6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I dont think its anyone's place to tell Drew he dropped the ball at all. And Drew should not listen. Thats a matter of opinion which he should be entitled to. He said nothing wrong. The ball was dropped when kneeling was the means of protesting. Thats the ball that was dropped.

Let me preface this by saying I was against NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem.  My biggest gripe with it was that I didn’t think that was the time nor the  place to hold a protest.  That said, whether you agree with Brees or not, his initial statement was probably one of the most bone-headed statements one could make in terms of "timing”.  And the fact that he didn’t even mention George Floyd in it just makes you wonder why would he say anything like that now?
 

 Everyone knows where he stands when it comes to the National Anthem so why did he feel the need to double-down on it days after a man was murdered on video; when at least half the country is absolutely outraged, ready to burn it down?  Time and place for everything and yes, Drew Brees absolutely dropped the ball when it comes to the timing of his statement. 

6 minutes ago, greend said:

I spend a little time in Cvon from time to time and that is of course where discussion like we've had today is supposed to be had. I have to say that the blog handled it way better than I've ever seen it handled over there.

I appreciate the discussion that those that agreed and those that have disagreed with me have had together here today. I appreciate that we could have this discussion for the most part civilly.

I said it the other day, CVON is a cesspool. 

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

So during all of the "protesting" there have been more deaths.  Why is there no outcry for justice for David Dorn?  Former police chief, Affrican American shot and killed on FB Live while defending a storefront.  People just watched him bleed out on a live feed.  

I'm not trying to downplay the death of George Floyd.  First and foremost we need to clean up our police officers and do they best we can to weed out the bad apples and train new officers proper policing techniques.  However, if our cities are being destroyed in the name of  justice and equality, David Dorn better be right up there with George Floyd.  

Yes loss of any life is tragic and the protesters are protesting systemic racial injustice and inequality.

Violence towards other people isnt productive but conflating this man situation with floyds isnt either.

David Dorn wasnt a victim of police brutality, he was a victim of violence.

Which isnt ok but shouldnt take away from the root cause of floyds death. Which is racism.

 

15 minutes ago, justrelax said:

So dialogue and rational discussion are out.

nah. I think to have that they should avoid telling him he dropped the ball. Thats not true. 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

nah. I think to have that they should avoid telling him he dropped the ball. Thats not true. 

Which he acknowledged.

7 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Drew Brees entitled to his opinion, Kapernick not entitled to kneel.

What if drew brees knelt and Kap said what brees said?

Would you feel the same?

hell yes. I would hate to see anyone kneel during the anthem. 

And you compared apples to oranges. How about this. Brees is intitled to his opinion. And Kaepernick is entitled to his opinion. Neither should ever knee for the anthem. Same standards for everyone.

Hell, I guess thatd be too rational and not accusatory of racism so we cant have it that easy. We need to try to paint people in to a corner and be divisive. 

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Let me preface this by saying I was against NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem.  My biggest gripe with it was that I didn’t think that was the time nor the  place to hold a protest.  That said, whether you agree with Brees or not, his initial statement was probably one of the most bone-headed statements one could make in terms of "timing”.  And the fact that he didn’t even mention George Floyd in it just makes you wonder why would he say anything like that now?
 

 Everyone knows where he stands when it comes to the National Anthem so why did he feel the need to double-down on it days after a man was murdered on video; when at least half the country is absolutely outraged, ready to burn it down?  Time and place for everything and yes, Drew Brees absolutely dropped the ball when it comes to the timing of his statement. 

because it wasnt really a statement like he released a statement on the topic. He was answering a question in an interview. Context...

13 minutes ago, greend said:

I spend a little time in Cvon from time to time and that is of course where discussion like we've had today is supposed to be had. I have to say that the blog handled it way better than I've ever seen it handled over there.

I appreciate the discussion that those that agreed and those that have disagreed with me have had together here today. I appreciate that we could have this discussion for the most part civilly.

thats what I said yesterday to 4for4 when he told us to take this to CVON. You cant. They cant handle it. 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

hell yes. I would hate to see anyone kneel during the anthem. 

And you compared apples to oranges. How about this. Brees is intitled to his opinion. And Kaepernick is entitled to his opinion. Neither should ever knee for the anthem. Same standards for everyone.

Hell, I guess thatd be too rational and not accusatory of racism so we cant have it that easy. We need to try to paint people in to a corner and be divisive. 

Forced nationalism sounds like something from a certain regime in germany.

The people that died to give you the right to choose to stand for the anthem also died to give me and you the right to kneel for it.

Forced nationalism isnt the standard that were all held to. 

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

We'll see

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Forced nationalism sounds like something from a certain regime in germany.

The people that died to give you the right to choose to stand for the anthem also died to give me and you the right to kneel for it.

Forced nationalism isnt the standard that were all held to. 

no reason to kick them in the nads for earning us the right to do so. Whether you can and whether you should should always be considered together. Kaepernick can, but should not. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

no reason to kick them in the nads for earning us the right to do so. Whether you can and whether you should should always be considered together. Kaepernick can, but should not. 

While I don’t agree with you here, I feel your argument here is valid. I have not always found it to be so.

3 hours ago, Desertbirds said:

Does not consider police encounters

50 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Why aren’t they firing the police Chief that allowed this cop to continue to work after 18 complaints?

The chief is accountable for the officers on the force, no question.  As someone who has managed in union environments for many years, though, the easy answer to your question is the frickin' union keeps these guys employed and they are most responsible for keeping crappy employees, regardless of industry.  As crucial as it is for police officers not to be propped up by a union, the same argument could be made for nurses.  I'd prefer neither be unionized at all, because you just cannot afford lousy employees in either job.

