26 minutes ago, RLC said:

Of course not. 

There is a legitimate problem. This new proposal doesn't address it.

As long as people keep hiring their friends or people that know Sean McVay, this will keep on happening.

Sean McVay is the problem.  He needs more minority friends.

41 minutes ago, RLC said:

Of course not. 

There is a legitimate problem. This new proposal doesn't address it.

As long as people keep hiring their friends or people that know Sean McVay, this will keep on happening.

I apologize if this sounds completely ignorant but why is it such a legitimate problem?  As someone else posted, what is the magic number that we say OK we did it, everyone is equal.

With these proposed rules of rewarding teams for hiring minorities they might as well just institute a rule that 25% of all coaching staffs must be made up of minorities.   If not, you lose a draft pick or the team is fined X amount of dollars.  How crazy do we want to get with this?

Maybe for every minority coach you hire you get $5 million added to your salary cap.  We can make up all kinds of silly rules but it doesn't make anyone more qualified for the job.  It forces teams to ignore   

I would love to see more minority coaches, IF they are qualified but I really feel that forced diversity causes more of a problem that it solves.  It justifies racism and forces you to look at the color of someone's skin rather than their qualifications and what they bring to the table. 

Diversity is a wonderful thing, if it's authentic and occurs naturally. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

I think the concern would be if he does hire a really good OC, that guy would leave to be a HC in a couple of years. There’s comfort in knowing if your HC is the playcaller, he’s yours as long as you want him. 

That's a very good point yeah... I guess it's a tricky one because I actually think Duce could be a really good HC. Whether or not he'll ever get the opportunity is another matter.

8 hours ago, devpool said:

I am curious as to why Duce hasn't been chosen to be an OC somewhere. Has he been choosing to stay here or is he not getting offers? I can't imagine why he wouldn't be getting offers

Because he isn't great as a candidate. Has the offense been great? Not really. It was awful at times last year. A guy came off the practice squad and played well towards the end. Great. Doesn't mean he can be a good OC. 

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I apologize if this sounds completely ignorant but why is it such a legitimate problem?  As someone else posted, what is the magic number that we say OK we did it, everyone is equal.

With these proposed rules of rewarding teams for hiring minorities they might as well just institute a rule that 25% of all coaching staffs must be made up of minorities.   If not, you lose a draft pick or the team is fined X amount of dollars.  How crazy do we want to get with this?

Maybe for every minority coach you hire you get $5 million added to your salary cap.  We can make up all kinds of silly rules but it doesn't make anyone more qualified for the job.  It forces teams to ignore   

I would love to see more minority coaches, IF they are qualified but I really feel that forced diversity causes more of a problem that it solves.  It justifies racism and forces you to look at the color of someone's skin rather than their qualifications and what they bring to the table. 

Diversity is a wonderful thing, if it's authentic and occurs naturally. 

 

 

 

You have spelled out the argument of bias and prejudice: the determination of qualified.  The question is do all candidates begin being the evaluation at the same place, so to speak. Does the non white guy up for the same job have to show "more" than the white guy?  O'Brian, Gase, Garrett, get pass after pass after pass.  Truly, Lovie is the only guy who wasn't that good that received the same treatment.  Shanahan is the OC for the worst loss in SB history and gets a premier job.  Bienemy is helping to develop the league MVP and the most exciting offense and he gets no credit or job offers.  

Honestly,  the change that has to take place is ownership.   Rules like better draft position are dumb as they wont make a difference 

11 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

That's how we did it as kids here in Maryland. They frown upon it now.

Why are they frowning on it?   Chickens are plentiful and everywhere in MD... especially the Eastern Shore.    Its the tried and true technique my dad taught me.  Works every time.  If there are crabs around... chicken necks will draw them in.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Why are they frowning on it?   Chickens are plentiful and everywhere in MD... especially the Eastern Shore.    Its the tried and true technique my dad taught me.  Works every time.  If there are crabs around... chicken necks will draw them in.

That's what I did/still do sometimes. Friend's restaurant gives us some extra. Connect it to a sinker and some string and you're all set. 

58 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I apologize if this sounds completely ignorant but why is it such a legitimate problem?  As someone else posted, what is the magic number that we say OK we did it, everyone is equal.

I would love to see more minority coaches, IF they are qualified but I really feel that forced diversity causes more of a problem that it solves.  It justifies racism and forces you to look at the color of someone's skin rather than their qualifications and what they bring to the table. 

