4 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

They have to a degree, but you still see a lot of different formations and alignments. Ertz will be out wide with trips on the other side of the formation. Doug exhausts every option to gain an advantage. I just think he's been limited in his weaponry... partly due to his/Howie's own doing.

However, the typical Z, X, Y is still very alive and well. You're only going to have so many plays and formations where you're not using those concepts. If you're running some of the KC stuff, those specific WR positions aren't as important (deep routes, jet sweeps). And a lot of that is used to dictate the defense to play certain coverages, and then take advantage of that with more prototypical west coast designs. In most offenses, typical WCO concepts, there's only so much space on the field. Typically, only one of your WRs really needs to be a speed threat. The others are sort of going to be occupying space and need to have a more physical presence to make tough, contested catches. 

Of course, the more speed the better. No one is going to pass on speed.

yes, for the most part. The philosophy is equivalent to running a continuity offense in basketball..players and positions are interchangeable. The same play call can have multiple options and multiple looks. It is a spread philosophy that is meant to force the D into M-M, so the mismatches can be exposed. But....you can't run the Eagles O with a limited OL or the ability to horizontally stretch the D. Through injuries and bad breaks, the opposing defense was able to do the dictating with zones. 

The Eagles with no stretch or deep threat meant the Eagles had to play tighter formations to make the running game viable. There weren't as many options available and they did not have the right WR's to overcome the defensive schemes. They were forced to show more 12 personnel out of pure necessity to maintain run-pass abilities. If things work out this year, we will see a better more consistent offense.

 

6 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

yes, for the most part. The philosophy is equivalent to running a continuity offense in basketball..players and positions are interchangeable. The same play call can have multiple options and multiple looks. It is a spread philosophy that is meant to force the D into M-M, so the mismatches can be exposed. But....you can't run the Eagles O with a limited OL or the ability to horizontally stretch the D. Through injuries and bad breaks, the opposing defense was able to do the dictating with zones. 

The Eagles with no stretch or deep threat meant the Eagles had to play tighter formations to make the running game viable. There weren't as many options available and they did not have the right WR's to overcome the defensive schemes. They were forced to show more 12 personnel out of pure necessity to maintain run-pass abilities. If things work out this year, we will see a better more consistent offense.

 

Agreed that most of the parts are interchangeable...

I think the injuries allowed defenses to play more man. We didn't have any WRs who could win 1-on-1, so teams could just double Ertz and suffocate the other WRs. 

The tight formations definitely can keep the defense guessing as far as run vs. pass, but it also shortens the throw and is more about timing. With everything so congested, the offense was on Wentz's back to nickle and dime the team down the field with a bunch of great throws in tight coverage.

As much as the offense has needed speed, they also need WRs who can win 1-on-1. A really good route runner.

2 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

 

The tight formations definitely can keep the defense guessing as far as run vs. pass, but it also shortens the throw and is more about timing. With everything so congested, the offense was on Wentz's back to nickle and dime the team down the field with a bunch of great throws in tight coverage.

As much as the offense has needed speed, they also need WRs who can win 1-on-1. A really good route runner.

Absolutely, but on the final point, there just needs to be one WR who can pull away a safety...route runner or speedster works..

9 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

yes, for the most part. The philosophy is equivalent to running a continuity offense in basketball..players and positions are interchangeable. The same play call can have multiple options and multiple looks. It is a spread philosophy that is meant to force the D into M-M, so the mismatches can be exposed. But....you can't run the Eagles O with a limited OL or the ability to horizontally stretch the D. Through injuries and bad breaks, the opposing defense was able to do the dictating with zones. 

The Eagles with no stretch or deep threat meant the Eagles had to play tighter formations to make the running game viable. There weren't as many options available and they did not have the right WR's to overcome the defensive schemes. They were forced to show more 12 personnel out of pure necessity to maintain run-pass abilities. If things work out this year, we will see a better more consistent offense.

 

We probably ran more 12 than we would have wanted, but I bet we still want to be around at around 45-48 percent. 

