11 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

No, I even mentioned that in my previous post, I gave them credit for Miles Sanders.  The original post from @eagle45 was discussing the misuse of 2nd round picks.  

Below is my original quote.

Agree 100% and this is my gripe.  They seem to use Round 2 as a project round or a pick they can take a chance on.  Round 2 SHOULD be an impact starter in year 1.  Yes, we got Miles Sanders but as you said far too many times in recent years they take these fliers on guys.  The sucky thing is when other teams do it, a la Jaylon Smith, it ends up working out.  

Well... Goedert as a rookie played 523 snaps.  In 2019, he played 770 snaps (66%).

Sanders as a rookie played 613 snaps as a rookie.  And frankly, I'm not sure that he should play more than 700 snaps next year. 

 

So, they got basically the same amount of use out of Goedert as a rookie as they did Sanders.  And they got a lot of use from Goedert in his second year.  Starter Ertz only played 80%.  So, whether you want to admit it or not, Goedert is essentially a starter, and he's at least as much of a starter as Sanders.  

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well... Goedert as a rookie played 523 snaps.  In 2019, he played 770 snaps (66%).

Sanders as a rookie played 613 snaps as a rookie.  And frankly, I'm not sure that he should play more than 700 snaps next year. 

 

So, they got basically the same amount of use out of Goedert as a rookie as they did Sanders.  And they got a lot of use from Goedert in his second year.  Starter Ertz only played 80%.  So, whether you want to admit it or not, Goedert is essentially a starter, and he's at least as much of a starter as Sanders.  

I like Goedert.  I'm happy he's on the team and think he does take over for Ertz next year.  The thing about Goedert however, is they didn't have a 3rd round pick in 2018.  WR has been a constant need.  They could have taken DJ Chark or James Washington and then addressed TE later.  Looking back he was easily the top talent available and I'm not complaining.

It does seem however that more than often the Eagles take projects/risks in Round 2 when you should take a player who is ready to contribute.

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I like Goedert.  I'm happy he's on the team and think he does take over for Ertz next year.  The thing about Goedert however, is they didn't have a 3rd round pick in 2018.  WR has been a constant need.  They could have taken DJ Chark or James Washington and then addressed TE later.  Looking back he was easily the top talent available and I'm not complaining.

It does seem however that more than often the Eagles take projects/risks in Round 2 when you should take a player who is ready to contribute.

And Goedert contributed as a rookie.  So, using him to build your case isn't very strong.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Are you upset about the Miles Sanders pick?

I know you weren't asking me, but I think of Miles Sanders the same way I thought of Mccoy.  Aside from the fact that they are very similar players, they are very similar draft picks.

Both are/were really good RB prospects.  A RB that is a definitely big "hit" in the draft...Mccoy was that and I think next year will surely show that Sanders is that...this leaves you in the precarious position of giving a RB a big contract with guaranteed money.  

If drafting a RB round 2, I don't think you can do much better.  I still don't know if it's truly worth it.  

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And Goedert contributed as a rookie.  So, using him to build your case isn't very strong.

My issue with Goedert is that he actually achieved his best case scenario.  Every draft pick has risk.  Goedert did too.  He turned into a really good TE.  Yes, he's had some issues with very painful big drops, but he's still an excellent blocker and a dangerous receiver who plays a lot of snaps.

So they were "right."  He's a really good NFL TE...who has maxed out in this offense as a #2 TE who gives you 600 yards and 5 TD...in a year where they nearly exclusively ran 2 TE sets because they had no WRs to throw to.  That's what you want to swing for in round 2?  A really good #2 TE to go for 600 yards?  They are getting as much from Goedert as they ever could have hoped for.  

That was the upside they reached for in round 2.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I know you weren't asking me, but I think of Miles Sanders the same way I thought of Mccoy.  Aside from the fact that they are very similar players, they are very similar draft picks.