Diversity is a wonderful thing, if it's authentic and occurs naturally. 

Eric Bieniemy was more qualified than all new hires everyone in the 2020 hiring cycle and couldn't get a job. He was more qualified than both Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy, who each got jobs earlier than others thought. 
Robert Saleh had a top 3 defense this year and demolished Kevin Stefanski in the playoffs. One got the job and the other didn't.
Leslie Frazier has HC experience and is the DC of a top 5 unit. Can't get a sniff.
George Edwards has been the DC for Minnesota for 6 years. Can't get a sniff.

The pushback against Frazier/Edwards is that they're not "the guy" due to McDermott/Zimmer. This is fair. However, it didn't stop Nagy, Pederson, all of Sean McVay's staff, Matt Patricia, Frank Reich, etc. from getting jobs. 

The 2020 "new" coaching hires include the following. We'll exclude McCarthy and Rivera, due to their SB experience. There's no controversy picking either of them. 

- Joe Judge
- Kevin Stefanski
- Matt Rhule

When guys like Joe Judge get NFL jobs, and Eric Bieniemy don't, people are rightfully going to be upset. 

The idea that the NFL is some pure meritocracy when Chase Daniel repeatedly gets paid, Adam Gase gets to fail up and Bruce Allen got 10 years in Washington, is simply not true. 

49 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

You have spelled out the argument of bias and prejudice: the determination of qualified.  The question is do all candidates begin being the evaluation at the same place, so to speak. Does the non white guy up for the same job have to show "more" than the white guy?  O'Brian, Gase, Garrett, get pass after pass after pass.  Truly, Lovie is the only guy who wasn't that good that received the same treatment.  Shanahan is the OC for the worst loss in SB history and gets a premier job.  Bienemy is helping to develop the league MVP and the most exciting offense and he gets no credit or job offers.  

Honestly,  the change that has to take place is ownership.   Rules like better draft position are dumb as they wont make a difference 

If the Rooney's are so serious about change and leaving their mark, maybe they should sell the franchise to an African American.  Snow ball's chance in hell on that one.

All anyone cares about is their wallet and the rest is a show.

Nah, let's focus on the minority % of coaches so we look progressive, but let's ignore the ownership situation.

33 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Why are they frowning on it?   Chickens are plentiful and everywhere in MD... especially the Eastern Shore.    Its the tried and true technique my dad taught me.  Works every time.  If there are crabs around... chicken necks will draw them in.

 

 

In my town they passed a city ordinance to ban crabbing on the town dock. People were catching females at the wrong time, to small and other things. 

8 minutes ago, RLC said:

Eric Bieniemy was more qualified than all new hires everyone in the 2020 hiring cycle and couldn't get a job. He was more qualified than both Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy, who each got jobs earlier than others thought. 
Robert Saleh had a top 3 defense this year and demolished Kevin Stefanski in the playoffs. One got the job and the other didn't.
Leslie Frazier has HC experience and is the DC of a top 5 unit. Can't get a sniff.
George Edwards has been the DC for Minnesota for 6 years. Can't get a sniff.

The pushback against Frazier/Edwards is that they're not "the guy" due to McDermott/Zimmer. This is fair. However, it didn't stop Nagy, Pederson, all of Sean McVay's staff, Matt Patricia, Frank Reich, etc. from getting jobs. 

The 2020 "new" coaching hires include the following. We'll exclude McCarthy and Rivera, due to their SB experience. There's no controversy picking either of them. 

- Joe Judge
- Kevin Stefanski
- Matt Rhule

When guys like Joe Judge get NFL jobs, and Eric Bieniemy don't, people are rightfully going to be upset. 

The idea that the NFL is some pure meritocracy when Chase Daniel repeatedly gets paid, Adam Gase gets to fail up and Bruce Allen got 10 years in Washington, is simply not true. 

Well, Rivera is a minority so lets not exclude him when we are talking about a made up scenario of racist owners not hiring anyone but white guys to coach.

And there is no way of knowing who was more qualified than Bieniemy when the others got hired. Pederson won a super bowl so thats a hard argument to make now. Perhaps it makes sense to say they got the right guy.

And there is so much more that goes in to a decision to hire a head coach than how a guys defense ranks in the league. So much more that goes in to being a HC. That isnt even close to a fair way to evaluate who is qualified to be HC. The fact is, we have no idea who is or isnt. 

