a very winnable game. Doug is a hell of a coach. His teams have been on their A game in every playoff game here. They want to be prepared in case Wentz isn't available.

Not saying I agree with the resource usage, but I do understand their thinking.

Just now, MediterraneanDiet said:

I guess Cam Newton isn't either.  Nor is Foles or Dalton.  

Newton got released later in the offseason after many of the jobs were filled, and Dalton requires a trade. Winston was available from the opening of free agency.

And for the record, I think the Newton is basically done. I wouldn't want him as my starter given the massive mismatch between ego and ability at this point.

2 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

I guess Cam Newton isn't either.  Nor is Foles or Dalton.  

Some debate on whether the bears will go with Foles over Trubiski. And I think Dalton needs a trade. Cam, nope. 

36 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Its interesting,  as one of the rubs is what it means for Carson, how he's viewed by the team, etc.  Imagine the stories if the Eagles sign Winston.  Though,  of course, it's laughable to think Winston would even consider backing up Wentz.  Backing up Brees who is 41 years old, about to retire, and is currently backed up by the 21 million dollar gadget QB, well, that is the definition of Winston betting on himself.   

Does anybody in here seriously think Winston would sign here or that the Eagles would want him?   I understand the argument, but to use Winston as the example is ridiculous.   

I would rather bring back McCown for $5M, then to give Winston $1M.

5 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

I think coaches think he is fixable and if they can cut the TOs by 50% they have a star.  And there are enough coaches that think they can do that.  Hence, starting caliber.

There’s enough coaches that think they can fix Winston? Then why did it take him so long to find a new home? Why did so many teams pass on him in FA?

Winston at the most was going to be signed as a backup, therefore he is not starting caliber. 

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Those are the best teams in the NFL and, not coincidentally, generally draft quite well.  If you yank away one of their players drafted in round 2 from the last couple years and replace them with a solid backup QB, I don't think their coaches or fans would be very happy with you.

Look, this isn’t mutually exclusive. I think the second round pick is too valuable to use on a backup QB, and I think those teams should value backup QB more. 

Look at the Saints, they paid Bridgewater $7.25M last year. They’re a good team you skipped past. Without Bridgewater, they likely miss the playoffs. 

new hightower vid

 

36 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Dude threw for 5000 yards and 30 tds.  He turns the ball over at a horrendous rate, but he is starting caliber.  

If he were viewed that way around the league... he'd have been signed by a team looking to have a QB competition.  He's viewed very much as damaged goods.