1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I only subscribe for the pictures. 

There's pictures?!?!?!?!? 

 

 

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I hope coaches use this.  I think coaches will favor it in situations they would normally use an onside kick.  The only blow back will be if it is too successful.  

31 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I don't think I agree with an untimed down. Maybe double or triple the time but they could stall the end of the game forever if there is no time

20 minutes ago, greend said:

I don't think I agree with an untimed down. Maybe double or triple the time but they could stall the end of the game forever if there is no time

What makes you say that? 

13 hours ago, ManuManu said:

 

Winning another SB is more important than bringing the band back together

22 minutes ago, greend said:

I don't think I agree with an untimed down. Maybe double or triple the time but they could stall the end of the game forever if there is no time

How? It's one down, you either convert or you don't. Next play the clock starts.

2 minutes ago, Thrive said:

What makes you say that? 

Am I confused by the untimed down part?

23 minutes ago, greend said:

I don't think I agree with an untimed down. Maybe double or triple the time but they could stall the end of the game forever if there is no time

It means the clock doesn't run. They still have to get it off in the same amount of time. 

My bad folks carry on.

Play clock runs, game clock doesn't. Same thing as an extra point

The rule is to avoid a team scoring with 5 seconds left, not kicking off, then running a play where the QB runs around for a second of two then chucks the ball in the air. Game over. 

48 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I hope coaches use this.  I think coaches will favor it in situations they would normally use an onside kick.  The only blow back will be if it is too successful.  

As far as I know, it hasn't passed yet.  So, no coaches can 'use' it yet.

 

 

I get why they changed the OT rule, but frankly, it's unnecessary.  If a coach has the cajones to do this in OT, and take the chance of putting your opponent in to easy FG position to start if you can't convert on 4th and 15, then so be it.  The defense will need to hold for one down, then your offense goes to work already in scoring position, and with the current rule remaining that the first TD wins immediately, it would be quite the gamble by the coach calling for the attempt.  The stats for teams scoring TDs that start inside their opponent's territory is striking compared to the teams needing to go the length of the field.   

 

My biggest concern is the ticky tack 5 yard defensive holding call being an automatic first down.  The officials would need to be coached to make that call only to be made if a player is egregiously affected.  If they want to call it... give the 5 yards, but not the automatic conversion.  Similarly for DPI... if the infraction is beyond the first down marker, then sure, give them the conversion (again, only on egregious infractions), but if the infraction is short of the sticks, then the ball should be respotted and the offense should be forced to convert the new down... 4th and 10, 4th and 3, whatever.   The issue for me is the officiating of this down, not the coaches taking calculated risks.  

A lot of you don't venture out of the blog

 

 

What's the plan if the season starts and a few weeks in a team has multiple players test positive? How does that impact IR and the roster size? Would the season be suspended?

 

10 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

A lot of you don't venture out of the blog

 

 

It’s pretty big news down here in Central Florida.   Doubt they launch today though.   It’s raining now and thunderstorms all afternoon. 
 

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I get why they changed the OT rule, but frankly, it's unnecessary.  If a coach has the cajones to do this in OT, and take the chance of putting your opponent in to easy FG position to start if you can't convert on 4th and 15, then so be it.  The defense will need to hold for one down, then your offense goes to work already in scoring position, and with the current rule remaining that the first TD wins immediately, it would be quite the gamble by the coach calling for the attempt.  The stats for teams scoring TDs that start inside their opponent's territory is striking compared to the teams needing to go the length of the field.   

My biggest concern is the ticky tack 5 yard defensive holding call being an automatic first down.  The officials would need to be coached to make that call only to be made if a player is egregiously affected.  If they want to call it... give the 5 yards, but not the automatic conversion.  Similarly for DPI... if the infraction is beyond the first down marker, then sure, give them the conversion (again, only on egregious infractions), but if the infraction is short of the sticks, then the ball should be respotted and the offense should be forced to convert the new down... 4th and 10, 4th and 3, whatever.   The issue for me is the officiating of this down, not the coaches taking calculated risks.  

