4 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Didn't say that.  But knowing that Pederson is a QB whisperer and that he really liked Hurts coming out, I'd wager that Hurts will become a very capable backup within a year or two. 

What leads you to believe Doug is some QB whisperer? Suds, Thornson, Lauletta, 

I mean, just wow.

He has Wentz and Foles, who went to another team and dropped so how did his development go or did he just catch fire and now Doug is getting credit for winning the lottery as his standard for success now?

4 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Nah -- I believe Hurts could put pads on, walk onto a field and be better than any of those guys today.

The reason more of these older QBs are still on the market is because of the success these younger guys are having straight out of the box.  Darnold has been good enough to make a difference for the Jets, Josh Allen makes the Bills better than anyone they've had in years, Mayfield had a solid first year and would be good if he wasn't a complete tool, Kyler Murray was OROY, and Lamar Jackson already has an MVP trophy.  Even the Broncos were a lot better off with Drew Lock under center than Joe Flacco last year.

The success rate for these guys walking straight in is way higher than it was even 10-15 years ago.

Sorry, Ace. Got you mixed up with this guy.

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

2 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

What leads to believe Doug is some QB whisperer?

I mean, just wow.

He has Wentz and Foles, who went to another team and dropped so how did his development go or did he just catch fire and now Doug is getting credit for winning the lottery as his standard for success now?

Maybe the fact that Foles played so well under Pederson speaks to Pederson’s ability to get the best out of his QBs...

4 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

What leads to believe Doug is some QB whisperer?

I mean, just wow.

He has Wentz and Foles, who went to another team and dropped 

Exactly that.  The fact that he was able to tailor the offense around Foles and go on an historic playoff run and win the Super Bowl with him absolutely earns him that title.
 

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Exactly that.  The fact that he was able to tailor the offense around Foles and go on an historic playoff run and win the Super Bowl with him absolutely earns him that title:  Without question. 
 

Ok.

If that means he's some "QB whisperer" to you, by all means, be my guest.

 

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

Maybe the fact that Foles played so well under Pederson speaks to Pederson’s ability to get the best out of his QBs...

So explain Suds.

Been here for a few years and still gave the nod to McCown who had never played in the playoffs.

Explain Thornson pick and dump.

IMO, if you can only coach up talented high pick QBs you aren't a "QB whisperer".

Just now, PrinceKelby said:

Ok.

If that means he's some "QB whisperer to you" by all means, be my guest.

 

It’s not me that says it.  It’s the people around the team saying it, sports writers, etc.  Coming from the Andy Reid coaching tree, which is known for developing QB’s, Pederson has a reputation for being really good with QB’s.  I‘m sure it’s not the first time you’ve heard it. 

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Maybe the fact that Foles played so well under Pederson speaks to Pederson’s ability to get the best out of his QBs...

We couldn’t get it done in the red zone against Seattle, but considering the supporting cast and McCown and Sanders playing hurt, I thought Pederson called a heckuva game. 

We were 0-3 in the red zone, McCown took 6 sacks and Sanders dropped a perfectly called pass on fourth down that could have tied the game. 

The plays were there to be made. 

 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

It’s not me that says it.  It’s the people around the team saying it, sports writers, etc.  Coming from the Andy Reid coaching tree, which is known for developing QB’s, Pederson has a reputation for being really good with QB’s.  I‘m sure it’s not the first time you’ve heard it. 

Sure, but if Foles, who'd already shown NFL quality and Wentz are all he has to hang his hat on, that's not great, not enough to be considered a QB guru on par with AR.

Just because Doug coached with AR doesn't mean doesn't mean he is AR.

AR turned meh QBs into good backups who we were able to trade to other teams.

Foles and Wentz phenomenal year was also under the old regime of Flip, Reich, and Doug.

 

 

12 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

What leads to believe Doug is some QB whisperer?

I mean, just wow.

He has Wentz and Foles, who went to another team and dropped so how did his development go or did he just catch fire and now Doug is getting credit for winning the lottery as his standard for success now?

System and surrounding cast are crucial for a QB. 

Doug changed the offense on the fly and Foles, a streaky QB by nature, went on a heater. 

They both deserve all the credit in the world. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

We couldn’t get it done in the red zone against Seattle, but considering the supporting cast and McCown and Sanders playing hurt, I thought Pederson called a heckuva game. 

We were 0-3 in the red zone, McCown took 6 sacks and Sanders dropped a perfectly called pass on fourth down that could have tied the game. 

The plays were there to be made. 

Gameday calling is absolutely Doug's strength IMO.

He's opposite of AR in that regard, IMO.

But AR is so far beyond Doug in terms of QB development that it's not even close IMO.

People trying to compare them as anywhere similar is where I get lost.

 

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

System and surrounding cast are crucial for a QB. 

Doug changed the offense on the fly and Foles, a streaky QB by nature, went on a heater. 

They both deserve all the credit in the world. 

Changing up the game plan is a bit different from QB development, no?

