2 minutes ago, Maga301 said:

There’s enough coaches that think they can fix Winston? Then why did it take him so long to find a new home? Why did so many teams pass on him in FA?

Winston at the most was going to be signed as a backup, therefore he is not starting caliber. 

So all back ups aren't starting caliber?

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I would rather bring back McCown for $5M, then to give Winston $1M.

That’s nuts. Winston certainly has his deficiencies but he has a trillion times more upside than McCown. If you want a backup who can come in and win a football game or two, it’s easily Winston of those two. 

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I wasn't aware that teams across the league were busting their cap on backup QBs.

Chiefs backup QB has a $1.2m cap hit per year.  Saints now have a $1m hit from their backup.  49'ers $1m cap hit.  Ravens backup RGIII 2 years 4m total.  Seahawks 710k.  That covers most of the NFL's best teams right there.

I'd say the rationale that Hurts was drafted to save cap is complete and utter BS.

FWIW, if you believe Hill is the backup in NO he signed for $10 mil a year.

 

2 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

FWIW, if you believe Hill is the backup in NO he signed for $10 mil a year.

I was gonna mention that, but I kinda think it’s Winston with a decent amount of Hill. Kind of a platoon. 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If he were viewed that way around the league... he'd have been signed by a team looking to have a QB competition.  He's viewed very much as damaged goods.

Not disputing that, but so was Vick, so was Bradford, so was Foles.  And they all ended up starting.  

1 minute ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

So all back ups aren't starting caliber?

Dude no, why are you arguing a stupid case about Jameis F’in Winston just because he threw for 5,000 yards but threw 30 INTs? And had to sign for $1,000,000 just to get on a team?

Winston is not starting caliber. If he was he would be a starter, not a backup. 

 

15 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Those are the best teams in the NFL and, not coincidentally, generally draft quite well.  If you yank away one of their players drafted in round 2 from the last couple years and replace them with a solid backup QB, I don't think their coaches or fans would be very happy with you.

How many teams can you remember playing 3 straight years in playoff games having to rely on backup qbs?

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Howie has now said 4-5 times he had to "protect the fans" and "protect the franchise."  I'm not sure what else he can say other than spell out that either he or coaches in the organization, or both, are not confident Wentz will be available to win games for this team in December and January each year.

The more this is analyzed and dissected into a million pieces, that's the increasingly apparent motivation here.  Not achieving some relative salary cap savings, not redefining the base offense with 2 QB's, not a develop and trade for ransom situation in 2 years.

This is Wentz insurance, end of story.  A little bit of a Taysom Hill role and the theoretical possibility of trading for value down the road are perks.  Wentz insurance is the reason they drafted him.

Go back and look at McNabb's career, after his first three seasons, he was injured almost every year.

Wentz has missed 8 of 64 possible starts. Problem is he keeps missing the playoffs.

Longevity heroes:  Brees, Brady, Rivers, Eli, Big Ben, Peyton, Ryan, Wilson (next missed a game, so much for mobile QBs being vulnerable)

Durable:  Rodgers (12 seasons, missed 7 and 9 games two different years), Stafford (10 seasons, missed 13 and 8 games), Flacco (10 seasons through 32, missed 6 games one year,), Fitzpatrick, Dalton (missed games 3 of 9 seasons), Newton (missed 2 games 3 different seasons out of 8), Cousin (hasn't missed a game last 5 seasons), Carr (missed 1 game 2 of 6 seasons)

Fairly Durable:  Alex Smith (2 full seasons his first 7 years, then 6 straight)

Given Wentz''s frame and style of play, he's probably an above average risk until he learns to protect himself better.

Wilson has a RB's body, which may explain why he stays healthy (and good genes) with a similar style of play.

 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

I generally agree with Sheil, but I think we just have to assume the Eagles value backup QB more than any other team and had a fairly high grade on him. 

I don’t think there has to be some sinister reasoning. Three straight seasons have been determined by a backup QB. 

I think the bolded is the key point. I think that even those people who are negative about the pick would have been happy to select a quarterback with the 53rd pick if they had that player rated as the first player overall...or second...or fifth...or tenth...or fifteenth...or twentieth. There would eventually be a cutoff where they wouldn't be satisfied, but the fact that there would be some point of demarcation suggests that the pick made sense *IF* the grade on Hurts was high enough.  And for what it's worth, the list I was using throughout the draft had him rated in the top 45, which made me much more tolerant of the decision than I think most people were. Time will tell. At any rate, we should all root like hell that he plays great.

29 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

I don't think other teams are undervaluing the backup QB. There are only so many good QBs to go around. How many QBs in the NFL today are capable of putting together a stretch to win a championship? Not very many. So it's just kind of funny to use such a premium resource like a 2nd round pick, to invest in a plan B. Once Wentz is hurt, a lot goes out the window already. I'd rather invest resources to help him. Get him weapons to get the ball out of his hands. Continue to invest in the OL. Although I will say the Eagles have had a lot of success with backup QBs over the last 20 years. Still, it's like catching lightning in a bottle.

I think a lot of QBs simply don't get injured, which is why certain teams like the Saints are playoff contenders year after year.

In that case, a GM may role the dice and not invest in backup QBs. Which works until it doesn't (i.e. even Peyton eventually broke down).