I completely agree with you. I honestly don't like the proposal because of the second part you mention. A cheap holding and they get a 1st and 10. The sky judge could solve this though. Also, even though I normally embrace changes, this would go a bit too far in terms of modifying the essence of the game IMO.

That said, if they're going to do it, they should just let it be without limitations. Let coaches go for it as many times as they want and in OT. 

13 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

What's the plan if the season starts and a few weeks in a team has multiple players test positive? How does that impact IR and the roster size? Would the season be suspended?

 

They don't know.

But to make this work, I would anticipate some sort of supplemental reserve list for players that need to be quarantined for just two weeks.  

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Care to go into depth on what regression you are specifically referring to?

Carson was 1st in QBR in 2017, 12th in 2018, 11th in 2019.  Dropping in net yards per attempt from 6 to 12 to 16th.  23rd in completion above expectation.  14th in percentage of throws on target. 25th in EPA against Cover 1 and 14th against Cover 3 yet only 16% of his throws were in tight windows. 24th in EPA on drop back on deep passes.  In the pocket 24th. Out of the pocket, which they seemed to realize later in the season, 4th.  It wasn’t just the receivers last year, Carson was a bit off.  Sheil had some interesting info in the article. 

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I get why they changed the OT rule, but frankly, it's unnecessary.  If a coach has the cajones to do this in OT, and take the chance of putting your opponent in to easy FG position to start if you can't convert on 4th and 15, then so be it.  The defense will need to hold for one down, then your offense goes to work already in scoring position, and with the current rule remaining that the first TD wins immediately, it would be quite the gamble by the coach calling for the attempt.  The stats for teams scoring TDs that start inside their opponent's territory is striking compared to the teams needing to go the length of the field.   

 

My biggest concern is the ticky tack 5 yard defensive holding call being an automatic first down.  The officials would need to be coached to make that call only to be made if a player is egregiously affected.  If they want to call it... give the 5 yards, but not the automatic conversion.  Similarly for DPI... if the infraction is beyond the first down marker, then sure, give them the conversion (again, only on egregious infractions), but if the infraction is short of the sticks, then the ball should be respotted and the offense should be forced to convert the new down... 4th and 10, 4th and 3, whatever.   The issue for me is the officiating of this down, not the coaches taking calculated risks.  

Agreed.  This introduces officiating to the outcome.  As opposed to the onside kick, which was solely a matter of execution.

If you could do the 4th and 15 to start overtime.....

 

what would be the point of the coin toss? 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

 

Shouldn’t be an untimed play.  A kickoff is not untimed if the ball is put into play.  Should be similar on the 4 and 15.
Upon kickoff, the clock is started when a member of the receiving team touches the ball, or, if the member of the receiving team touches the ball in their end zone, carries the ball out of the end zone. The clock is stopped when that player goes out of bounds or is tackled (when the play is blown dead.) (The clock never starts if the receiving team downs the ball in their own end zone for a touchback.) The clock is then restarted when the offense snaps the ball for their first play.

41 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

As far as I know, it hasn't passed yet.  So, no coaches can 'use' it yet.

 

 

I get why they changed the OT rule, but frankly, it's unnecessary.  If a coach has the cajones to do this in OT, and take the chance of putting your opponent in to easy FG position to start if you can't convert on 4th and 15, then so be it.  The defense will need to hold for one down, then your offense goes to work already in scoring position, and with the current rule remaining that the first TD wins immediately, it would be quite the gamble by the coach calling for the attempt.  The stats for teams scoring TDs that start inside their opponent's territory is striking compared to the teams needing to go the length of the field.   

 

My biggest concern is the ticky tack 5 yard defensive holding call being an automatic first down.  The officials would need to be coached to make that call only to be made if a player is egregiously affected.  If they want to call it... give the 5 yards, but not the automatic conversion.  Similarly for DPI... if the infraction is beyond the first down marker, then sure, give them the conversion (again, only on egregious infractions), but if the infraction is short of the sticks, then the ball should be respotted and the offense should be forced to convert the new down... 4th and 10, 4th and 3, whatever.   The issue for me is the officiating of this down, not the coaches taking calculated risks.  

