3 hours ago, PrinceKelby said:

Also an option too.

I was just trying to understand what this D is going to look like.

Watch Schwartz not have Slay shadow since he's stubborn to really make it interesting.

😅

But honestly if Slay is on an island and they double whoever is on the other side,what difference does it make if Slay is shadowing anyone?

12 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

its not the object. Its what it represents.

look at your cute little word games. You should try posting in CVON. More your speed over there. Im smarter than that. Sorry.

I don’t care about the American flag or what it represents more than its citizens. What does honoring the flag do? I rather honor the individuals by treating them like human beings and not as numbers. 
 

Want to care about Veterans? Give them free health care. Help support legislation that supports them. You standing up and looking at the flag means nothing when they’re struggling to pay a medical bill from the physical and psychological damage they faced overseas. 

18 minutes ago, Utebird said:

There is a theory that suggests looting is an outward expression of ones dissatisfaction with a capitalistic society that one finds unfair. In this case blacks are treated unequally socially and economically and their way at getting nack at a system that exploits them or treats them unfairly is by taking back that capitol in the form of goods. Same with the destroying of property. Property represents capitol and resources and by burning down that capitol one is expressing their dissatisfaction with a system that disproportionately keeps them from owning property.

So if the root causes of looting and rioting is disproportionate distribution of capitol and goods then the solution tl rioting and looting would be to make distribution of goods more proportionate.

There is also an anthropological theory based off observation in nature that competition creates aggression.

Bonobos and Chimpanzees are very similar genetically but their social behavior is vastly different, why? Bonobos live in an area that us flush with food and resources and in an area with more geographical land, chimps live in a smaller geographic area with less food and resources. Chimps form territories and troops snd violently defend those territories where as bonobos function in a matriarchal society where rank or favor is gained through sexual " favors" why the drastic difference? Availability of resources.

Caputalism creates competition for resources, competition for resources leads to aggression and violence for control of those resources.

When one group feels an unequal ability to obtain or control those resources aggression ensues in an attempt to equally distribute the resources and return a sense of fairness and balance.

Blacks for a long time havent had a fair shake in america and they are attempting to take back what they feel was unjustly taken from them.

Is it morally wrong? Slippery slope. is it understandable? To me yes. Is it helpful? Probably not. Is it worse than murder? No.

I saw pictures and videos of the looters.   They were of all races.  The looting was limited to big businesses.  A lot focused on small businesses.  A lot put into cars.   Arson in small business restaurants and in churches (even us nonbelievers don’t burn churches).  I don’t think I buy the conclusion.  The Watts era riots were different a bit in that a lot of targets were businesses the residents thought were advantage takers and gougers.  Not seeing that so much in 2020.  But I also think it defeats messaging because now there are the victims of the vandalism, arson and looting.  I am unable to justify it.   
BTW, looks like we read the same Discover magazine article.  Interesting but i was not completely in agreement with some of the conclusions. 
I would also argue that being poor in America results in a lot of people not getting a fair shake.   The Uber rich are so focused on preserving and maximizing their wealth at the expense of others.  The tax bill passed by the Ryan Congress is abhorrent to me.  What we have done to the tax code since Carter has more and more oppressed the poor and stagnated the middle class.  

29 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

he was made to apologize for that! An army officer and ranger. Had to apologize to his team for throwing them under the bus, because he stood for the anthem. Thats extremely sad. 

But he wasn’t forced.  He felt he should because it wasn’t his intent. He seemed so sincere and honest.

19 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

yeah. like caring about our veterans. you just continue to refuse to acknowledge the other side. 

You know the majority of the people that feel this way, I've found, are not veterans. Most of us (veterans) understand what and why and while we may not agree with the method, we acknowledge their right to do such and are not so easily offended. We're (mostly) not upset about the whole thing because we understand that the flag and the anthem are not about us, it's about the United States of America. That and we've watched people burn and step on the flag in protest for many years, so kneeling  during the anthem, especially as a compromise intended to still show respect, way down the list of things I might find offensive.