Both are/were really good RB prospects.  A RB that is a definitely big "hit" in the draft...Mccoy was that and I think next year will surely show that Sanders is that...this leaves you in the precarious position of giving a RB a big contract with guaranteed money.  

If drafting a RB round 2, I don't think you can do much better.  I still don't know if it's truly worth it.  

Considering the bust rate of second round picks, hitting on a good player even at a devalued position should be considered worth it. 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

My issue with Goedert is that he actually achieved his best case scenario.  Every draft pick has risk.  Goedert did too.  He turned into a really good TE.  Yes, he's had some issues with very painful big drops, but he's still an excellent blocker and a dangerous receiver who plays a lot of snaps.

So they were "right."  He's a really good NFL TE...who has maxed out in this offense as a #2 TE who gives you 600 yards and 5 TD...in a year where they nearly exclusively ran 2 TE sets because they had no WRs to throw to.  That's what you want to swing for in round 2?  A really good #2 TE to go for 600 yards?

That was the upside they reached for in round 2.

Goedert helps in the run game and in the red zone. That matters too. 

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

My issue with Goedert is that he actually achieved his best case scenario.  Every draft pick has risk.  Goedert did too.  He turned into a really good TE.  Yes, he's had some issues with very painful big drops, but he's still an excellent blocker and a dangerous receiver who plays a lot of snaps.

So they were "right."  He's a really good NFL TE...who has maxed out in this offense as a #2 TE who gives you 600 yards and 5 TD...in a year where they nearly exclusively ran 2 TE sets because they had no WRs to throw to.  That's what you want to swing for in round 2?  A really good #2 TE to go for 600 yards?

That was the upside they reached for in round 2.

That’s the upside they reached for short term with a healthy Ertz. If he gets hurt or tails off, Goedert’s ceiling goes way up. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That’s the upside they reached for short term with a healthy Ertz. If he gets hurt or tails off, Goedert’s ceiling goes way up. 

So that’s becoming a trend though.  A TE who’s upside goes way up if our probowl starter gets hurt.  2 years later, we draft a QB whose value and upside goes way up if our probowl starter gets hurt.  
 

Is our roster so stacked that we should be drafting guys who won’t reach their ceiling unless a probowl starter gets hurt?

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So that’s becoming a trend though.  A TE who’s upside goes way up if our probowl starter gets hurt.  2 years later, we draft a QB whose value and upside goes way up if our probowl starter gets hurt.  
 

Is our roster so stacked that we should be drafting guys who won’t reach their ceiling unless a probowl starter gets hurt?

Are you talking statistical ceiling or quality of play ceiling? I think there’s a difference. I think Goedert is a top 10 tight end right now, it just doesn’t look like it on the stat sheet. 

They obviously see immense value in playing two TEs. It’s not how I would go about building an offense, but at least we got the player evaluation correct.

11 hours ago, greend said:

I'm honestly not sure when the proper time to use Hurts will be.

When the patriots are desperate, and want to give us a first round pick next year 

Absolutely love watching The Last Dance.  MJ was just incredible, another level competitor.  I miss the 90s NBA.  It's refreshing to hear the conversations from the locker room.  Nothing like today.  Yes, they used foul language but racial slurs weren't being thrown around like they are used today.  Shoot they are listening to Phil Collins in the locker room.  Pretty amazing how the culture of the NBA has changed.  Trash talk was different.  It was real trash talk.  To the core insults, not just using the F bomb for the sake of it.  I think there was a different respect for things.

2 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Heard about that.  We’re all in this together.   

Unprecedented 

I just posted this in the "Welcome to the New EMB" thread, so I'll quote it here also.

1 minute ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

For about the past week, I've been working on a new feature for the board. It's not 100% complete, and I'll continue to tweak, but I'm hoping that this will help give us a larger footprint and help the board grow. 

https://news.eaglesmessageboard.com/

I have a dedicated URL for it, but the SSL hasn't kicked in for it yet (this is why the board went offline a couple of days ago, unexpectedly). Once that issue is resolved, I'll post the dedicated URL and I'll also see about getting a direct link to it here on the board. Maybe it can replace the 'Support' tab.

