9 minutes ago, TEW said:

I honestly think we are going to see a lot of 2 QB packages with Hurts lined up as a RB.

We talked about play action and RPOs being so effective earlier... well, imagine if the RB is a QB. You can put an incredible amount of pressure on a defense and force them into maintaining a level of discipline that is simple a no win situation for the defense.

 

To me, this is intriguing, but I'm not sure I like the Eagles being the mad scientists trying it. I mean, is this really the next wave of football?  70 years ago, the forward pass was innovative.  50 years ago, the shotgun was innovative.  Over that time, non-QBs throwing the ball were considered gadget plays and tricks to try to catch the defense napping.  Going to the wildcat back about a decade ago, was Miami's way of working around their QB's deficiencies, and defenses weren't ready for it, so the novelty made it effective, but defenses quickly caught up.  And ironically, they caught up by going back to the basics of defense from about a hundred years ago... defending the single-wing, the triple option, etc. except with the added benefit that generally, they could ignore the QB lined up out wide as a WR.  

There aren't enough 'QBs' for each team to carry 2 qualified passers.  This might make a new market for guys like Brian Mitchell, Greg Ward, Tyrod Taylor, etc.  But, they need to be able to really throw the ball like a QB for it to be ultimately effective, but also need to be equally effective as a runner as well.  It is interesting to me that Lynn Bowden has been talked about as a RB by the Raiders.   He has some arm talent, ran out of the RPO in Kentucky as the QB... but also has shown a toughness for taking some hits.  It will be interesting to see what Bowden does moving forward.  Are the Raiders going to look to use him more creatively than 'just a RB'?   

 

 

3 hours ago, TEW said:

Good article that makes the same argument, but not the one I was thinking of. I will say that I sort of disagree on the argument to pass more on first down.

My reasoning is simply that if you have a roughly 35% chance of an incompletion and another, say, 5% chance to lose yardage on a sack, that's the type of thing that generally stalls out drives.  You want to be "on schedule" and while a run is going to average less yardage, it is much more likely to result in a positive yardage play. Maybe if teams got more aggressive on fourth down it might make more sense to be aggressive on first down as well.

Here’s another article I’ve shared a time or two. There are others but I can’t remember them. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-coaches-overuse-play-action-they-havent-yet/amp/

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

To me, this is intriguing, but I'm not sure I like the Eagles being the mad scientists trying it. I mean, is this really the next wave of football?  70 years ago, the forward pass was innovative.  50 years ago, the shotgun was innovative.  Over that time, non-QBs throwing the ball were considered gadget plays and tricks to try to catch the defense napping.  Going to the wildcat back about a decade ago, was Miami's way of working around their QB's deficiencies, and defenses weren't ready for it, so the novelty made it effective, but defenses quickly caught up.  And ironically, they caught up by going back to the basics of defense from about a hundred years ago... defending the single-wing, the triple option, etc. except with the added benefit that generally, they could ignore the QB lined up out wide as a WR.  

There aren't enough 'QBs' for each team to carry 2 qualified passers.  This might make a new market for guys like Brian Mitchell, Greg Ward, Tyrod Taylor, etc.  But, they need to be able to really throw the ball like a QB for it to be ultimately effective, but also need to be equally effective as a runner as well.  It is interesting to me that Lynn Bowden has been talked about as a RB by the Raiders.   He has some arm talent, ran out of the RPO in Kentucky as the QB... but also has shown a toughness for taking some hits.  It will be interesting to see what Bowden does moving forward.  Are the Raiders going to look to use him more creatively than 'just a RB'?   

 

 

If this is the plan then I would take Bowden 10 times out of 10 over Hurts.  Bowden offers you value at 3 positions whereas Hurts is a quarterback.  You save a roster spot with Bowden and he just offers much more versatility. 

