4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Smart teams are ignoring workouts and focusing on metrics based on game film.

It's far more valuable to see how fast a guy gets deep in pads v how fast he runs in a straight line in shorts.

In the past, the technology wasn't there, but that's no excuse in 2020.

You want both abstract metrics and play against top players, but the later is a small sample, so the former provides a baseiline to compare to other players.

I'd want measurements of how fast he gets off the LOS to ten yards, and his top speed running a go route.

Smart teams don’t ignore anything.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

First off you didn't understand my question.  You said there were other good options out there for backups.  I'm asking who?

In any case, this post surprises me.  To start, vets that get the boot from the starting role tend to tone down the bravado and they generally learn to accept more of a team type role.  They do that in varying amounts and I'd think Cam is still a bit of a risk but that's what all the evaluations are aiming to find out before you select one.  You figure out if the guy is going to do the job of the backup and not make waves.  Plenty of examples of where it worked out just fine.  You do your due diligence and get the right guy and he helps in the locker room and is there if and when you need him.

Hurts on the other hand has zero experience in the NFL, zero against the level of athleticism in the NFL, zero in working against a complex NFL D, zero against and NFL rush, zero with an NFL playbook, etc. etc.  He might (might) get some plays each game as the gadget 2nd QB on the field but that's it.  No way you're going to want him coming in to a 10-3 team in week 15 to become the starter to lead the team deep into the playoffs.  At that point you want Flacco (or whoever).

Kind of sheety to just dis what McCown did.  He tore his hammy early in that attempt.  Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't done that.

 

Anyway, I just quickly provided three examples.  My points stands and happy to look at a list of 5 or 6 (Andy Daulton?).  If you are looking for a guy who can come in at the end of the season and take the team thru to the Bowl (ala Foles, Hostettler) you don't want a rookie and especially not this year.  If you want someone who can develop in a few years and become the guy should Wentz deteriorate or have a career ending type injury then that's a different matter BUT that wasn't my scenario.

I apologize for missing the point of your question.   I don't think there are any good backup options available now.  As Afan said, most of them now are starting, due to the dearth of starting QBs.  

 

As for McCown, I didn't dis what he did, in no way shape or form.  But, there was a reason that McCown was retired.  His body wasn't capable of handling it anymore.  It was a cold day, he tried to open it up and do what he used to do, and his body said, "Heck, no!".  That's what happens with older QBs.  He came into the game cold, and his body wasn't ready for what he asked of it.  That's what happens with players in that age group.  There's no denying that.  So, my comments about McCown is about learning from history and recognizing that having an aged backup doesn't really leave you with a great insurance policy, especially in December/January.  Flacco is now 35 years old, and he was never the level of athlete that McCown was, so the likelihood that he'd be a better option, even though 5 years younger, is misguided.   

I agree that if not for the injury to McCown, it's very possible that the Eagles might have been able to pull off that win.  But, that's a woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Older players are more prone to those types of injuries, especially when thrown in to the game cold.  Gotta learn from past mistakes, rather than replicating them.  Bringing in Flacco, in my opinion, would be a reprise of a previous error.  I'm still struggling to understand why Sudfeld wasn't active for that game.  Was that one extra ST guy really the key?  I just don't see why they would go with only 2 QBs.  Its the playoffs.

So, bringing in a younger, more athletic backup shows me a new direction, a new thought process.  They won't run the same offense if Wentz goes down.  But, they didn't run the same offense when Foles came in either.  The big question is can they switch from one offense to the other on the fly, if necessary?  No way to know.

 

As for backups... Foles is the best backup in the NFL, hands down.  A lot of people keep thinking he's a starter, but he's proven that he's not.  Teddy Bridgewater, Jacoby Brissett, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Case Keenum, Tyrod Taylor... but unfortunately, none are available.

I think some folks have the misconception that Hurts being on the field 15 snaps means he gets the ball 15 times.  He’s more likely IMO to line up beside Wentz; he won’t line up at WR or slot, he would be in position to take a direct snap once or twice, but mostly to draw the attention of the defense so Doug can study how they react and devise progressions off of that.

My guess is he’d actually get the ball only enough to make the DC game plan for him each week.

1 hour ago, PrinceKelby said:

Sorry, Ace. Got you mixed up with this guy.

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

You’ve seen Newton, Flacco and Winston play recently, right?  Just making sure 

57 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Fans in the stands?   😬    Not sure how they can do that... but I'll wait to criticize until I see their plan.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Fans in the stands?   😬    Not sure how they can do that... but I'll wait to criticize until I see their plan.

I've thought about every other seat and maybe an empty row in between. Big problem is a lot of season ticket holders would be without their seats with that plan. 

Would you/ could you ask them to ne understanding during this time to seat them in different areas of the stadium to follow ther spacing plan?