In 2018 we ran it 38 percent of the time. The offseason goal was to get Goedert more involved and we bumped it up to 54 percent. 

7 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

Absolutely, but on the final point, there just needs to be one WR who can pull away a safety...route runner or speedster works..

Sure, but speed can help an offense in more ways than just dictating a safety's alignment, of course. Stretching the field horizontally, forcing defenses to play more zone because they won't want to lose track of the speed WRs in man, giving Carson more space to throw into zones. More speed is always a good thing, and this offense has obviously needed it the last couple years, etc.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

We probably ran more 12 than we would have wanted, but I bet we still want to be around at around 45-48 percent. 

In 2018 we ran it 38 percent of the time. The offseason goal was to get Goedert more involved and we bumped it up to 54 percent. 

If the OL holds up and the new additions or returning WR's show just a basic level of competence, then we will get a really good look at what Pederson wants as a scheme percentage...I am a little biased towards the 12 personnel, but I am excited to see if any of the rookies can stick and we see a real diverse scheme.

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

That IDGAF look is telling.  If it turns out that he went off cause someone touched his 4 year old kid, then he’d be justified.  I’d shoot someone too.  And I’m not even a gun guy.  

None of the story makes sense. He was playing poker with someone who allegedly sexually assaulted his kid, got into an argument with someone (not even sure if its the person accused of sexual assault), his best friend breaks up the fight and kicks everyone out, Lattimer comes back and assaults his best friend. 

Kind of just seems like his lawyer is throwing out something to justify him.

3 hours ago, Green Dog said:

Really don't see there being a season this year... 

 

John Oliver is a pretty good comedian, but he's probably not the best if you're looking for policy advice. The dude loves to mix truths with half-truths and straight up propaganda. 

6 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Joe Douglas was a big name brought in as soon as the other football guy was gone. Giving the impression that they always needed a football guy holding Howies hand.

Weidl was not in that same stratosphere of fanfare behind his name. And they didnt bring another guy like Joe Douglas in from the outside this time, finally. And, Weidl has now been under Howie for 4 or 5 years. Hes basically home grown under Howie. Theres no rational way to view him as overseeing Howie, or even his equal. Hes always been under him, and has only grown in to the position he now has. He hasnt been a high profile hire in a prominent position from the outside.

Even if you still call it Weidl's board, his board and his picks will still reflect on Howie more than you could ever pretend all the Joe Douglas picks did. 

Joe Douglas sucked and our last 3 sucky drafts are on him. At this point, if Howie's drafts suck, theyre going to be on him. 

We'll see. I'm sure there's going to be people defending him and putting the blame somewhere else

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

 

Wont that hinder their breathing a little?

1 hour ago, aptosbird said:

If the OL holds up and the new additions or returning WR's show just a basic level of competence, then we will get a really good look at what Pederson wants as a scheme percentage...I am a little biased towards the 12 personnel, but I am excited to see if any of the rookies can stick and we see a real diverse scheme.

The key is the OL, which did not have a great season last year but that is probably because the WRs were taking so long to get open.   The Sangarello movement should help that. Look at our CBs and the other CBs in the NFC East. Only Dallas tends towards bigger CBs  That said only DJax is below 185. So it isn’t as though the bigger CBs will always win in press especially after dealing with Ertz, who is the X a lot of times in the 12 formations. Thing is, other than Bradberry and Awuzie at CB and DJax for the Eagles at WR, most of the CBs are close in weight to most of the WRs so beating press is easily possible.  And the thing with pressing an X, if they have better speed than the CB, that CB had better get a hand on the WR at the line or give up a big play.  
Depending on if JJAW has progressed, I would play Reagor in the slot and at the Z.  Same with Goodwin, if he makes the team.  Play Watkins at X and Hightower at X and slot.  Ward at X and slot.  DJax is starting Z but will get some slot plays.  Expect a rotation. Expect Watkins and Hightower to be inactive as the season starts. 

Everyone will look like Bane.

10 hours ago, ManuManu said:

 Ideally, I think we’d go away from X and Zs. Just move them all over the formation to attack certain matchups and certain statistical trends of that defense (weak vs slots, slow starting right corner, cover 1 man on X down, etc). 

