8 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Whats the root cause of stealing???Whats the root cause of property damage???

Depends.   Doesn’t make it lawful and when you hurt others, I don’t morally think it is right.  We probably won’t agree on this.   

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Probably best to have a full season next year then with all 30 teams n stuff.

Considering that they don't have a clue if fans will be able to be in attendance, they are focusing on the one thing that they know they have going for them... TV contracts.  TV networks pay more for playoff games than anything else.  So, they are looking to maximize the money for the part of the season that they know pays the most.  I can't blame them.  

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Not conducive to a meaningful discussion. You gotta do better. 

All right, I will.  You have posted somethings today that I disagree.  I think some were just to poke.  I could be wrong.  As to Kaeperick’s kneeling, you know as well as I that it had nothing to do with veterans or the military.  The fact that he went from sitting to kneeling after discussing with a veteran showed an attempt at compromise.  The flag is not just a symbol of their sacrifice or honor.   It is a symbol of our country, warts and all.  I am just as offended by Trump’s hugging of the flag as you are by Kaepernick’s kneeling but both apparently have a reason and a message behind them.  I think the method drowns the message for both.  I stand and put my hand over my heart.  I understand both the 53% and the 47%.  Maybe we all could learn something from Villanueva’s action. He seemed to get both too.

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

i almost didnt want to like this. l appreciate the clarity of the message. The message itself is discouraging

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Considering that they don't have a clue if fans will be able to be in attendance, they are focusing on the one thing that they know they have going for them... TV contracts.  TV networks pay more for playoff games than anything else.  So, they are looking to maximize the money for the part of the season that they know pays the most.  I can't blame them.  

but how many regular season games are they set to lose in a drastically shortened 2020-21 season? Lots of TV games there too. And if they dont shorten it, when the heck can they ever get back on schedule?

I think they need to have these playoffs, but they shoulda went with the super interesting world cup style group stage tournament proposal that would have resulted in an 8 team playoff after the group stage. Make those series best of 5 or even best of 3 and get this done so next season can be as normal and as full as possible. 

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Considering that they don't have a clue if fans will be able to be in attendance, they are focusing on the one thing that they know they have going for them... TV contracts.  TV networks pay more for playoff games than anything else.  So, they are looking to maximize the money for the part of the season that they know pays the most.  I can't blame them.  

I think we are getting to the point where we will see the Swedish model.   So they already check clear bags and run folks through metal detectors at a lot of venues.  They add to that a temperature requirement and a mask requirement.  I am not sure if they do social distancing but I also suspect attendance may impact that some anyway.  

10 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

All right, I will.  You have posted somethings today that I disagree.  I think some were just to poke.  I could be wrong.  As to Kaeperick’s kneeling, you know as well as I that it had nothing to do with veterans or the military.  The fact that he went from sitting to kneeling after discussing with a veteran showed an attempt at compromise.  The flag is not just a symbol of their sacrifice or honor.   It is a symbol of our country, warts and all.  I am just as offended by Trump’s hugging of the flag as you are by Kaepernick’s kneeling but both apparently have a reason and a message behind them.  I think the method drowns the message for both.  I stand and put my hand over my heart.  I understand both the 53% and the 47%.  Maybe we all could learn something from Villanueva’s action. He seemed to get both too.

Intended or not, it most definitely did. And again not needing to ever admit this while forcing Brees to apologize AND still not forgiving him is yet another example of racism against whites in the USA.

Unfortunately Villanueva caught MAJOR heat for still going out on the field to stand for the anthem AND again, was forced to apologize. A veteran, forced to apologize for going out and standing for his national anthem, flag, and fellow soldiers. Despicable. F that organization. Theres no good example to follow there.

I can never sit by and by quiet about THAT injustice in this country. It doesnt mean I dont want the same think african americans are trying to get. But Ill be damned if I stay quiet as they disrespect things that are important to me in order to get there. 

 

8 minutes ago, In2football said:

i almost didnt want to like this. l appreciate the clarity of the message. The message itself is discouraging

"But this city of Houston, this State of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward”. "and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Intended or not, it most definitely did. And again not needing to ever admit this while forcing Brees to apologize AND still not forgiving him is yet another example of racism against whites in the USA.

Unfortunately Villanueva caught MAJOR heat for still going out on the field to stand for the anthem AND again, was forced to apologize. A veteran, forced to apologize for going out and standing for his national anthem, flag, and fellow soldiers. Despicable. F that organization. Theres no good example to follow there.

I can never sit by and by quiet about THAT injustice in this country. It doesnt mean I dont want the same think african americans are trying to get. But Ill be damned if I stay quiet as they disrespect things that are important to me in order to get there. 

 

We will just have to disagree.  Villanueva meant to stand back in the tunnel out of respect for his beliefs and for those he had served to protect so that they could express their beliefs.  He was a hero and a true teammate. 

29 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Depends.   Doesn’t make it lawful and when you hurt others, I don’t morally think it is right.  We probably won’t agree on this.   

There is a theory that suggests looting is an outward expression of ones dissatisfaction with a capitalistic society that one finds unfair. In this case blacks are treated unequally socially and economically and their way at getting nack at a system that exploits them or treats them unfairly is by taking back that capitol in the form of goods. Same with the destroying of property. Property represents capitol and resources and by burning down that capitol one is expressing their dissatisfaction with a system that disproportionately keeps them from owning property.