Maybe we have too many season ticket holders and there wouldn't be enough seats with that plan. 

Could you release all seats to general public on first come first served basis for the year and ticket master only sells those seats which are properly spaced? Could you expect season ticket holders not to be pissed about losing their seats for a year? I think this is the most doable way but likely lots of upset ticket holders. 

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Fans in the stands?   😬    Not sure how they can do that... but I'll wait to criticize until I see their plan.

Seems to be hoping for the absolute best. Which is fine as long as you prepare for the worst. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I've thought about every other seat and maybe an empty row in between. Big problem is a lot of season ticket holders would be without their seats with that plan. 

Would you/ could you ask them to ne understanding during this time to seat them in different areas of the stadium to follow ther spacing plan?

Maybe we have too many season ticket holders and there wouldn't be enough seats with that plan. 

Could you release all seats to general public on first come first served basis for the year and ticket master only sells those seats which are properly spaced? Could you expect season ticket holders not to be pissed about losing their seats for a year? I think this is the most doable way but likely lots of upset ticket holders. 

Wouldn't even need it to be every other seat, but every other 'group'.   When I went to a game with my son, there's no point for us to sit in non-adjacent seats, because we live together.  

 

Just looks like a logistical nightmare.  

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Seems to be hoping for the absolute best. Which is fine as long as you prepare for the worst. 

Exactly.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think some folks have the misconception that Hurts being on the field 15 snaps means he gets the ball 15 times.  He’s more likely IMO to line up beside Wentz; he won’t line up at WR or slot, he would be in position to take a direct snap once or twice, but mostly to draw the attention of the defense so Doug can study how they react and devise progressions off of that.

My guess is he’d actually get the ball only enough to make the DC game plan for him each week.

Whatever their end goal is for this 2 QB system, it will probably take a few weeks, maybe even months, before it comes to fruition.

15 snaps is actually a lot.  Our first and second round picks are usually busts who don't play for 2 years, let alone rookies who are on the field for 15 snaps per week.  

I'm not saying it can't work...history is littered with inflexible minds who said creative things couldn't be done.  But there ARE major issues that need to be navigated.

1.  Even if this eventually matures into a great idea, there will be hiccups.  And early failure is still failure for a team that believes to be in the middle of its SB window.  The tolerance and patience to let this play out will be limited.  Immediate success is great, but still needs to prove durable as the league adjusts.

2.  What is Wentz doing on direct snaps to Hurts?  He's not going to be blocking or catching passes.  What is Hurts doing on direct snaps to Wentz?  If the possible outcomes of these plays are reviewed by the competition and become predictable, the Eagles could be functionally playing with 10 men on the field.  

3.  Who is coming off the field when Hurts goes on?  Are we going to take a WR or Goedert off the field, giving Wentz one less target so someone can stand next to him?  Is Sanders coming off, giving us an "empty" backfield with 2 QBs?  That's fine...I'm all for resting our young emerging RB.  But is Hurts going to be willing to pick up the blitz like a RB?  That's a big ask.  

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Could you release all seats to general public on first come first served basis for the year and ticket master only sells those seats which are properly spaced? Could you expect season ticket holders not to be pissed about losing their seats for a year? I think this is the most doable way but likely lots of upset ticket holders. 

There's no way in hell they would be able to enforce people to sit in properly spaced seats. And there's also no way the Eagles could tell me that I won't be able to use my seats this year. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I've thought about every other seat and maybe an empty row in between. Big problem is a lot of season ticket holders would be without their seats with that plan. 

Would you/ could you ask them to ne understanding during this time to seat them in different areas of the stadium to follow ther spacing plan?

Maybe we have too many season ticket holders and there wouldn't be enough seats with that plan. 

Could you release all seats to general public on first come first served basis for the year and ticket master only sells those seats which are properly spaced? Could you expect season ticket holders not to be pissed about losing their seats for a year? I think this is the most doable way but likely lots of upset ticket holders. 

I don’t think partial filling is a plausible solution. It sounds good in theory, but there’s no way to ensure people keeping enough distance coming in, going out, going to get a beer or a go to the bathroom etc.

In a normal situation, it’s almost impossible to walk around the linc at the beginning, halftime and end. Its inching forward while pushing through people, if you’re lucky. With a limited capacity I’d imagine it still would be pretty tight walking around the stadium. 

1 hour ago, PrinceKelby said:

Ok.

If that means he's some "QB whisperer" to you, by all means, be my guest.

 

So explain Suds.

Been here for a few years and still gave the nod to McCown who had never played in the playoffs.

Explain Thornson pick and dump.

IMO, if you can only coach up talented high pick QBs you aren't a "QB whisperer".

