13 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The crux of your argument is nonsense.  That Super Bowl turned when Devonta Freeman didn't care enough to block Hightower on the blitz pick up with the Falcons ahead 28-9; is Shanahan supposed to put pads on, too?  It's like blaming Marty Schottenheimer because Byner can't hold onto a football.  Objectively, Bienemy rode Andy Reid's coat tails for a ring -- but sure, he came through

Did Shanahan interview for the Eagles HC position?

 

If the question was who should have been hired first in relation to OC experience,  which it was, then why does it matter if Shanahan interviewed with the Eagles or not?   

And there you go, objectively Bienemy is nothing but Reid's insignificant OC?  That is purely speculative as you have no idea what happened behind the scenes.  What you know is Reid called the plays on game day.  But Shanahan has called the plays in SB and lost both.  In Atlanta, perhaps the worst 2nd half game plan and execution ever.  You blame that loss on one play when they had a 19 point lead?  Seems to me Shanahan should be able to still win a game with a 19 point lead with one missed block?  Curious, did Shanahan put Freeman in a place to succeed by having him block Hightower 1 one 1?  

I get it, you think Shanahan is both a better coach and more deserving of being a head coach.  Fair enough.  I'll argue Bienemy deserves the same chance.

5 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

If the question was who should have been hired first in relation to OC experience,  which it was, then why does it matter if Shanahan interviewed with the Eagles or not?   

And there you go, objectively Bienemy is nothing but Reid's insignificant OC?  That is purely speculative as you have no idea what happened behind the scenes.  What you know is Reid called the plays on game day.  But Shanahan has called the plays in SB and lost both.  In Atlanta, perhaps the worst 2nd half game plan and execution ever.  You blame that loss on one play when they had a 19 point lead?  Seems to me Shanahan should be able to still win a game with a 19 point lead with one missed block?  Curious, did Shanahan put Freeman in a place to succeed by having him block Hightower 1 one 1?  

I get it, you think Shanahan is both a better coach and more deserving of being a head coach.  Fair enough.  I'll argue Bienemy deserves the same chance.

False narrative to blame Shanahan for the ATL loss; the Falcons players lost that game, pure and simple.  If any coach is to blame for that loss it was on Dan Quinn not making any defensive adjustments.  If your OC puts together a game plan to put you ahead 28-3 halfway through the 3rd qtr he's done a great job.  Shame on them for letting him down.

18 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

 

I get it, you think Shanahan is both a better coach and more deserving of being a head coach.  Fair enough.  I'll argue Bienemy deserves the same chance.

Completely fair to argue.  I would agree.  I think it's completely unfair to blame racism and impose that on a team.  

Completely random point about Marquise Goodwin...Rich Scangarello was the QB coach in SF when Goodwin had his breakthrough season.  I'm sure Howie must have had a discussion about Goodwin with him and how they might use him.

IMO, this every so slightly increases the chance of that lottery ticket hitting.

34 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Why do you think Cleveland turned it down (if true)? Didn’t think Wilson would agree to a contract extension?

The answer to your question in within the question.  Because..............Cleveland.  

Racism and catching crabs with chicken necks.  This NFL season better happen.  

22 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

False narrative to blame Shanahan for the ATL loss; the Falcons players lost that game, pure and simple.  If any coach is to blame for that loss it was on Dan Quinn not making any defensive adjustments.  If your OC puts together a game plan to put you ahead 28-3 halfway through the 3rd qtr he's done a great job.  Shame on them for letting him down.

This is an interesting argument.  The OC is the reason for the lead and great play for 2.5 quarters.  They players and the head coach were just riding the OC's coattails.  For the final 1.5 quarters, the OC is completely exonerated, has no hand in the outcome, and the loss is entirely on the poor play of the players and the head coach.  Gosh, would love work for you: just do good for a little more than 50% of the time and if it all goes down the drain it's on everybody else.  An offense that had a massive 17 first downs, turned the ball over once, (NE 2 times - both in the 2nd qtr when ATL scored 21) - so what it really looks like to me is that for one quarter with the ATL defense creating 2 turnovers, one of which was returned for a TD, Atlanta played well.  I think it is a False Narrative to exonerate him and think he called a great game.  Truth is, the entire team tanked and when they needed him to create a score to win the game, he and his offense couldn't do it. 

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

False narrative to blame Shanahan for the ATL loss; the Falcons players lost that game, pure and simple.  If any coach is to blame for that loss it was on Dan Quinn not making any defensive adjustments.  If your OC puts together a game plan to put you ahead 28-3 halfway through the 3rd qtr he's done a great job.  Shame on them for letting him down.