I do agree that football morphs and changes over times.  The thing about this strategy is that Carson isn't a threat at all as a WR.  If you have Hurts in the backfield and want him to throw you are already playing a man short.  The defense will keep an eye on Wentz if Hurts has the ball but he is hardly a threat.  For this to work you ideally want a guy like Hurts as your starter and then have Bowden in the backfield.

Hurts and Ward on the field at the same time could actually be more dangerous than Hurts and Wentz if you think about it.

6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I have no idea what's going to happen with Hurts, but purely hypothetically if he turned into a 2 QB weapon in this offense as well as developing into an at least servicable backup, the league wide impact on the draft evaluations, QB contracts, team cap allocation, etc would be wild. 

Removing my connection to the Eagles and looking at this from the 35,000 foot view.. its a very intriguing situation.  Are we on the cusp of the newest evolution to the game of football... or is this just a harebrained scheme that makes zero sense?  The reality is, as usual, likely somewhere in the middle of those.   But, being so close to it, we are more upset about the likelihood of the latter, rather than excited about the former.  

 

If they had drafted Eason or one of those guys, then its clearly this 'undermining' of Wentz, as they would bring absolutely nothing to the offense in a 2 QB system.  But, with Hurts, his athleticism leaves open the door for some pretty crazy stuff.  He's not an uber-athlete like Taysom Hill.  But has much better arm talent (imho).  He's got some holes to his game, certainly, but he's not without a great deal of talent.

At worst, Hurts can't be any worse than Ronnie Brown in the Wildcat offense.

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

If this is the plan then I would take Bowden 10 times out of 10 over Hurts.  Bowden offers you value at 3 positions whereas Hurts is a quarterback.  You save a roster spot with Bowden and he just offers much more versatility. 

I do agree that football morphs and changes over times.  The thing about this strategy is that Carson isn't a threat at all as a WR.  If you have Hurts in the backfield and want him to throw you are already playing a man short.  The defense will keep an eye on Wentz if Hurts has the ball but he is hardly a threat.  For this to work you ideally want a guy like Hurts as your starter and then have Bowden in the backfield.

Hurts and Ward on the field at the same time could actually be more dangerous than Hurts and Wentz if you think about it.

I don't discount this.  I was just building a case.  Bowden doesn't save a roster spot though, as you'd still very much need a backup QB.   The argument could be made that you still need one with Hurts being a part of the 'core' offense.  

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

At worst, Hurts can't be any worse than Ronnie Brown in the Wildcat offense.

 

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Removing my connection to the Eagles and looking at this from the 35,000 foot view.. its a very intriguing situation.  Are we on the cusp of the newest evolution to the game of football... or is this just a harebrained scheme that makes zero sense?  The reality is, as usual, likely somewhere in the middle of those.   But, being so close to it, we are more upset about the likelihood of the latter, rather than excited about the former.  

 

If they had drafted Eason or one of those guys, then its clearly this 'undermining' of Wentz, as they would bring absolutely nothing to the offense in a 2 QB system.  But, with Hurts, his athleticism leaves open the door for some pretty crazy stuff.  He's not an uber-athlete like Taysom Hill.  But has much better arm talent (imho).  He's got some holes to his game, certainly, but he's not without a great deal of talent.

Yeah Hurts isn't the same athlete as a guy like Bowden or Hill, but he is a much better QB than those guys. Again, purely hypothetically assuming the plan is for him to be a 2 QB weapon, will that extra QB talent at the cost of pure size/speed be a benefit or a hinderance?  Does the benefit come more as the ability to be a serviceable back up in addition to that role in the same way Semualo is extra valuable because he can fill in at center?  I think it's reasonable to be a little disappointed in the pick but still be excited to see how it shakes out.

Eagles/Hurts X and O talk starts at 3:00

 

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Eagles/Hurts X and O talk starts at 3:00

 

Interesting video, but I did have to laugh at them starting off with a hot-take from Tim Tebow.