I will bow to Doug being an amazing gameday caller and adjuster.

I think he's way above AR in that regard.

Just now, PrinceKelby said:

Changing up the game plan is a bit different from QB development, no?

I will now to Doug being an amazing gameday caller and adjuster.

I think he's way above AR in that regard.

I think it can be difficult to separate development from playcalling.

33 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

What makes the team better? 

Signing one of those guys on a short term deal at 6-8 mil per year or to have Hurts on a rookie contract for 4 years + 8 million in cap space (saved) to sign a free agent (in another position) each year for 4 years?

 

What makes the team better when?  This year or a couple of years down the line?

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think it can be difficult to separate development from playcalling.

I suppose it can.

I would consider it a bit different is all.

 

12 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

Sure, but if Foles, who'd already shown NFL quality and Wentz are all he has to hang his hat on, that's not great, not enough to be considered a QB guru on par with AR.

Just because Doug coached with AR doesn't mean doesn't mean he is AR.

AR turned meh QBs into good backups who we were able to trade to other teams.

Foles and Wentz phenomenal year was also under the old regime of Flip, Reich, and Doug.

 

 

Do you give credit to Andy Reid’s success with QB’s and list his assistant coaches like you do with Pederson?  Because if you do, Doug Pederson was his assistant for quite a while.   
 

Anyway, if you want to argue the point, take it to the dozens, if not hundreds, of people associated with the Eagles, Pederson, his QB’s that state that he’s very good with QB’s. 

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

What makes the team better when?  This year or a couple of years down the line?

Overall. 

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Do you give credit to Andy Reid’s success with QB’s and list his assistant coaches like you do with Pederson?  Because if you do, Doug Pederson was his assistant for quite a while.   
 

Anyway, if you want to argue the point, take it to the dozens, if not hundreds, of people associated with the Eagles, Pederson, his QB’s that state that he’s very good with QB’s. 

Overall. 

Ok, so you could put Alex Smith on his list?

Another 1st round pick?

It's ok to admit the coaching staff overall was far better then han now when our QBs were lights out.

I've never said Doug isn't good with QBs.

I just wouldn't consider someone having success with high picks as a QB guru is all.

We're basically arguing semantics, which is typical here. Lol

 

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

Overall. 

For one to two years the vet backups give us a much better chance to win the SB.  After that Hurts potential comes into play BUT I'm counting on having Wentz for 10 years and I don't buy into having two QBs on the field for more than a special play or two a game.

Just now, PrinceKelby said:

Ok, so you could put Alex Smith on his list?

Another 1st round pick?

 

?  Alex Smith actually did really well under Reid.   Probably was used to the maximum of his ability, tbh. 

Just now, DrPhilly said:

For one to two years the vet backups give us a much better chance to win the SB.  After that Hurts potential comes into play BUT I'm counting on having Wentz for 10 years and I don't buy into having two QBs on the field for more than a special play or two a game.

So you would rather have one of those guys (who haven’t done much recently, especially in terms of  playoffs) than Hurts + 6-8 million towards another player? 
 

I’d rather have Hurts + the 8 mil for another player but to each, his own. 

3 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

I suppose it can.

I would consider it a bit different is all.

 

I agree mostly. Development can be footwork, throwing mechanics, reading coverages, etc. 

But what might look like QB development, Mahomes is a great example, really is a coach seeing through the BS and scheming to a players’ strength and surrounding him with players that fit perfectly.

I’m not trying to say Reid didn’t develop Mahomes at all, but how much is it incredible talent paired with perfect playcalling and really good supporting cast?

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

So you would rather have one of those guys (who haven’t done much recently, especially in terms of  playoffs) than Hurts + 6-8 million towards another player? 
 

I’d rather have Hurts + the 8 mil for another player but to each, his own. 

For this year of course.  I want to win now.  We are in position.

Just now, ManuManu said:

I agree mostly. Development can be footwork, throwing mechanics, reading coverages, etc. 

But what might look like QB development, Mahomes is a great example, really is a coach seeing through the BS and scheming to a players’ strength and surrounding him with players that fit perfectly.

I’m not trying to say Reid didn’t develop Mahomes at all, but how much is it incredible talent paired with perfect playcalling and really good supporting cast?

All fair points.

I would say that's good coaching overall.

If you have a square peg to fit a round hole, you don't change the peg, you change the board.

I’ve read a lot that teams use their own 40 times. I can see that leading to some problems if you put much emphasis on that time. 

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’ve read a lot that teams use their own 40 times. I can see that leading to some problems if you put much emphasis on that time. 

Smart teams are ignoring workouts and focusing on metrics based on game film.

It's far more valuable to see how fast a guy gets deep in pads v how fast he runs in a straight line in shorts.

In the past, the technology wasn't there, but that's no excuse in 2020.

You want both abstract metrics and play against top players, but the later is a small sample, so the former provides a baseiline to compare to other players.

I'd want measurements of how fast he gets off the LOS to ten yards, and his top speed running a go route.