I kind of think that’s the way the league is going to go. Position-less/multiple position players at positions like WR and In the secondary. Kind seeing it this offseason with the eagles secondary. Besides mcleod and slay, id argue the rest of the Starting secondary you could make the case they can lineup nearly anywhere. Maddox can play outside, slot and safety. Parks can play safety and corner. Mills can play corner and attempting safety and i wouldn’t be completely shocked if he plays some linebacker at times. NRC is a slot but i wouldn’t be shocked to see him switch with maddox and get some outside reps. I think you are going to see a league where there’s a lot of interchangeable guys in the secondary who can play multiple positions. i kind of think linebacker is also moving more towards that trend as well  

I also think at WR the z,x and Y is going to begin to be a thing of the past and just move to where a guy has the best matchup against a particular opponent and team. I also believe at some point you are going to have more ty Montgomery type RB/WR. Guys who can lineup across the board at most WR Positions and get Rb carries. I think you are seeing it with mccaffrey and how they use him. I think his next evolution is having him playing WR even more and having another back on the field to confuse defenses. I think Baltimore is going to get creative with dobbins. Kamara was used at times with Ingram in Backfield and he was lined up at WR. i think more of that is coming with better receiving backs and to get more use out of RBs and justifying their secondary contracts  

kind of feel only DL (technically some DE move inside and some DT move outside) and QB won’t be position-less. really some OL play multiple positions but i think that’s only in special cases do they move to the position that’s not their best. But i can see the league moving toward multiple positions secondary players, WRs, And even RBs. To me the nba for years had 1,2,3,4,5 but it’s slowly began changing and eventually just became multiple position/position-less players to get the best guys on the floor and guys learned to play many positions utilizing their skill 

7 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I assumed it meant he showed up to a poker game to confront the guy.  I could be wrong.  And it all could be made up.  The look on his face in the mugshot was "yeah, I threaten to shoot that MFER, and”?

If you caught someone perpetrating that act you would not threaten, you would act. We’ll see what comes out 

8 hours ago, Giddyunc said:

John Oliver is a pretty good comedian, but he's probably not the best if you're looking for policy advice. The dude loves to mix truths with half-truths and straight up propaganda. 

Why would anyone look to a comedien for Policy advice? 

No, I'm talking about the very real possibility of what's going to happen when one of the 2-3 leagues that attempt to start up between now and September have to immediately shut down again because of infection and the effect it will have on the other sports and leagues. 

What he says about the numbers involved for a single game without fans is right.  The way this virus spreads, unless everyone involved is under strict quarantine, week after week in every single city, it's not going to work. 

That's just reality unless something major happens very quickly.

15 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Joe Douglas was a big name brought in as soon as the other football guy was gone. Giving the impression that they always needed a football guy holding Howies hand.

Weidl was not in that same stratosphere of fanfare behind his name. And they didnt bring another guy like Joe Douglas in from the outside this time, finally. And, Weidl has now been under Howie for 4 or 5 years. Hes basically home grown under Howie. Theres no rational way to view him as overseeing Howie, or even his equal. Hes always been under him, and has only grown in to the position he now has. He hasnt been a high profile hire in a prominent position from the outside.

Even if you still call it Weidl's board, his board and his picks will still reflect on Howie more than you could ever pretend all the Joe Douglas picks did. 

Joe Douglas sucked and our last 3 sucky drafts are on him. At this point, if Howie's drafts suck, theyre going to be on him. 

I agree.  This draft has Howie Roseman written all over it.  (With a splash of Doug Pederson)   If I were to guess it was 75% Howie, 25% Doug with input from Weidl, Schwartz and their scouts.  I basically see Weidl as an "executive” scout, where his opinion is taken above the other scouts but he doesn’t make the final call on picks.   Just a guess. 

And personally, (I could be wrong) this could become the best draft in over a decade.   Howie seems to view the team from an outside position, similar to the way some of us view it.  My initial draft grade for this draft is an A-.   I pretty much liked it all from top to bottom.   I wouldn’t of made the Hurts pick but after looking into it, I totally see why they did it and if he ends up becoming a serviceable backup, it could end up being a great value pick there as well. 
 