You win as a team and you lose as a team BUT sometimes there are moments when 1 decision can be the difference. If you commit a defensive penalty on 1st down resulting in a 1st down when the opponent is on their 20 - it's bad but you still have a chance to force a punt. Do the same on 4th down when the opponent is inside your 5 ... If you miss a block or a tackle or a field goal early in the game, you have the remainder to overcome it. Do the same at the end of a game, you probably won't overcome it.  . I don't blame Quinn or Shanahan for the Patriots come back - it's the Patriots and it's Brady. BUT - on the Falcons final drive they had moved ball within field goal range - no field goal is a given and it would have been a long field goal but it was well within Bryant's range who was kicking as well as anyone. The play there was to run the ball 3 times and kick the field goal. That puts them up 2 possessions making it extremely unlikely the Pats complete the comeback. Falcons pass on 3rd down, Ryan is sacked and knocked out of field goal range - they punt - Patriots score. Who ever decided to pass on 3rd down is the idiot - Quinn took the blame as he should since he's HC. But was it him?

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Completely fair to argue.  I would agree.  I think it's completely unfair to blame racism and impose that on a team.  

It's not blaming racism, it's acknowledging it.  Why is that so hard? 

14 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Completely fair to argue.  I would agree.  I think it's completely unfair to blame racism and impose that on a team.  

It's unfair to blame/accuse without evidence but it's not unreasonable to ask the question. 

19 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

False narrative to blame Shanahan for the ATL loss; the Falcons players lost that game, pure and simple.  If any coach is to blame for that loss it was on Dan Quinn not making any defensive adjustments.  If your OC puts together a game plan to put you ahead 28-3 halfway through the 3rd qtr he's done a great job.  Shame on them for letting him down.

Oh really?

Trying to stall out a whole half going conservative is on the players and Quinn?

They scored 0 second half points.

He certainly deserves quite a bit of blame, and he did it again this year by getting too conservative.

It's not all on the players when the same thing happens with different players under the same coach.

 

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Completely random point about Marquise Goodwin...Rich Scangarello was the QB coach in SF when Goodwin had his breakthrough season.  I'm sure Howie must have had a discussion about Goodwin with him and how they might use him.

IMO, this every so slightly increases the chance of that lottery ticket hitting.

This is a pretty good video of what he can bring to the offense if he stays healthy.

 

 

15 hours ago, bpac55 said:

That's the age old question.  Very relatable to what we are doing with our lockdowns and the moving goalposts. 

Is it dumb to compare percentages to real world, United States percentages?  A quick search shows that 12% of the population is black while just about 17% is hispanic.  Let's be real though, the NFL wants African American coaches.  So 12% of 32 is just about 4.  The NFL currently has 4 minority head coaches.  If Eric Biennemy or Duce are passed over again next year heads are going to roll.

Anthony Lynn- LAC   He has a .500 win %.  Will be interesting to see what he does with his new quarterback rather than RIvers.

Brian Flores- Miami  5 wins last year.   Same as Lynn, he has his hand picked quarterback now.  Time to see what he's made of as a coach.

Mike Tomlin- Pitt  Starting to wear thin with the Steelers.  The Super Bowls bought him a lot of time but he needs to win this year or he could be out.

Ron Rivera- Washington (Hispanic/NA) He's had success in the league but IMO he's JAG or JAC.  He will win some games, probably sneak in to the playoffs with a great defense but that's about it for him

I would love to see more minority coaches, IF they are qualified for the job.  Let's face it, a lot of our favorite players are minorities and I can see a lot of them getting in to coaching someday.  No one is hoping they would fail.

I would love to see Seth Joyner, BDawk and JP to come on board as coaches not because of their skin but because they were all time Eagles who's attitudes, knowledge of the game and drive would make them great coaches IMO.

Sadly, racism will always be alive in our country.  As hard as PC culture is trying, you just can't tell 330 million people to think the same.  The NFL is trying to do the same and in doing so with ridiculous rules it is racist in itself. 

We have a Jewish GM.  How many of those are there?  Three women coaches and those are lower positions.  How many Atheists or Agnostics?  How many Muslims, Buddhists?   How many Asian Americans?  
I am all for diversity but this targeted approach isn’t about diversity.  It is another Goodell smokescreen.  Best minority hire the NFL could make is to fire Roger and promote Troy 

40 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

If the question was who should have been hired first in relation to OC experience,  which it was, then why does it matter if Shanahan interviewed with the Eagles or not?   

