21 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

Eagles had a guy jump a fence and it ended it.

oh yeaaaah

20 minutes ago, PrinceKelby said:

I think I remember them saying as much last year to the media, IIRC.

They asked when JJAW would see the field and said he had to get down all WR positions first, or something to that nature.

Gotcha.  seems sort of crazy if thats the attitude they're taking but i guess stranger things have happened

 

 

Random question.   Sign Guy from the Vet...was he ever on the boards?

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Random question.   Sign Guy from the Vet...was he ever on the boards?

I don’t recall anyone ever claiming to be him. 

8 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

 

At least the Bears didn’t triple down with their bad decisions on Mitch 

46 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Found some articles/tweets to back up the "he isn’t playing because he’s an X” 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidetheiggles.com/2019/10/17/philadelphia-eagles-isnt-jj-arcega-whiteside-playing/amp

 

 

There are very many articles saying this.  

Of course, coaches lie, so it can be disputed on those grounds.  They could have just been making stuff up to protect them because they knew it would be a mess if he set foot on the field.

But the coaching staff went through the trouble to, at least publicly, state that they were trying to limit him at X to give him an easily digestible responsibility as a rookie.  So for him to say that he never knew where he'd play...I doubt the coaches are thrilled hearing that.

Learning a playbook isn't easy, no matter what school you went to.  But coaches, even mediocre ones, know how to simplify things for freshmen and rookies.  This isn't the first time they've been around this block with new players.  He just really, really struggled.

 

42 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Random question.   Sign Guy from the Vet...was he ever on the boards?

He didn't know how to spell properly, so he would have fit in here.

The issue with JJAW is the unfortunate collision of 2 problems.  Every player takes a certain amount of time to get comfortable and hit their stride.  JJAW is on the delayed developmental curve, as was Nelson Agholor.  

When DK Metcalf doesn't know what to do on a given play, Russel Wilson can tell him in the huddle to run a go-route, slant, whatever.  Before he masters the position, on certain routes, he'll have a chance to beat his man deep, or at least drag a safety over for help.

JJAW can't win a route or a matchup against a DB unless he is precise.  He needs to cut at the right spot, waste no steps, master his footwork, sink his shoulders and hips at the right point in his stride, etc.  

When you get a guy who lacks the movement talent to win a matchup who also mentally struggles with the finer adjustments, then you've got a non-viable player.

JJAW will get better, will calm down, and will learn this offense.  The question is if the juice is worth the squeeze.

5 hours ago, Utebird said:

Who knows.

Im assuming his agent or whoever felt it was more important for him to run fast bulked up to 189 then run faster at a much lower weight.

Be interesting to see what he would have run at 175lbs.

One can say he looks faster on tape than he did his combine time but also realize his game tape he was playing at about 15 lbs lighter. 

Whats he going to play at. Hes a 4.4 guy at 189 is he a 4.3 guy at 175?

And can he be effective at 175?

Honestly i dont care at what weight he plays at as long as he makes plays.

If hes more effective at 189 then cool.

Many great sprinters have higher BMI's relative to what you would think. Losing weight does not mean you'll be faster. Most great sprinters can squat near triple their bodyweight. The muscle and strength associated with the gains trumps losing weight

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

I don't take 40 times very seriously anymore.

What matters is game speed, and that's a number of different aspects, explosion off the LOS, speed into his cuts (a lot of fast straight line guys gear down to cut, which is a tell for the DB), and a second gear (you can have average long speed, but if you lull the DB into slowing down to run with you, if you have a second gear you can blow by him even if he can out run you in a race).

Too many wide receivers run an impressive 40 in shorts, yet telegraph their routes so the CB gives him a 5 yard cushion knowing if he slows down he's either going to make a cut (that you can jump) or lacks the second gear to get up to top speed quickly. That's why a lot of great 40 yard dash guys never make it in the NFL - they can't get separation on the field, they lack hands to snatch and can't "high point" the ball.

Meanwhile guys like Hopkins run a 4.50 in shorts. But they're legitimate 4.50 in pads and through their cuts, while some of the 4.35 guys run 4.50 in pads and 4.65 through their cuts.

40 times matter. So does having agility, the ability to decelerate, the ability to run routes. 

What you run at the combine is going to be pretty damn universal and accurate to what someone actually runs in a game with pads unless there are odd circumstances, possibly what happened with Reagor (who actually ran 4.39, his clock started early). 