33 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Dude.  Stop.  You’re over the top.  

Everyone knows you hated the Hurts pick and you aren’t a Howie fan.   Other than the Hurts pick, I thought you were "ok” with the rest of the draft, no?   Anyway, there’s nothing else to discuss about football other than players getting into trouble, etc so might as well talk about the draft.  🤷🏻‍♂️

11 hours ago, Shocker54 said:

I hads a thought today. When they be eventually going to Hurt...would you bring back Chip Kelly to run some RPO spread zone read you know

No cuz then he’d trade Sanders fo a LB and cut Ertz cuz he’s too gangsta ya kno 

 

48 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Dude.  Stop.  You’re over the top.  

Optimism vs pessimism with both declaring objective analysis.   Where do we meet?  In hope.  We all hope Howie nailed it.  Reagor is a good rookie that makes it obvious he has #1 genes.  Hurts is a great back up that helps us for a couple seasons before being traded for something enticing.  Taylor becomes a coverage demon and sideline to sideline highlight reel at LB, Wallace becomes a good starter for the next 7 years, and all the rest become good back ups, ST stars, occasional starters that have their moments of glory.

I really liked the reagor pick, didn't like the hurts pick, and liked wallace. If reagor/Wallace become high level starters and we can get solid contributions from Taylor and at least one of the late round picks it will have been a good draft that will always be marred by the hurts pick, unless hurts pulls a Foles and wins a championship. But I don't see that happening or ever getting more than a 2nd back in a trade.

10 minutes ago, devpool said:

I really liked the reagor pick, didn't like the hurts pick, and liked wallace. If reagor/Wallace become high level starters and we can get solid contributions from Taylor and at least one of the late round picks it will have been a good draft that will always be marred by the hurts pick, unless hurts pulls a Foles and wins a championship. But I don't see that happening or ever getting more than a 2nd back in a trade.

 Such a dumb pick. With all their needs you don't waste a 2nd on gambling you can spin it into a first. You don't draft a QB with a young one on the roster with a hundred million contract. 

15 minutes ago, devpool said:

I really liked the reagor pick, didn't like the hurts pick, and liked wallace. If reagor/Wallace become high level starters and we can get solid contributions from Taylor and at least one of the late round picks it will have been a good draft that will always be marred by the hurts pick, unless hurts pulls a Foles and wins a championship. But I don't see that happening or ever getting more than a 2nd back in a trade.

If they end up getting a 2nd back in a trade for Hurts, it would be a stellar pick.  Basically you are getting a serviceable backup QB on a rookie deal for 4 years with zero draft capital invested.  No way could you ever get that type of value in a trade or on the free agent market. And if Hurts comes in and wins a few games in the process (If Wentz gets hurt) that would be the cherry on top. 

9 minutes ago, devpool said:

I really liked the reagor pick, didn't like the hurts pick, and liked wallace. If reagor/Wallace become high level starters and we can get solid contributions from Taylor and at least one of the late round picks it will have been a good draft that will always be marred by the hurts pick, unless hurts pulls a Foles and wins a championship. But I don't see that happening or ever getting more than a 2nd back in a trade.

I love the Reagor pick. Guys falling because of a bad combine are usually the biggest steals in the draft. As far as the Hurts pick, I hate it because his film is pretty bad. He missed a lot of open receivers and made bad reads with plenty of time to throw. But they saw something, and if he turns into a really good qb, you can't argue with the pick. Taylor is a freak athlete, and this draft was about getting faster, so I guess he's what they were looking for. The one thing I would note is that the team's scheme allows for linebackers to make plays. Gerry could have made a ton of big plays last year if he could only tackle. So I don't see it as a bad thing that they got a faster guy who might be a better tackler in the third round. It seems like a pretty good risk/reward pick. 

Off topic i have never appreciated a haircut more than now

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Off topic i have never appreciated a haircut more than now

Truth.