And there you go, objectively Bienemy is nothing but Reid's insignificant OC?  That is purely speculative as you have no idea what happened behind the scenes.  What you know is Reid called the plays on game day.  But Shanahan has called the plays in SB and lost both.  In Atlanta, perhaps the worst 2nd half game plan and execution ever.  You blame that loss on one play when they had a 19 point lead?  Seems to me Shanahan should be able to still win a game with a 19 point lead with one missed block?  Curious, did Shanahan put Freeman in a place to succeed by having him block Hightower 1 one 1?  

I get it, you think Shanahan is both a better coach and more deserving of being a head coach.  Fair enough.  I'll argue Bienemy deserves the same chance.

I feel like there are so many intangibles that go with hiring a head coach now as opposed to 20 years ago that people don't discuss.  Despite Bienemy winning the SB (under one of the most creative offensive minds of all time), how do we know that he can command a room?  Did he interview well for a head coaching job?  Do his players wanna go into battle for/with him?  Sean McVay does all that, Joe Judge definitely commands a room (after Pat Shurmur I'm sure that was their #1 priority), and despite his lack of success in college, Kingsbury looks like he's building a culture and a team that could be special in the next few years.  Arizona was like a morgue when Steve Wilks was the HC there.  Kyle Shanahan fits this bill as well along with having the experience and reputation for being one of the most innovative offensive guys ever.  How do we know Bienemy would be any good at these things?  

The best sales people in our company almost never make the best leaders.  Bienemy could definitely be one of those guys, and it has nothing to do with his race.  

16 hours ago, Casey @ Bat said:

Chip Kelly took the team from last place to first place his 1st season. And this Blog loved it.

D20 did some great breakdowns on the RPO and the no huddle worked well. Reverted to the RPO with Nick and won a Super Bowl. Never should have been given GM authority.  What the blog really loved was the ability to discuss another version of football.  The elders in this group have discussed a lot of offenses from the Spread, Run ‘n Shoot (Gilbride was awful at it with the giants), Pistol, RPO, I, option, Wishbone, Veer and even the Wing T.   This Blog also hated Chip’s 3/4 and his DC hire.  Guess maybe we enjoy talking football sometimes between the crabs and the beers. 

9 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

We have a Jewish GM.  How many of those are there?  Three women coaches and those are lower positions.  How many Atheists or Agnostics?  How many Muslims, Buddhists?   How many Asian Americans?  
I am all for diversity but this targeted approach isn’t about diversity.  It is another Goodell smokescreen.  Best minority hire the NFL could make is to fire Roger and promote Troy 

You're assuming that Troy had nothing to do with the new proposal. But I agree the new proposal stinks.

3 hours ago, RLC said:

Eric Bieniemy was more qualified than all new hires everyone in the 2020 hiring cycle and couldn't get a job. He was more qualified than both Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy, who each got jobs earlier than others thought. 
Robert Saleh had a top 3 defense this year and demolished Kevin Stefanski in the playoffs. One got the job and the other didn't.
Leslie Frazier has HC experience and is the DC of a top 5 unit. Can't get a sniff.
George Edwards has been the DC for Minnesota for 6 years. Can't get a sniff.

The pushback against Frazier/Edwards is that they're not "the guy" due to McDermott/Zimmer. This is fair. However, it didn't stop Nagy, Pederson, all of Sean McVay's staff, Matt Patricia, Frank Reich, etc. from getting jobs. 

The 2020 "new" coaching hires include the following. We'll exclude McCarthy and Rivera, due to their SB experience. There's no controversy picking either of them. 

- Joe Judge
- Kevin Stefanski
- Matt Rhule

When guys like Joe Judge get NFL jobs, and Eric Bieniemy don't, people are rightfully going to be upset. 

The idea that the NFL is some pure meritocracy when Chase Daniel repeatedly gets paid, Adam Gase gets to fail up and Bruce Allen got 10 years in Washington, is simply not true. 

There lies the problem though.  What one team views as highly qualified, another might view him as nowhere near ready.  We don't know what teams are looking for but we do know that it goes much deeper than oh he's been an OC for so many years.  

3 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Without diminishing the fact that racism exists even in the NFL, there is so much more that goes into being a head coach than how well the unit you coordinate performs. Is he a leader? Can he hire a good coaching staff? What’s his vision for team building?

Exactly.  I go back to Andy Reid getting hired.  He was a nobody but in his interview he came with binders full of his plan for the Eagles.  A coaching staff he wanted to hire and his entire vision.  He was just a quarterback coach.  Never an OC.  There are plenty of coordinators who have been around for ages and had tons of success.  Bienemy has had the privilege to work under a HOF coach who called the plays for the majority of the time and now he gets to work with elite talent at QB, TE and WR.  We have no idea how he interviewed, what his plan for a team is and if it fits what an owner wants.  He ALSO has a shady past at Colorado so maybe that gets weighed in to things.  