Having said that, Chauvin was a cop for 18 years.  Is 18 complaints in 18 years a lot for a police officer?  It seems like an occupation where some sort of confrontation would be common.  I'm not sure if anyone has said whether his 18 complaints were grossly above the other cops in the department, or par for the course at one per year.

3 hours ago, WentzFan11 said:

I don’t know whether that is true or not, but even if it is you’re still not understanding.

 

2 encounters are not equal. The police aren’t approaching a white person the same way they do a black person. That is the issue. 

Its true

What do you mean theyre not approaching white people the same?  Thats just not true.  Ive had a gun pulled on me for a traffic stop

The uncomfortable fact is that black people commit crime at a higher rate and therefore have more police encounters.

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

no reason to kick them in the nads for earning me the right to do so. Whether you can and whether you should should always be considered together. Kaepernick can, but should not. 

You dont get to decide how people choose to express their freedom thats not how America works, not yet at least.

Who are you to say what one should or shouldnt do?

As i said before the people that died for my right to salute a flag also did for my right not to.

If they wanted forced nationalism they would have joined the germans,not fight them. Had they wanted everyone in the country to follow one set of beliefs they wouldnt have declared independence from England and fought and died to establish this country and the rights and freedoms they previously were not afforded.

All those people didnt sacrifice their lives to force me to stand at an anthem for a flag. Thats not patriotic or freedom.

Just now, Utebird said:

You dont get to decide how people choose to express their freedom thats not how America works, not yet at least.

Who are you to say what one should or shouldnt do?

As i said before the people that died for my right to salute a flag also dad for my right not to.

If they wanted forced nationalism they would have joined the germans not fight them. Had they wanted everyobe in the country to follow one set of beliefs they wouldnt have declared independence from England and fought and died to establish this country and the rights and freedoms they previously were not afforded.

All those people didnt sacrifice their lives to force me to stand at an anthem for a flag. Thats not patriotic or freedom.

Its not my original idea to say "Dont offend people" So its not really "me" deciding what Kaepernick shouldnt do. Its just common decency, which he clearly lacks. 

 

54 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

so stupid. So whats next season? December to march or are they permanently on this new schedule? They screwed up their entire next season. 

Not stupid at all.  They make the majority of their money through the playoffs.  So, they have ensured not to miss any money for the playoffs this year.  They can run next season a little longer than normal on the calendar and get the full playoffs next year (maybe with an added 'play-in' scenario for bubble teams, similar to this year), and then start on time for 2021-2022.   They are looking to maximize their revenue the best they can after this.  This is all coming down to TV revenue, given they have no idea when fans will be able to attend again, so they want the most playoffs they can get, not regular season games with minimal TV money.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its not my original idea to say "Dont offend people" So its not really "me" deciding what Kaepernick shouldnt do. Its just common decency, which he clearly lacks. 

The Washington Post has a poll about protesting during the anthem. 53 percent said it was never appropriate. I think calling it common decency is a stretch. 

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

because it wasnt really a statement like he released a statement on the topic. He was answering a question in an interview. Context...

 

Right.  And in a sense, he probably was "baited" to an extent but at the same time, as a public figure (hero to some), he should know that having that conversation at this time is ill-advised, no?

Anyway, after reading his apology, he seems to be aware of that now and from everything I know about Drew Brees, he's a stand-up guy.   The more troublesome part (for me, anyway) are the folks that are saying he shouldn't have apologized.   He apologized for the "insensitivity" of his comments and for "hurting" people at this time.....NOT for the way he "feels" about the National Anthem debate.  

37 minutes ago, justrelax said:

So dialogue and rational discussion are out.

These things are not necessary when one has a Manichean worldview. 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

Not stupid at all.  They make the majority of their money through the playoffs.  So, they have ensured not to miss any money for the playoffs this year.  They can run next season a little longer than normal on the calendar and get the full playoffs next year (maybe with an added 'play-in' scenario for bubble teams, similar to this year), and then start on time for 2021-2022.   They are looking to maximize their revenue the best they can after this.  This is all coming down to TV revenue, given they have no idea when fans will be able to attend again, so they want the most playoffs they can get, not regular season games with minimal TV money.

they could have still had playoffs. Dont need to be this long. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its not my original idea to say "Dont offend people" So its not really "me" deciding what Kaepernick shouldnt do. Its just common decency, which he clearly lacks. 

A foolish man takes offense when none is intended a bigger fool when offense is intended.

By your logic people shouldnt be protesting, some people find it offensive.

You know who a lot of white people found offensive? MLK.

Should   MLK have just kept his mouth shut out of " common decency"

 

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The Washington Post has a poll about protesting during the anthem. 53 percent said it was never appropriate. I think calling it common decency is a stretch. 

the specific issue of protesting the anthem in todays F'd up world of liberal wack jobs? No, Im not surprised. But the idea of common decency should be common. Its part of the term. 

Just now, Utebird said:

A foolish man takes offense when none is intended a bigger fool when offense is intended.

By your logic people shouldnt be protesting, some people find it offensive.

You know who a lot of white people found offensive? MLK.

Should   MLK have just kept his mouth shut out of " common decency"

 

well this has got to be one of the most hypocritical things said in here when it comes to racial relations. 

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

A foolish man takes offense when none is intended a bigger fool when offense is intended.

By your logic people shouldnt be protesting, some people find it offensive.

You know who a lot of white people found offensive? MLK.

Should   MLK have just kept his mouth shut out of " common decency"

 

This one is just completely untrue. 

With your first two lines and one of your earlier posts its clear that youre done with any semblance of productive discussion.