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

its not the object. Its what it represents.

What else did the flag say when it told you it feels disrespected?

You realize that our flag and the earlier versions (like the Join or Die that adorns the Sixers home court) were themselves symbols of protest against tyranny.  So I don't think the flag really cares.

Also, Kaepernick consulted with a veteran to determine the most respectful manner in which to show his frustration.

"And, you know, people - in my opinions and in my experience, kneeling's never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful. But, of course, that's just my opinion."

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee

2 hours ago, Iggles25 said:

An honest question to those posters more knowledgeable than I:

What immediate policy changes could be made to help diffuse the situation? 

Don't choke unarmed people to death. That should be common sense

7 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

How?  

From the same USA Today article you quoted...

[Villaneuva] said he has no issue with players who protest during the anthem and said several have thanked him for his service.

"I will support all my teammates, and all my teammates and all my coaches have always supported me," said Villanueva

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/steelers/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-national-anthem-pittsburgh-steelers-protest-trump/702056001/

I posted the quotes. He got in trouble, as an officer in the army/ranger, for standing for the anthem when the team sat. After that he was made to apologize and say the stuff like you just quoted. This is CVON level stuff from you ignoring my previous post and then asking "How". Waste of my time. Do better please. 

14 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

look at your cute little word games. You should try posting in CVON. More your speed over there. Im smarter than that. Sorry.

Rather than be dismissive, please respond to my question.  I am not trying to be cute and I will respect your point of view.  I am just asking you to defend it.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I posted the quotes. He got in trouble, as an officer in the army/ranger, for standing for the anthem when the team sat. After that he was made to apologize and say the stuff like you just quoted. This is CVON level stuff from you ignoring my previous post and then asking "How". Waste of my time. Do better please. 

What trouble?  His jersey became a best seller.  He wasn't fined or disciplined.

Also, who made him apologize?  He could have easily defended his actions.  He chose not to.  Or are you saying team management made him do so?  Please be specific.

7 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I don’t care about the American flag or what it represents more than its citizens. What does honoring the flag do? I rather honor the individuals by treating them like human beings and not as numbers. 
 

Want to care about Veterans? Give them free health care. Help support legislation that supports them. You standing up and looking at the flag means nothing when they’re struggling to pay a medical bill from the physical and psychological damage they faced overseas. 

Its not supposed to be an either or decision. Thats the problem you and other like minded individuals are creating. Its a divisive narrative that the other side doesnt really believe in though you continue to insist they do.  You create an argument that you can win, but its not at all what anyone else has ever said. Its cheap. It does not progress the civil rights agenda. It perpetuates the bickering as people defend themselves against a made up argument they never tried making. 

 

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

But he wasn’t forced.  He felt he should because it wasn’t his intent. He seemed so sincere and honest.

Surely he felt he should. He salvaged his career. No other choice really. Without an apology from Brees hes likely cut. How sincere do you think he was? Hes not gonna change his mind about the stuff he said "not supporting kneeling" in a day. Thats BS. Forcing an apology never gets a sincere response. Those 2 gentlemen just did what they needed to preserve their livelihood. 

38 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

"This national anthem ordeal has sort of been out of control, and there's a lot of blame on myself," Villanueva, Pittsburgh's starting left tackle, said Monday.

"I made coach (Mike) Tomlin look bad, and that is my fault and my fault only. I made my teammates look bad, and that is my fault."

"Whatever we do we're going to do 100%, we're going to do together," said Tomlin. "We're not going to let divisive times or divisive individuals affect our agenda."

"Unfortunately, I threw (my teammates) under the bus, unintentionally," he said. "Every single time I see that picture of me standing by myself, I feel embarrassed.

An army ranger made to feel embarrassed for standing for his flag. If that doesnt make you sick I dont know what does. 