18 hours ago, Utebird said:

Its a matter of opinion, the eagles got spanked at the vet because they made too many mistakes. On defense and offense, letting trotter walk and replacing him with gardner and kirklan didnt help😒

The Eagles and Bucs were evenly matched in 2002.  Hence they played to a tie over 2 full games with the exception of the Barber INT return at the end of the NFCCG.  Eagles won the regular season matchup 20-10, and the Bucs won the playoff game 27-10 (their last 7 points on the Barber pick-6 in desperation time).  If those teams played 10 times each team would probably win 5 of them.  It was our bad luck that they won the game that counted.

Either team would have dominated the Raiders, playbook or no playbook.  The AFC was total garbage that year.

9 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Exactly.  I go back to Andy Reid getting hired.  He was a nobody but in his interview he came with binders full of his plan for the Eagles.  A coaching staff he wanted to hire and his entire vision.  He was just a quarterback coach.  Never an OC.  There are plenty of coordinators who have been around for ages and had tons of success.  Bienemy has had the privilege to work under a HOF coach who called the plays for the majority of the time and now he gets to work with elite talent at QB, TE and WR.  We have no idea how he interviewed, what his plan for a team is and if it fits what an owner wants.  He ALSO has a shady past at Colorado so maybe that gets weighed in to things.  

Look at John Harbaugh - his name had been floated as a HC candidate for years but teams were leery of promoting a ST coach. The Eagles moved him to DB's coach (when the Eagles had DBs that I could have coached) and the next year he is interviewed and hired by the Ravens - which worked out well for them. My point is that teams didn't look at him seriously as HC because he was a STs coach. But once the Ravens got him in the interview he was an obvious choice.

 

Racism is real and it needs to be exposed and called out when we see it. But not every minority is passed over because of it.

15 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

That's how we did it as kids here in Maryland. They frown upon it now.

Lived my first ten and a half years in New Orleans.  We would go down to St. John’s Bayou right where it made Lake Pontchartrain. Water was a bit brackish.  Drop in the crab traps with chicken necks and wings (Buffalo wings were in the future).  We would reject the "mud” crabs (see 4for4’s picture and only grab the blues.  Now I grew up in New Orleans and Houston.  No Old Bay for me.  Zatarain’s.   Learned to appreciate Old Bay living here for thirty + years but still prefer Zatarain’s for a shrimp boil.  Anybody serve you red beans and rice not made with Zatarain’s sweet pepper flakes didn’t serve you authentic red beans.  With my red and green bells this year, I am going to try to make my own sweet pepper flakes.  

2 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Look at John Harbaugh - his name had been floated as a HC candidate for year but teams were leery of promoting a ST coach. The Eagles moved him to DB's coach (when the Eagles had DBs that I could have coached) and the next year he is interviewed and hired by the Ravens - which worked out well for him. My point is that teams didn't look at him seriously as HC because he was a STs coach. But once the Ravens got him in the interview he was an obvious choice.

 

Racism is real and it needs to be exposed and called out when we see it. But not every minority is passed over because of it.

100% agree with you but the problem with not only the NFL and the Rooney Rule but society in general is that people look to find racism in everything.  It's pathetic.  We have these SJW's who dig and dig and dig to try to find something.  People WANT to find racism so they can cry out racist!  

 

1 hour ago, Nivraga said:

It's unfair to blame/accuse without evidence but it's not unreasonable to ask the question. 

so, going back to how this discussion started, a rule has been proposed in the NFL to reward teams who hire black coaches with a higher draft pick.

Asking the question...fair I guess. But taking action and trying to institute rules based on the assumed "yes" to the question is unfair; and words cant express how ridiculous. 

13 hours ago, devpool said:

I am curious as to why Duce hasn't been chosen to be an OC somewhere. Has he been choosing to stay here or is he not getting offers? I can't imagine why he wouldn't be getting offers

Duce got demoted this past hiring season. He was responsible for backfield motion and sucked at it. Result? Scangarello.  Duce is a heck of a RB coach with Stout’s help in the running game.  I haven’t seen anything to suggest he is OC material.  

Good article by Jimmy regarding the Eagles 30+ players.  If they make the playoffs, 12 players will be 30+ and we still could see JP and other vets added.  Reloading the pipeline of young players is imperative.  Another reason Hurts was such a poor use of a draft pick.  Using that 2nd on a guy who could replace BG, Kelce or a corner would have been huge.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/look-eagles-players-over-30-and-their-succession-plan-each-2020/