What you're saying is there are more to 40 times which is right. But 40 times and speed does matter. 

10 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

He didn't know how to spell properly, so he would have fit in here.

he was beast?

 

10 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Many great sprinters have higher BMI's relative to what you would think. Losing weight does not mean you'll be faster. Most great sprinters can squat near triple their bodyweight. The muscle and strength associated with the gains trumps losing weight

This is true.  100m races don't have a lot of lanky contestants.  

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

This is true.  100m races don't have a lot of lanky contestants.  

Sprinting is all about increasing stride length and/or stride frequency. When you have an insane strength to size ratio, you're increasing the stride length 

10 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

40 times matter. So does having agility, the ability to decelerate, the ability to run routes. 

What you run at the combine is going to be pretty damn universal and accurate to what someone actually runs in a game with pads unless there are odd circumstances, possibly what happened with Reagor (who actually ran 4.39, his clock started early). 

What you're saying is there are more to 40 times which is right. But 40 times and speed does matter. 

Yup.  A guy lining up in a track stance that he will never line up in during a game, in shorts and a t-shirt, that he can start whenever the mood hits him, in a straight line, staring at the ground as he runs the first 10 yards.  Yeah, super important.  

Tell me: What was Jerry Rice's 40 time?  Larry Fitzgerald's?  What about Darrius Heyward Bey?

 

The Combine has elements that matter.  The 40 is the most over-rated portion of the Combine, but the most publicized.  

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  A guy lining up in a track stance that he will never line up in during a game, in shorts and a t-shirt, that he can start whenever the mood hits him, in a straight line, staring at the ground as he runs the first 10 yards.  Yeah, super important.  

Tell me: What was Jerry Rice's 40 time?  Larry Fitzgerald's?  What about Darrius Heyward Bey?

 

The Combine has elements that matter.  The 40 is the most over-rated portion of the Combine, but the most publicized.  

This is such a terrible take. It's so elementary that I'm not going into detail.

Let's just draft 4.7 WRs from now on. We did so great last year throwing down the field. 40 times don't matter. Just ask the Chiefs

19 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

This is such a terrible take. It's so elementary that I'm not going into detail.

Let's just draft 4.7 WRs from now on. We did so great last year throwing down the field. 40 times don't matter. Just ask the Chiefs

Nah, its not a terrible take, but your takeaway from it was pretty poor.   Game tape speed matters.  How fast a guy is in shorts is irrelevant.   What matters is how that speed translates to the field.  

You built a nice straw man there though.  I'm not pushing for drafting 'slow' WRs, but I'm going to watch the games and see that speed on the field.  With technology today, you can learn true speed from the game film, the 40 is pretty worthless now.  Reagor, in real data, timed at a higher speed in a game than anyone in the NFL last year.  But his 40 time was 'disappointing'.   Big deal.  If you want speed, it's easy to find speed without relying on the Combined 40 time.  The 40 is a relic, dating back to when game film and measurement metrics weren't readily available.  But now, the measurements are easier, more relevant and more accurate than a silly track exercise in shorts.  This isn't high school or pee-wee, this is the NFL and the methods to properly measure speed is easily accessible... in games and in real situations, in pads, etc. 

Incidentally, I believe Rice was 4.6 at the Combine, but I don't remember him ever being caught from behind. 

53 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

he was beast?

I remember there being a horrible misspelling on one of those signs at the Vet. YOUR instead of YOU'RE...or THERE instead of THEIR. One of those common, stupid mistakes. I'm figuring, you had a whole week to make this sign, it took a lot of time to make, the least you could do is to make sure you spell the words correctly. 

45 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

This is such a terrible take. It's so elementary that I'm not going into detail.

Let's just draft 4.7 WRs from now on. We did so great last year throwing down the field. 40 times don't matter. Just ask the Chiefs

MEAT, MEAT, MEAT, MEAT, MEAT.

30 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah, its not a terrible take, but your takeaway from it was pretty poor.   Game tape speed matters.  How fast a guy is in shorts is irrelevant.   What matters is how that speed translates to the field.  