And how did Frazier's time as HC go? Theres probably a reason why hes not HC anymore and cant get a job as one again. When  you look at others like Singletary, and Lovie Smith- horrible. Horrible.

The most successful one recently has been Tomlin and even a lot of his team doesnt respect him. Including other black players. And, he hasnt done much since the beginning of his HC career when he inherited a really nice roster. He seems average at best. 

And are we going to ignore how the NFL has been trying to lure Shaw in from Stanford for years now? Its not their fault he wont come.

 

This whole story is BS. The idea is BS. And why would an african american person even want a job under these circumstances. That a team hired you just because they had to. Have they no pride? Really just gonne be happy with a handout they dont necessarily deserve in a place they may not even be wanted? That sounds like a horrible place to be in. I wouldnt want it. 

 

Without diminishing the fact that racism exists even in the NFL, there is so much more that goes into being a head coach than how well the unit you coordinate performs. Is he a leader? Can he hire a good coaching staff? What’s his vision for team building?

14 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

In my town they passed a city ordinance to ban crabbing on the town dock. People were catching females at the wrong time, to small and other things. 

Gotcha... so it wasn't about the chicken necks.   

 

I'm 2nd generation up in PA, but my dad's family is still almost all down on the Eastern shore farm country of MD.  I knew the difference between a male and female blue crab before I knew the difference in male and female humans, I think.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Eric Bieniemy was more qualified than all new hires everyone in the 2020 hiring cycle and couldn't get a job. He was more qualified than both Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy, who each got jobs earlier than others thought. 
Robert Saleh had a top 3 defense this year and demolished Kevin Stefanski in the playoffs. One got the job and the other didn't.
Leslie Frazier has HC experience and is the DC of a top 5 unit. Can't get a sniff.
George Edwards has been the DC for Minnesota for 6 years. Can't get a sniff.

The pushback against Frazier/Edwards is that they're not "the guy" due to McDermott/Zimmer. This is fair. However, it didn't stop Nagy, Pederson, all of Sean McVay's staff, Matt Patricia, Frank Reich, etc. from getting jobs. 

The 2020 "new" coaching hires include the following. We'll exclude McCarthy and Rivera, due to their SB experience. There's no controversy picking either of them. 

- Joe Judge
- Kevin Stefanski
- Matt Rhule

When guys like Joe Judge get NFL jobs, and Eric Bieniemy don't, people are rightfully going to be upset. 

The idea that the NFL is some pure meritocracy when Chase Daniel repeatedly gets paid, Adam Gase gets to fail up and Bruce Allen got 10 years in Washington, is simply not true. 

The NFL is not a pure meritocracy, that's for sure.  But it's also unfair to cry racism as the reason for it.  Owners, GMs, and HCs hire familiar buddies over more qualified new names.  Seriously, how do you think Howie Roseman got the GM job here?  And despite the great job he subsequently did, how on Earth do you think he got it BACK after Chip Kelly?  Same with Doug.  He was an AR understudy who spent time here as player and coach.  Neither had earned their titles yet, although both worked out.  

And Eric Bieniemy is the OC underneath one of the most legendary offensive (and notoriously hands-on) minds in the NFL.  That's great exposure/learning, but it's also not evidence as to what he can do alone.  He's been the OC for only 2 years and he will be a HC.  If a team where he played and coached needed a HC like the Eagles did with Doug, you better believe he'd be on the short list.  Frazier/Edwards are defensive guys underneath defensive HCs...you know there's no huge market for that.

Our own Duce is an interesting example.  He's done a GREAT job with the RBs.  There is a glass ceiling above his head.  Not because he's black, but because he coordinates a running game in a passing league.  Making that jump to OC is tough.  That's why Bieniemy only got that opportunity after Doug AND Nagy both left.  Doug and Nagy were QB's who were QB coaches.  That's why they got first dibs.

Marvin Lewis is an example of a minority coach who kept his job for far too long...

 

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Well, Rivera is a minority so lets not exclude him when we are talking about a made up scenario of racist owners not hiring anyone but white guys to coach.

And there is no way of knowing who was more qualified than Bieniemy when the others got hired. Pederson won a super bowl so thats a hard argument to make now. Perhaps it makes sense to say they got the right guy.

This whole story is BS. The idea is BS. And why would an african american person even want a job under these circumstances. That a team hired you just because they had to. Have they no pride? Really just gonne be happy with a handout they dont necessarily deserve in a place they may not even be wanted? That sounds like a horrible place to be in. I wouldnt want it. 