So if the root causes of looting and rioting is disproportionate distribution of capitol and goods then the solution tl rioting and looting would be to make distribution of goods more proportionate.

There is also an anthropological theory based off observation in nature that competition creates aggression.

Bonobos and Chimpanzees are very similar genetically but their social behavior is vastly different, why? Bonobos live in an area that us flush with food and resources and in an area with more geographical land, chimps live in a smaller geographic area with less food and resources. Chimps form territories and troops snd violently defend those territories where as bonobos function in a matriarchal society where rank or favor is gained through sexual " favors" why the drastic difference? Availability of resources.

Caputalism creates competition for resources, competition for resources leads to aggression and violence for control of those resources.

When one group feels an unequal ability to obtain or control those resources aggression ensues in an attempt to equally distribute the resources and return a sense of fairness and balance.

Blacks for a long time havent had a fair shake in america and they are attempting to take back what they feel was unjustly taken from them.

Is it morally wrong? Slippery slope. is it understandable? To me yes. Is it helpful? Probably not. Is it worse than murder? No.

10 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

We will just have to disagree.  Villanueva meant to stand back in the tunnel out of respect for his beliefs and for those he had served to protect so that they could express their beliefs.  He was a hero and a true teammate. 

he was made to apologize for that! An army officer and ranger. Had to apologize to his team for throwing them under the bus, because he stood for the anthem. Thats extremely sad. 

"This national anthem ordeal has sort of been out of control, and there's a lot of blame on myself," Villanueva, Pittsburgh's starting left tackle, said Monday.

"I made coach (Mike) Tomlin look bad, and that is my fault and my fault only. I made my teammates look bad, and that is my fault."

"Whatever we do we're going to do 100%, we're going to do together," said Tomlin. "We're not going to let divisive times or divisive individuals affect our agenda."

"Unfortunately, I threw (my teammates) under the bus, unintentionally," he said. "Every single time I see that picture of me standing by myself, I feel embarrassed.

An army ranger made to feel embarrassed for standing for his flag. If that doesnt make you sick I dont know what does. 

 

It’s kinda weird the infatuation some people have with objects. I only wish they cared about people that much. 

9 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Is it morally wrong? Slippery slope. is it understandable? To me yes. Is it helpful? Probably not. Is it worse than murder? No.

I very much agree.  However, as understandable as it is, it is still morally wrong.

And the folks that have systemically denied opportunity and resources to those communities are morally wrong as well.

2 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

It’s kinda weird the infatuation some people have with objects. I only wish they cared about people that much. 

yeah. like caring about our veterans. you just continue to refuse to acknowledge the other side. 

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

When Floyd resisted arrest? Yes... 

And then from ther officers who overreacted and stayed on him too long. Yes...

Are you purposefully trying to say incendiary things or just accidentally?

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

"This national anthem ordeal has sort of been out of control, and there's a lot of blame on myself," Villanueva, Pittsburgh's starting left tackle, said Monday.

"I made coach (Mike) Tomlin look bad, and that is my fault and my fault only. I made my teammates look bad, and that is my fault."

"Whatever we do we're going to do 100%, we're going to do together," said Tomlin. "We're not going to let divisive times or divisive individuals affect our agenda."

"Unfortunately, I threw (my teammates) under the bus, unintentionally," he said. "Every single time I see that picture of me standing by myself, I feel embarrassed.

An army ranger made to feel embarrassed for standing for his flag. If that doesnt make you sick I dont know what does. 

Under cooked chicken and spinning rides at carnivals make me sick.

Who "made" Villanueva feel embarrassed?  

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

yeah. like caring about our veterans. you just continue to refuse to acknowledge the other side. 

I don’t think that’s a debate you want to have. 
 

I will say I care more about people than any inanimate object. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

yeah. like caring about our veterans. you just continue to refuse to acknowledge the other side. 

I care about veterans.  Please explain how the actions of athletes during the anthem is harmful to veterans.

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

I said it the other day, CVON is a cesspool. 

Yup, just mostly people egging others on and trolling each other.

7 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I very much agree.  However, as understandable as it is, it is still morally wrong.

And the folks that have systemically denied opportunity and resources to those communities are morally wrong as well.

I think in this particular situation the question as to, is rioting and looting morally wrong? is a. Question of morale relativism.

To the white people who are engaging? yes morally wrong, for the disenfranchised blacks its relative imo.

4 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I knew you lived in DuBois.  Just thought there was a pappys at the mall in Indiana at one time.  

Might have been. When I was 30 years younger there was one in DuBois as well. 

10 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Are you purposefully trying to say incendiary things or just accidentally?

Im purposely trying to open naive eyes to both sides of the story because some of you refuse to acknowledge both.

10 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Under cooked chicken and spinning rides at carnivals make me sick.

Who "made" Villanueva feel embarrassed?  

his team and coach. 

11 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I don’t think that’s a debate you want to have. 
 

I will say I care more about people than any inanimate object. 

its not the object. Its what it represents.

10 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I care about veterans.  Please explain how the actions of athletes during the anthem is harmful to veterans.

look at your cute little word games. You should try posting in CVON. More your speed over there. Im smarter than that. Sorry.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

his team and coach. 

How?  

From the same USA Today article you quoted...

[Villaneuva] said he has no issue with players who protest during the anthem and said several have thanked him for his service.

"I will support all my teammates, and all my teammates and all my coaches have always supported me," said Villanueva

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/steelers/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-national-anthem-pittsburgh-steelers-protest-trump/702056001/