33 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

To me, this is intriguing, but I'm not sure I like the Eagles being the mad scientists trying it. I mean, is this really the next wave of football?  70 years ago, the forward pass was innovative.  50 years ago, the shotgun was innovative.  Over that time, non-QBs throwing the ball were considered gadget plays and tricks to try to catch the defense napping.  Going to the wildcat back about a decade ago, was Miami's way of working around their QB's deficiencies, and defenses weren't ready for it, so the novelty made it effective, but defenses quickly caught up.  And ironically, they caught up by going back to the basics of defense from about a hundred years ago... defending the single-wing, the triple option, etc. except with the added benefit that generally, they could ignore the QB lined up out wide as a WR.  

There aren't enough 'QBs' for each team to carry 2 qualified passers.  This might make a new market for guys like Brian Mitchell, Greg Ward, Tyrod Taylor, etc.  But, they need to be able to really throw the ball like a QB for it to be ultimately effective, but also need to be equally effective as a runner as well.  It is interesting to me that Lynn Bowden has been talked about as a RB by the Raiders.   He has some arm talent, ran out of the RPO in Kentucky as the QB... but also has shown a toughness for taking some hits.  It will be interesting to see what Bowden does moving forward.  Are the Raiders going to look to use him more creatively than 'just a RB'?   

 

 

I honestly think that's changing.

If you look at QB depth throughout the league, it's been getting progressively better. Rookie QBs routinely produce these days. Part of this is just the sheer size of the population: there are 100 million more Americans today than there were in 1980, which is a 50% increase in the pool of potential athletes. Part of it is the emphasis on athleticism and college concepts making their way to the NFL. The real value is going to be in those athletic QBs who aren't good enough to be full time starters, but are mediocre passers that lack things like vision/reading/anticipation with good to great athleticism.  Ten years ago these guys had no place in the NFL.  The athleticism couldn't overcome their inability to pass at a high level 30+ times per game.

But in the modern NFL with a creative offensive mind, imagine the possibilities.  You can run play action and RPOs with a RB/QB hybrid being the run option. You can scheme 1 read or run options after they receive the handoff.  You can pressure the defense with your starting QB, who is also athletic, running bootlegs/fake bootlegs.  You build in multiple misdirections and reads for a defense, and by stacking them together you are exponentially increasing the chances that the defensive scheme breaks. The fringe passing QB with great athleticism suddenly doesn't need to be a traditional pocket passer.  You shrink his decision making into a single binary read in one small part of the field and let him be a playmaker rather than a pocket passer.

I think this is where the NFL will ultimately end up.  Everything is pointing towards it: athletic QBs, team speed, the spread offense and spacing, RPOs, etc. Someone is going to find a couple QB/RB tweeners that are really dangerous as runners and they only need to be "good enough" as passers to make 1 quick read on coverage to either pass or run.  I honestly think the mental part is the biggest hurdle.  There are lots of guys with good arms and wheels.  It's just that sitting in the pocket and breaking down a defense is extremely difficult.  You can remove that hurdle in this type of system. You give the guy one simple decision on one route. Is he covered? No? Then pass. Yes? Then run. But it's not so simple for a defense when you have a guy like Wentz bootlegging to the other side of the field, Jackson and Reagor running deep, Ertz and Goedert running short, etc.  The safeties have to stay deep because of that speed at WR, so the LBs are in a no win situation. Any decision they make will be wrong, and they are going to have to make multiple decisions per play.

2 hours ago, Basic Thugonomics said:

I’m Italian-Romani and Cooking is all we are good for and stink at everything else lol

 

Have you tried Lodigiano Cheese? Which is sweeter And creamier then parmigiana? It’s the best! 

I have not. I have a friend who owns a cheese shop. I will check with her.

Thanks.

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

 

I could see it. Wentz is going to have fun throwing bombs to Reagor and Jackson

48 minutes ago, TEW said:

I honestly think we are going to see a lot of 2 QB packages with Hurts lined up as a RB.

We talked about play action and RPOs being so effective earlier... well, imagine if the RB is a QB. You can put an incredible amount of pressure on a defense and force them into maintaining a level of discipline that is simple a no win situation for the defense.