 

I excluded both Rivera AND McCarthy because they're experienced hires and simply not in the same situation. Hiring both of those coaches made perfect sense for both teams. The Rooney Rule is about opportunity. So a coach like Rivera will get jobs, because he succeeded in his only coaching job.

As for Pederson, that hire was absolutely crushed at the time. It worked out, but he wasn't our first choice (McAdoo). We got lucky. 

There is no perfect system. However, doing nothing is not a solution either. 

1 hour ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

You have spelled out the argument of bias and prejudice: the determination of qualified.  The question is do all candidates begin being the evaluation at the same place, so to speak. Does the non white guy up for the same job have to show "more" than the white guy?  O'Brian, Gase, Garrett, get pass after pass after pass.  Truly, Lovie is the only guy who wasn't that good that received the same treatment.  Shanahan is the OC for the worst loss in SB history and gets a premier job.  Bienemy is helping to develop the league MVP and the most exciting offense and he gets no credit or job offers.  

Honestly,  the change that has to take place is ownership.   Rules like better draft position are dumb as they wont make a difference 

Let's be fair here -- Shanahan has been an NFL OC since 2008; Bienemy since 2018.  Who do you think should actually have gotten a HC job offer first??

 

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

knew the difference between a male and female blue crab before I knew the difference in male and female humans, I think

Yep it's right there on the belly. Sooks are cheap but I never get em. Some do. I just got a half bushel of twos the other day for 75 bucks. Not bad.

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

How has he sucked as a RB coach?

Only one Lombardi and one parade.

23 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Yep it's right there on the belly. Sooks are cheap but I never get em. Some do. I just got a half bushel of twos the other day for 75 bucks. Not bad.

We never went with the sooks.  Always threw them back.  

48 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Let's be fair here -- Shanahan has been an NFL OC since 2008; Bienemy since 2018.  Who do you think should actually have gotten a HC job offer first??

 

Also the fact that Shanahan was Tech hired before the SB that he lost as a OC. It was a done deal and the 49ers were not changing their minds. Look what happens, 49ers made the SB a few years later. So they made the right choice. So that is a dumb example for anyone to give.

Why does everything turn to racism? Just dumb as hell. Maybe he didnt interview well? Maybe he didnt fit their scheme they are looking to use? Maybe his scheme didnt fit the players the team currently had? Maybe other coaches had more experience? Maybe that coach didnt see eye to eye with the FO and wanted more power then they are willing to give?  

There are tons of reasons on why a FO goes with one coach over another. Blaming it on being racist is just a cop out to start an argument. Im sure if Bienemy still does well in the next few seasons he will get his chance. People who play the racist card are usually the ones that are racist themselves. Its not a one way street, it can go both ways. 

18 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Let's be fair here -- Shanahan has been an NFL OC since 2008; Bienemy since 2018.  Who do you think should actually have gotten a HC job offer first??

 

Bienemy came through in his biggest moment, Shanahan has failed 2x in his biggest moment.  Should Shanahan  have been hired before Pederson due to more OC experience?

Truly,  this is a circular argument.   I agree with posters who expressed that this new rule change is stupid, I disagree with those who express that race has nothing to do with upward mobility in the NFL coaching ranks.  

14 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Ha. Corona we’re for the wife.  Dos Equis for me.  Coors were for steaming crabs.  

Mexican piss beer although I agree, if you are going to drink their beer, drink XX. Me, I would drink tequila with crabs but more likely a California Sauvignon Blanc. 

9 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Bienemy came through in his biggest moment, Shanahan has failed 2x in his biggest moment.  Should Shanahan  have been hired before Pederson due to more OC experience?

Truly,  this is a circular argument.   I agree with posters who expressed that this new rule change is stupid, I disagree with those who express that race has nothing to do with upward mobility in the NFL coaching ranks.  

The crux of your argument is nonsense.  That Super Bowl turned when Devonta Freeman didn't care enough to block Hightower on the blitz pick up with the Falcons ahead 28-9; is Shanahan supposed to put pads on, too?  It's like blaming Marty Schottenheimer because Byner can't hold onto a football.  Objectively, Bienemy rode Andy Reid's coat tails for a ring -- but sure, he came through

Did Shanahan interview for the Eagles HC position?

 

This makes me so sad that this didn't happen.

8 minutes ago, RLC said:

This makes me so sad that this didn't happen.

Why do you think Cleveland turned it down (if true)? Didn’t think Wilson would agree to a contract extension?