You built a nice straw man there though.  I'm not pushing for drafting 'slow' WRs, but I'm going to watch the games and see that speed on the field.  With technology today, you can learn true speed from the game film, the 40 is pretty worthless now.  Reagor, in real data, timed at a higher speed in a game than anyone in the NFL last year.  But his 40 time was 'disappointing'.   Big deal.  If you want speed, it's easy to find speed without relying on the Combined 40 time.  The 40 is a relic, dating back to when game film and measurement metrics weren't readily available.  But now, the measurements are easier, more relevant and more accurate than a silly track exercise in shorts.  This isn't high school or pee-wee, this is the NFL and the methods to properly measure speed is easily accessible... in games and in real situations, in pads, etc. 

Incidentally, I believe Rice was 4.6 at the Combine, but I don't remember him ever being caught from behind. 

I'm certain if I even try and explain z scores and statistical significance I'll get something that doesn't make any sense back

The NFL cares about 40 times. I'll leave it at that and if you don't understand, you're beyond me trying to even go in depth as to why

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  A guy lining up in a track stance that he will never line up in during a game, in shorts and a t-shirt, that he can start whenever the mood hits him, in a straight line, staring at the ground as he runs the first 10 yards.  Yeah, super important.  

Tell me: What was Jerry Rice's 40 time?  Larry Fitzgerald's?  What about Darrius Heyward Bey?

 

The Combine has elements that matter.  The 40 is the most over-rated portion of the Combine, but the most publicized.  

Thank you. I say this every year. Forty time is one of the most overrated things of the entire combine. People fall in love with a fast forty and just kill a guy for running it too slow specifically to WR. To me if he runs faster than what he looks on tape or he runs slower than he looks on tape then there’s an issue. At that point I have to go back and watch the guy and view it as did I miss it the first time or it is 40 just not indicative of how he plays. 

like you said In a later post with the technology they have they can figure out game speed and how you’re running a 40 in a game. Heck I’d rather watch tape and see a guy run a 40 with a defender on him and see how fast it takes him to get down the field when jostling with a defender and in pads. To me you’re going to get that from a Wide receiver specifically at least five or six times (if not more) in a given season so you’re going to know based off those five or six times how fast he really is. To me that is more Indicative. Don’t get me wrong 40 has a place in the testing but people make it out to be the holy grail. 

10 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Yes i would object to a max wage as well. Their should neither. Skills, supply and demand should regulate price

the point of the company is not a social one. Its is a business one and all decisions derive from what is in the best short and/or long term viability of the company.

low skill workers are more a liability than an asset. That changes as you go up the ladder, at least theoretically. Sadly we have far too many poor leaders both public and private. I attribute this mostly to the weakness of the population as they cant deal with truth and will rather support people who tell them comforting lies

Behavioral says they wont however. You cant rely on them to make smart decisions. Thats why they are stuck where they are

Opium of the people

Personal finance should be taught throughout HS, of course this will lead to more bubbles and more scammers like Madoff so need severer punishments. There should be harsher ramifications for filing bankruptcy both personal and by businesses depending on the circumstances. Daddy wanna brand new car, Nahh uhhh

1 hour ago, mattmcginley7 said:

This is such a terrible take. It's so elementary that I'm not going into detail.

Let's just draft 4.7 WRs from now on. We did so great last year throwing down the field. 40 times don't matter. Just ask the Chiefs

JJaw ran a 4.49 at 225 lbs or so.

The problem with the Combine is players started training for it, and putting up less meaningful numbers. So you have guys putting up great numbers in shorts in a straight line out of a sprinter's stance, but who take a half second to get up to speed out of a vertical stance, etc. So they should run the 40 in pads from a football stance.

Since we have the technology to note many aspects of play right off film in a form that allows comparisons, the value of Combine tests is reduced.

And the 40 is probably the least useful test, but the other tests have reduced value b/c people train for them, especially the agility drills. 

At this point, I'd rather find some AI software that can measure velocity running specific routes that can measure how much a WR slows in and out of standard cuts.

And it depends, jumps matter more for linemen as a measure of leg explosion, but whether a WR jumps 38" or 42" is less important than whether he can high point the ball.

9 hours ago, Utebird said:

He better be quicker he only weighs 175 lbs.

Id be ok if they both made the roster. I dont think goodwin is worth it, hes older and always hurt.

Could Mailata 1 of the 2 if it came to that fearing a team stealing them off the PS. No Ward unless 1 is a returner. If Alshon was good to go towards the middle of the season I think he has to play with the sal cap hit plus his talent