Pretty easy to explain. QB is the most demanding position in sports. Finding someone who is even capable of playing the position at a reasonably high level in the NFL is extremely rare, no matter how good you are as a coach.

Frankly, this is exactly why you take a QB so high. It’s precisely because finding a good one on the third day of the draft is so incredibly difficult. What makes a good coach is being able to get the best out of a player. But everyone’s best isn’t the same. Everyone’s best isn’t acceptable. There needs to be a base level of talent to coach into a good player.

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Wouldn't even need it to be every other seat, but every other 'group'.   When I went to a game with my son, there's no point for us to sit in non-adjacent seats, because we live together.  

 

Just looks like a logistical nightmare.  

Exactly.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Every other group is a good point. But Im thinking of the electronic ticket broker and I suspect itd be possible to program in to ticketmaster which seats to make available. And as such, youd be able to set it to every other seat, every other row. However you couldnt beforehand know how many groups, and how many people per group. So you couldnt pre-program such a setup.

 

16 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

There's no way in hell they would be able to enforce people to sit in properly spaced seats. And there's also no way the Eagles could tell me that I won't be able to use my seats this year. 

I sorta expect that kind of reaction from most season ticket holders. However, the choice would seem to be that or some similar plan to properly social distance the fans in the stands, or no fans at all. 

I would say just like everyone has had to deal with cancelled vacations, cancelled weddings, closed stores and restaurants temporarily youd have to pretty much tell the ticket holders, this is how it is for the season. 

Some good news.   Word is that my friend's daughter returned back a negative test.  They are still going to keep her in quarantine from the rest of the family as a precaution moving forward though.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Every other group is a good point. But Im thinking of the electronic ticket broker and I suspect itd be possible to program in to ticketmaster which seats to make available. And as such, youd be able to set it to every other seat, every other row. However you couldnt beforehand know how many groups, and how many people per group. So you couldnt pre-program such a setup.

 

Oh, its definitely a major major nightmare for logistics.  I just don't have a clue how they could do it.

Good coaches make their players better, but there's only so much you can do.
Is Nate Sudfeld a backup QB for another organization? Other than a couple of exceptions, no. Nick Mullins is only viable because of Kyle Shanahan, but Mullins' ceiling forced them to get Garappolo. That's why the Eagles take swings on talented, but flawed QBs. Aim for upside.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh, its definitely a major major nightmare for logistics.  I just don't have a clue how they could do it.

I was thinking about this like a week ago. 

My idea was the only thing I could come up with. Cancel season tickets for the year. Have ticketmaster sell select seats. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I was thinking about this like a week ago. 

My idea was the only thing I could come up with. Cancel season tickets for the year. Have ticketmaster sell select seats. 

All the ancillary activities associated with a live event are problematic as well: concession lineups, mass transit to/from events, even parking at venue creates clusters of people 

47 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I apologize for missing the point of your question.   I don't think there are any good backup options available now.  As Afan said, most of them now are starting, due to the dearth of starting QBs.  

 

As for McCown, I didn't dis what he did, in no way shape or form.  But, there was a reason that McCown was retired.  His body wasn't capable of handling it anymore.  It was a cold day, he tried to open it up and do what he used to do, and his body said, "Heck, no!".  That's what happens with older QBs.  He came into the game cold, and his body wasn't ready for what he asked of it.  That's what happens with players in that age group.  There's no denying that.  So, my comments about McCown is about learning from history and recognizing that having an aged backup doesn't really leave you with a great insurance policy, especially in December/January.  Flacco is now 35 years old, and he was never the level of athlete that McCown was, so the likelihood that he'd be a better option, even though 5 years younger, is misguided.   

I agree that if not for the injury to McCown, it's very possible that the Eagles might have been able to pull off that win.  But, that's a woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Older players are more prone to those types of injuries, especially when thrown in to the game cold.  Gotta learn from past mistakes, rather than replicating them.  Bringing in Flacco, in my opinion, would be a reprise of a previous error.  I'm still struggling to understand why Sudfeld wasn't active for that game.  Was that one extra ST guy really the key?  I just don't see why they would go with only 2 QBs.  Its the playoffs.

So, bringing in a younger, more athletic backup shows me a new direction, a new thought process.  They won't run the same offense if Wentz goes down.  But, they didn't run the same offense when Foles came in either.  The big question is can they switch from one offense to the other on the fly, if necessary?  No way to know.

 

As for backups... Foles is the best backup in the NFL, hands down.  A lot of people keep thinking he's a starter, but he's proven that he's not.  Teddy Bridgewater, Jacoby Brissett, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Case Keenum, Tyrod Taylor... but unfortunately, none are available.

There is always a shortage of QBs.  That's nothing new.  Having a good backup is a luxury and one the Eagles have prioritized now for many years.  Had we not had one in 2017 we wouldn't have won a SB.  A rookie wouldn't have gotten the job done.