I wonder what happens if a team scores on this attempt.  Theoretically, a team could be down 15 with one second left and still win the game.  Very unlikely.

I wonder if teams will try to get quite a bit more than the 15 if attempting this.  It’s not timed and the game clock won’t start until the start of the next play, so it saves time for the team that is down.

9 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Carson was 1st in QBR in 2017, 12th in 2018, 11th in 2019.  Dropping in net yards per attempt from 6 to 12 to 16th.  23rd in completion above expectation.  14th in percentage of throws on target. 25th in EPA against Cover 1 and 14th against Cover 3 yet only 16% of his throws were in tight windows. 24th in EPA on drop back on deep passes.  In the pocket 24th. Out of the pocket, which they seemed to realize later in the season, 4th.  It wasn’t just the receivers last year, Carson was a bit off.  Sheil had some interesting info in the article. 

I don't have the Athletic and don't plan to subscribe.  I appreciate you sharing your takeaways.

But, to rebutt this a little.  In 2017, Carson had the deep threat piece with Torrey Smith... and Nelson Agholor actually played as a legitimate NFL WR.  He also had the benefit of a reliable running game, that teams had to respect.  They could hit you with Blount, Ajayi, and even Clement.  

In 2018, the deep threat went out in Week 1, never to return.  Agholor regressed back to being disappointing, not nearly as bad as in 2019 though.  And the leading rusher in 2018 was Josh Adams, as they lost Sproles (again), Ajayi (not surprisngly, given his issues coming to the NFL), and even Clement.  As a result, he was forced to rely on his TEs much more, and the team moved towards a 12 personnel which will impact YPA.  

In 2019, the deep threat once again went out in Week 1.  Agholor regressed even further, and they lost all semblance of a legitimate WR corps by about week 3.  Each week from that point on was a patch work of injured Alshon, inept Agholor, confused JJAW or completely unnecessary Mack Hollins.  Then they moved to bring back an injured Jordan Matthews, and then to bring in not one, not two but THREE different practice squad WRs to finish out the season, and won 4 straight with that cast of characters at WR.  One week they even had 40 year old Josh McCown running routes in practice due to the dearth of healthy talent at the WR position... Yet, they won 9 games, and made the playoffs.

These stats you are quoting are wonderful... except that they aren't really meaningful, as they don't take into account the constantly changing cast of characters around Wentz.  The passing game is about familiarity and knowing where the receiver is supposed to be, and the receiver actually getting there.  Wentz didn't have that, and finished the season with guys that he likely rarely worked with during the offseason, as they were so far down the depth chart.  

I'm not saying that Wentz is beyond criticism, but this criticism is fairly stacked against him.  Of course his YPA will be lower, when he doesn't have any speed options.  Of course, his accuracy and timing will suffer as Desean goes out, Alshon gets dinged and then goes out.  JJAW runs into his teammates.  Hollins cares more about ST than WR.  And then they bring in Jordan Matthews, Shelton Gibson, Greg Ward, Robert Davis and Deontay Burnett.    And as you point out, he did do well out of the pocket, because that's where the pure athleticism could take over and he wasn't bound to timing and the receivers being in the exact spot they are supposed to be at the exact right moment.  

Wentz missed a number of throws last year, missed some reads, and missed some opportunities.  That said, given the changing cast around him, the fact that he did take chicken s---- and turned it into chicken salad should be lauded.  I'd be interested much more in his mechanics being broken down than his stats.  Stats are almost always colored by the supporting cast.   

12 minutes ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

If you could do the 4th and 15 to start overtime.....

 

what would be the point of the coin toss? 

To decide who has to roll the dice with the odds stacked against them... 4th and 15 is hardly a 'gimme' conversion.