Why take away snaps from Sanders?

47 minutes ago, devpool said:

When we're up by 3 touchdowns 

I wish we just stuck with this

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I could see it. Wentz is going to have fun throwing bombs to Reagor and Jackson

Why take away snaps from Sanders?

I wish we just stuck with this

You don't.

You take away snaps from the 2nd and 3rd RBs.

The days of the workhorse RB are over.  So you have 40-60% of the total RB touches to use this type of thing.

Anyone that thinks Hurts is anything other than insurance due to Carson's injury history and maybe being 1 concussion away from retirement, is thinking too much into it.  It was a high price to pay for a backup, but Howie might be looking at Hurts as a possible replacement that might be needed sooner rather then later.  And with college football 2020 possibly being shut down,  there will be 0 QBs in next years draft that have played a game within the previous 16 months.  

5 hours ago, ManuManu said:

"In preseason and training camp, I’ll be wearing number 80 until a number in the teens opens up”

Isn’t 18 open? NVM, that’s Reagor. Also a pretty bold statement from a 6th round pick 

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Isn’t 18 open? NVM, that’s Reagor. Also a pretty bold statement from a 6th round pick 

Love it

4 hours ago, Basic Thugonomics said:

Sorry to hear about that....

If ever traveling Italy again particularly Milan where risotto is best imo, try a dish called risotto con ossobuco, which is  risotto with braised veal  

Not sure ill ever get back but sounds good, not a big fan of veal though🤮

Just watching SB 52 again. Even now seeing the Pats go up 33-32 makes my stomach go!

😆

56 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Isn’t 18 open? NVM, that’s Reagor. Also a pretty bold statement from a 6th round pick 

Would you rather him not believe he’s going to make the roster?

3 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Would you rather him not believe he’s going to make the roster?

Yea, clearly 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Isn’t 18 open? NVM, that’s Reagor. Also a pretty bold statement from a 6th round pick 

17 or 19 would look great on him.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

If this is the plan then I would take Bowden 10 times out of 10 over Hurts.  Bowden offers you value at 3 positions whereas Hurts is a quarterback.  You save a roster spot with Bowden and he just offers much more versatility. 

I do agree that football morphs and changes over times.  The thing about this strategy is that Carson isn't a threat at all as a WR.  If you have Hurts in the backfield and want him to throw you are already playing a man short.  The defense will keep an eye on Wentz if Hurts has the ball but he is hardly a threat.  For this to work you ideally want a guy like Hurts as your starter and then have Bowden in the backfield.

Hurts and Ward on the field at the same time could actually be more dangerous than Hurts and Wentz if you think about it.

If teams want to start running 2 qb offenses than college teams that run triple option would be a good place to look no?

 

I'll say one last thing to beat the Hurts horse, then I'd rather talk strategy about making it work.  They need to stop going off the grid in round 2.  

2019, when we still knew the offense needed speed, they passed on vastly superior talents in Metcalf and Mclaurin just so that they could add another "above the rim" possession WR with udfa quality movement skills to a 2-TE offense that already featured a possession WR about to get extended.  

2018, DJ Chark is on the board.  He's a WR cooked up in a lab.  The stacked 2020 WR class didn't feature a single WR with his combination of size, deep speed, acceleration, and overall movement talent.  We had a revolving door at the Z position and were about to entrust the position to a thoroughly over-the-hill and passed over Mike Wallace after leaving Torrey Smith for dead.  But we needed to draft a #2 TE behind Ertz to outsmart the rest of the NFL.

2017, many got on board with the Sidney Jones pick because of his pre-injury status, but the 2nd round was still much earlier than most expected him to go.  A non-qb with that kind of injury usually free-falls.  Again, outsmarting everyone else.  

2020...well, we know what happened.

Maybe one of these years their wild ideas work out, but it's looking like it might be best to wait until later in the draft to invest in their crazy ideas.