 

Police murdering a black man and then trying to cover it up makes me a little more sick than Alejandro's feelings

10 minutes ago, twistr said:

You know the majority of the people that feel this way, I've found, are not veterans. Most of us (veterans) understand what and why and while we may not agree with the method, we acknowledge their right to do such and are not so easily offended. We're (mostly) not upset about the whole thing because we understand that the flag and the anthem are not about us, it's about the United States of America. That and we've watched people burn and step on the flag in protest for many years, so kneeling  during the anthem, especially as a compromise intended to still show respect, way down the list of things I might find offensive.

Im not sure its most of you.

Yes, you are right it is about the united states. And the flag does not just represent veterans. It also represents our country. It didnt just disrespect veterans. It disrespects our country too. Thats another issue with kneeling. It disrespects multiple things. Our veterans. Our anthem. And our country. 

It was a compromise that still showed disrespect. A compromise to show respect would be to honor the wish of the veteran he spoke with and stand. And find a different, more respectful way to protest as compromise. The veteran wanted him to stand. A fact lost on many kneel supporters. 

Yo may not find it offensive, and youre not the only vereran I have heard of. But many do. 

 

12 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Rather than be dismissive, please respond to my question.  I am not trying to be cute and I will respect your point of view.  I am just asking you to defend it.

I have actually been posting about this for 2 days. How much more do I need to defend it for you to acknowledge that I have basically spent the last 48 hours doing that? This is silly. I can not defend a point of view that you made up and pretend that I had. Thats what you tried to make me do and I dont fall for that. Thats a game for you to play with the other idiots in CVON. 

34 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I think in this particular situation the question as to, is rioting and looting morally wrong? is a. Question of morale relativism.

To the white people who are engaging? yes morally wrong, for the disenfranchised blacks its relative imo.

No it's not.  The rioting and looting has led to other deaths.  David Dorn's death is not a moral relative death.  It's a tragedy no less tragic than the death of George Floyd.  And why did he die?  Because he dared to go to the store of a friend and tried to stop the looters.  

18 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

its not the object. Its what it represents.

look at your cute little word games. You should try posting in CVON. More your speed over there. Im smarter than that. Sorry.

What does that object represent?  Does it represent Crispus Attucks?  Does it represent Frederick Douglas?   Does it represent the Missouri Compromise?   Does it represent many broken treaties with native Americans?   Does it represent the Chines Exclusionary Act?   Does it represent the Dred Scott decision as well as Brown versus the Topeka  Board of Education?  Does it represent George Wallace standing on the schoolhouse steps?  Does it represent the Dixiecrats?   Does it represent the March on Washington?   Rosa Parks?  The Constitution as originally written to state  in Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Just checking?

That wasn’t a word game.  How Is it harmful to vets?   

54 minutes ago, Utebird said:

There is a theory that suggests looting is an outward expression of ones dissatisfaction with a capitalistic society that one finds unfair. In this case blacks are treated unequally socially and economically and their way at getting nack at a system that exploits them or treats them unfairly is by taking back that capitol in the form of goods. Same with the destroying of property. Property represents capitol and resources and by burning down that capitol one is expressing their dissatisfaction with a system that disproportionately keeps them from owning property.

So if the root causes of looting and rioting is disproportionate distribution of capitol and goods then the solution tl rioting and looting would be to make distribution of goods more proportionate.

There is also an anthropological theory based off observation in nature that competition creates aggression.

Bonobos and Chimpanzees are very similar genetically but their social behavior is vastly different, why? Bonobos live in an area that us flush with food and resources and in an area with more geographical land, chimps live in a smaller geographic area with less food and resources. Chimps form territories and troops snd violently defend those territories where as bonobos function in a matriarchal society where rank or favor is gained through sexual " favors" why the drastic difference? Availability of resources.

Caputalism creates competition for resources, competition for resources leads to aggression and violence for control of those resources.

When one group feels an unequal ability to obtain or control those resources aggression ensues in an attempt to equally distribute the resources and return a sense of fairness and balance.

Blacks for a long time havent had a fair shake in america and they are attempting to take back what they feel was unjustly taken from them.

Is it morally wrong? Slippery slope. is it understandable? To me yes. Is it helpful? Probably not. Is it worse than murder? No.