I never said Flacco was a better option but he has won a SB.  He'd be an excellent guy to have hope in from the bench should it come to that.  A rookie with no NFL experience?  Not so much.  What previous error are you talking about?

I see the upside with another athlete and another potential good QB in the stables.  He just isn't going to bring home the bacon should Wentz go down late like Foles did.

 

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

All the ancillary activities associated with a live event are problematic as well: concession lineups, mass transit to/from events, even parking at venue creates clusters of people 

You got a lot less people in the stadium. Less than 50% with my plan. Concessions probably shouldnt be an issue. 2 plans that some engineer can figure out which is better. Better to keep them all open so they have a smaller line (with spacing between people between lines), or maybe open every other one so the lines cant get so long they are running in to each other.

Or, do you just have food and drink service in the sections all game long so no one has to crowd the concession area?

Same with the bathrooms. Probably cover every other urinal but have them all opened. 

No tailgating allowed? maybe.

No activities in headhouse plaza.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

There is always a shortage of QBs.  That's nothing new.  Having a good backup is a luxury and one the Eagles have prioritized now for many years.  Had we not had one in 2017 we wouldn't have won a SB.  A rookie wouldn't have gotten the job done.

I never said Flacco was a better option but he has won a SB.  He'd be an excellent guy to have hope in from the bench should it come to that.  A rookie with no NFL experience?  Not so much.  What previous error are you talking about?

I see the upside with another athlete and another potential good QB in the stables.  He just isn't going to bring home the bacon should Wentz go down late like Foles did.

 

The backup going on to win the Super Bowl isn't really the goal, as I see it.   The goal is to 'keep hope alive' until the starter returns, like Bridgewater did for the Saints, like Feeley did for the Eagles in 2002.  They aren't expected to win the SB, they are expected to 'maintain' until the starter can come back.  If the starter can't... well, then the season is likely lost.  Now... the previous error is forcing the really aged backup QB into that role.   I got it when Sudfeld broke his arm.  They needed someone that could learn the system fast and knew what it meant to be a backup.  When Sudfeld returned, I was surprised McCown remained the #2.   But, given that they likely had to promise McCown something to come out of retirement and the easy life he was set up for with a network job, but that still confuses me as to why Sudfeld wasn't active for the playoffs.  

 

So, the error is in bringing in Flacco.  You are right, he did win a Super Bowl.  But, that was a while ago, and he's aged a lot since then.  He's coming off a neck injury that ended his season last year, and a hip injury as well, I believe.  That's not the answer they are seeking at backup, if you ask me.  I believe Sudfeld is the #2 for 2020, and Hurts moves into that position for 2021.

51 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

You’ve seen Newton, Flacco and Winston play recently, right?  Just making sure 

Yes, all are more proven in the NFL than Hurts.

 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

The backup going on to win the Super Bowl isn't really the goal, as I see it.   The goal is to 'keep hope alive' until the starter returns, like Bridgewater did for the Saints, like Feeley did for the Eagles in 2002.  They aren't expected to win the SB, they are expected to 'maintain' until the starter can come back.  If the starter can't... well, then the season is likely lost.  Now... the previous error is forcing the really aged backup QB into that role.   I got it when Sudfeld broke his arm.  They needed someone that could learn the system fast and knew what it meant to be a backup.  When Sudfeld returned, I was surprised McCown remained the #2.   But, given that they likely had to promise McCown something to come out of retirement and the easy life he was set up for with a network job, but that still confuses me as to why Sudfeld wasn't active for the playoffs.  

 

So, the error is in bringing in Flacco.  You are right, he did win a Super Bowl.  But, that was a while ago, and he's aged a lot since then.  He's coming off a neck injury that ended his season last year, and a hip injury as well, I believe.  That's not the answer they are seeking at backup, if you ask me.  I believe Sudfeld is the #2 for 2020, and Hurts moves into that position for 2021.

You have a sample of one and Flacco isn’t that old for a QB. Plus plenty of older QBs have done just fine. 

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

You have a sample of one and Flacco isn’t that old for a QB. Plus plenty of older QBs have done just fine. 

Plenty of older QBs have done what exactly?  Flacco is 35 years old, that's not exactly young.  That's when most QBs are pushing hard on the retirement door.  And his neck injury was significant enough to end his season.   Interestingly enough, it was disc herniation.  Same injury that forced Manning out for a full year, when he got fusion surgery, and when he returned, he didn't have nearly the same zip on his throws.   Flacco might come back for 2020... but you think he'll have the same ability to throw?  I'm not sure.

 

We'll leave it here.  I don't see Flacco as an answer as a backup QB for this team in 2020.  You do.  Ok.  We'll see if any of the other 31 teams think Flacco is worth bringing in.