I believe I can link the two sites together also, so that you can use a single login and then be able to comment there, using your login from here. I'll work on that tomorrow.

There's not a lot of content there, at the moment. I've been more working on the format and getting it to work the way I wanted it to, rather than adding news or other things. WordPress is a totally foreign platform to me, so I'm kind of stumbling and bumbling my way through it.

Mark, the person that did the skin for the board, helped me out with the theme there as well. 

As far as the Xs and Os with Carpenter...Wentz can see the LBs line up and audible out. Or if there is delayed blitz, there would be a shallow route to throw to. There's always something to do.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I know you weren't asking me, but I think of Miles Sanders the same way I thought of Mccoy.  Aside from the fact that they are very similar players, they are very similar draft picks.

Both are/were really good RB prospects.  A RB that is a definitely big "hit" in the draft...Mccoy was that and I think next year will surely show that Sanders is that...this leaves you in the precarious position of giving a RB a big contract with guaranteed money.  

If drafting a RB round 2, I don't think you can do much better.  I still don't know if it's truly worth it.  

What if you let the RB walk and get the big contract elsewhere?

1 year of an explosive rookie, 3 years of an elite (or at least high end) starter, and then a 3rd round comp at the end of it.  Not a bad haul for a late 2nd round pick.

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And Goedert contributed as a rookie.  So, using him to build your case isn't very strong.

Yup. Anyone making an argument against Dallas Goedert is just someone looking to make an argument.

He's already a better player than Brent Celek was. It's a heckuva second round pick.

11 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Yup. Anyone making an argument against Dallas Goedert is just someone looking to make an argument.

He's already a better player than Brent Celek was. It's a heckuva second round pick.

Hey now. Brent Celek was a heckuva 5th round pick in his own right.

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hey now. Brent Celek was a heckuva 5th round pick in his own right.

 

I’m taking Celek in the 5th over Goedert in the 2nd

2 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Yup. Anyone making an argument against Dallas Goedert is just someone looking to make an argument.

He's already a better player than Brent Celek was. It's a heckuva second round pick.

I wouldn't say that just yet. Celek was probably the most reliable target along with jason avant, just a first down machine. Never went down on the first hit and was a far superior blocker. Goedert is a good blocker but not on celek's level.

Goedert will likely not replicate this past season now that the eagles hopefully have actual receivers. Last year he was the second best receiving option on the team. This year, if the receiver issue is fixed, he is 4th at best behind jackson, reagor, and ertz. You may even include sanders depending on the situation.

I would also suspect that if the offense has a lot of success with the new receiving corps that they will use fewer 2 TE sets. Last year the 2 TEs were our best receiving assets, now that we have other options it seems likely they change how often they use 12 personnel.

In my opinion, Goedert is the best of Celek, meaning right now he’s as good as Celek was as a receiver (despite what the stats say) and as a blocker. 

I think by the time Celek developed into a pretty good blocking tight end he no longer was the receiver he was in the first half of his career. People talk about how great he was as a blocker and receiver, but I don’t think he was ever both at the same time, at least not for any extended period. 

Goedert is so overrated in here. This is silly talk. 

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

Goedert is so overrated in here. This is silly talk. 

I don't actually disagree here. I think the talent and potential is there. I think he could be a top 3 TE in this league but right now he's not being utilised in this offense as we'd hope. And so it's potential rather than current reality.

7 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Yup. Anyone making an argument against Dallas Goedert is just someone looking to make an argument.

He's already a better player than Brent Celek was. It's a heckuva second round pick.

Nope

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't actually disagree here. I think the talent and potential is there. I think he could be a top 3 TE in this league but right now he's not being utilised in this offense as we'd hope. And so it's potential rather than current reality.

Really?  6th in the league in receptions over the last 11 weeks of the year (among TEs).  53 receptions for Goedert, 59 for Ertz.