Sorry but this is horse crap. People steal because they are scum bags. And it's not just blacks that are looting and it's not blacks as a whole. It's a bunch of scumbags that don't believe the laws apply to them. 

27 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

its not the object. Its what it represents.

look at your cute little word games. You should try posting in CVON. More your speed over there. Im smarter than that. Sorry.

Hazelton "I'm not political in TATE" Eagle

The outrage comes from you clowns who simp symbolic gestures over human lives. Where is this same outrage over human lives lost?

And I also saw you said that it was meant to be disrespectful to police and military. How many times does it need to be said that Kaepernick literally made the decision to kneel with the advice from a Navy Seal who discussed this action with him? How many times does Kaepernick specifically have to say it was ONLY about police brutality and racial inequality?

Where has kneeling ever been used as a gesture of disrespect? If that's not following Anthem protocol, then what about all the guys that locked arms, which also isn't protocol? 

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

What does that object represent?  Does it represent Crispus Attucks?  Does it represent Frederick Douglas?   Does it represent the Missouri Compromise?   Does it represent many broken treaties with native Americans?   Does it represent the Chines Exclusionary Act?   Does it represent the Dred Scott decision as well as Brown versus the Topeka  Board of Education?  Does it represent George Wallace standing on the schoolhouse steps?  Does it represent the Dixiecrats?   Does it represent the March on Washington?   Rosa Parks?  The Constitution as originally written to state  in Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Just checking?

That wasn’t a word game.  How Is it harmful to vets?   

It represents not only those things, and though you list a lot of negative things about our country, it also represents all parts of our nations history which INCLUDES how far the country has come since many of those events. 

 

23 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I don’t care about the American flag or what it represents more than its citizens. What does honoring the flag do? I rather honor the individuals by treating them like human beings and not as numbers. 
 

Want to care about Veterans? Give them free health care. Help support legislation that supports them. You standing up and looking at the flag means nothing when they’re struggling to pay a medical bill from the physical and psychological damage they faced overseas. 

And a disproportionate part of the homeless.

1 minute ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Hazelton "I'm not political in TATE" Eagle

The outrage comes from you clowns who simp symbolic gestures over human lives. Where is this same outrage over human lives lost?

And I also saw you said that it was meant to be disrespectful to police and military. How many times does it need to be said that Kaepernick literally made the decision to kneel with the advice from a Navy Seal who discussed this action with him? How many times does Kaepernick specifically have to say it was ONLY about police brutality and racial inequality?

Where has kneeling ever been used as a gesture of disrespect? If that's not following Anthem protocol, then what about all the guys that locked arms, which also isn't protocol? 

Are you serious? They make an announcement to stand and remove your caps. Of course kneeling is disrespectful. I don't care if Kap talked to a navy seal, the navy seal doesn't speak for everyone in the armed forces. I for a fact know military personnel that are offended by his actions. It wasn't well thought out and probably did more harm than good to race relations. 

And here we are 2-3 years later still with the same issues

18 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

What trouble?  His jersey became a best seller.  He wasn't fined or disciplined.

Also, who made him apologize?  He could have easily defended his actions.  He chose not to.  Or are you saying team management made him do so?  Please be specific.

His intended action was to stand in the tunnel thus honoring his beliefs and respecting his teammates.  His teammates had no issue with that.  He did not want to be a spectacle but the media cameras caught him in the tunnel and made a deal out of it.  That triggered his honest heartfelt response that for no proven fact from HE to open my "naive” eyes, HE insists he was made to make.  

50 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Under cooked chicken and spinning rides at carnivals make me sick.

Who "made" Villanueva feel embarrassed?  

Here's what I don't understand.  Everyone is offended anymore.  The minute you offend someone you either get cancelled or have to walk it back and beg for forgiveness.  The flag issue CLEARY offends a lot of Americans and we just have to suck it up deal with it because if not we are racist or don't care.  The double standards in this country are sick.  Something has to be done.