The Eagles went from McNabb to Vick to Wentz, except for McNabb's first few years, how often did the Eagles starting QB start 16 games and the playoffs?

1 minute ago, Maga301 said:

Dude no, why are you arguing a stupid case about Jameis F’in Winston just because he threw for 5,000 yards but threw 30 INTs? And had to sign for $1,000,000 just to get on a team?

Winston is not starting caliber. If he was he would be a starter, not a backup. 

It's an entertaining and interesting argument.   He obviously has talent.  But you keep pounding this argument:  Only starting QBs are starting caliber.  How can you possibly defend that position?

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I think a lot of QBs simply don't get injured, which is why certain teams like the Saints are playoff contenders year after year.

In that case, a GM may role the dice and not invest in backup QBs. Which works until it doesn't (i.e. even Peyton eventually broke down).

The Eagles went from McNabb to Vick to Wentz, except for McNabb's first few years, how often did the Eagles starting QB start 16 games and the playoffs?

There's no doubt no one knows the value of a backup QB more than the Eagles/Eagles fans... even pre-Foles...

3 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

It's an entertaining and interesting argument.   He obviously has talent.  But you keep pounding this argument:  Only starting QBs are starting caliber.  How can you possibly defend that position?

I can see how you can dissect the whole starting caliber label, but the truth is this. Winston is no longer starting caliber, it happens to a lot of players, they get released, they get demoted, most likely due to poor play, just like Winston. 
 

And his chances of becoming a starting QB again unless it is due to injury, is very unlikely. 

 

I don't count last years injury. It was illegal and shouldn't have happened. Yes I'm still mad about it

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

I appreciate the kind words, though misplaced. I agree that we have to move on from Peters. Will Dillard be as good as Peters was, now or ever? No, but he has to play. And if not Dillard, then Mailata. Tega needs some time to get coached up. I can't see us carrying more than four tackles - Lane and three young guys - so there's no room for Peters. I put no stock in the blather Kempski and McLane put out about Dillard. I could be wrong, of course, but it smells like personal animosity to me. Kempski in particular can be a real wise a** and I can see players not liking him. Some of his stuff is pretty degrading.

When do you think they'll be done with Mailata experiment? Or do you think they'll continue to stash him on IR until he can be a backup. I figure they'll go for a center in next years draft. Don't know how next years draft will be with Oline?

55 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

McCown's answer? Absolute money.

LEFKOE: What is Carson's mindset? And do fans need to worry about that?

MCCOWN: I don't think so, and here's why. You said it: I go back to the last four weeks of the season last year. When you can change the parts around you and continue to play at a high level, and your level even goes up? You know, 4,000 yards without a receiver going over 500 is incredible.

I just thought, down the stretch, he played at such a high level that his confidence is off the charts. It's a bummer how the playoff game worked out with the injury. But his mindset is - to bring in a second-round quarterback, I don't think that's a thing. Because he's in such a different place, because of where he took the guys. 

And then you look at, 'Okay, last year we took a relative group of unknowns and we made our way into the playoffs. Now we've drafted some guys that are 4.3 guys, we added Goodwin.' All this stuff, we're going, 'Okay Carson, if you can work that magic you did for the last four weeks, what can you do with these guys?'

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/josh-mccown-defends-carson-wentz-eagles-jalen-hurts-pick

I feel like people are forgetting this tidbit. 

19 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

The secondary wasn't that good to begin with. I just hope Schwartz adjusts now that he has a player like Slay

 

2 minutes ago, Maga301 said:

I can see how you can dissect the whole starting caliber label, but the truth is this. Winston is no longer starting caliber, it happens to a lot of players, they get released, they get demoted, most likely due to poor play, just like Winston. 
 

And his chances of becoming a starting QB again unless it is due to injury, is very unlikely. 

I don't necessarily disagree that his chance to start again is dependent on other factors,  but if he does come in for Brees for 4 games and leads them to wins, throws 9 TDs (in that offense that is reasonable) with 3 picks and they win 3/4 games, he gets another chance either with them when Brees retires or another team.  

 

Anyone see that Orlovsky clip from today showing how he'd use Wentz and Hurts on a double RPO option? Umm.

 

 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

McCown's answer? Absolute money.

I refuse to believe Josh will just fade off into Eagles history books. Give this man a damn job.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I am a Wentz fan.  But to cite Bill Parcells loosely, if QB 2 is the 2nd most important player on your team, then you have a serious problem with QB1.

This is right up there with the most nonsensical posts.  Did Parcells say this before — or after — Jeff Hostetler won him a Super Bowl??

One more time, for those who are still shedding tears:

Dating back to 2005, the Eagles opening day starting quarterback has gone down in every single season aside from 2008. Carson Wentz has not thrown the last pass for the Eagles in three years.

Waahh, they used a second rounder to stabilize the QB position for the next four years! We could've drafted another JJaw with that pick! Waaaaahhhhh 😭😭😭

 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I am a Wentz fan.  But to cite Bill Parcells loosely, if QB 2 is the 2nd most important player on your team, then you have a serious problem with QB1.

Bill Parcells was at his best in the 80s. As you know, the nfl is way different. I still don’t like it but I’m coming around to the pick. It is what it is. 
 

Also... at no other point has there been this much overall depth at QB in the NFL so a player like Hurts I’m sure goes round 1 ten years ago.