31 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

2 of your 4 points are valid which is why we need to get all the facts which should come out in a trial. The cops have in fact been charged

Mr Floyd had a violent record. He pointed a gun at a pregnant woman during a robbery. Because he didn't pull the trigger is he non violent?

Your point about the skinny white guy is not valid. If Mr Floyd had been a huge muscular white guy with a history of violence i'm damn sure he would have been cuffed. I also seem to remember reading he was pulled out of HIS vehicle. I don't know for sure if that is true or not.

 

He was after a minute and a half of not listening to officers orders to get out of his vehicle. And then he wouldnt get IN to theirs because all of a sudden he was claustrophobic. 

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Of course it doesn’t make it right.  

Between 300 and 1,000 years later, depending on the crime and geography, what exactly is supposed to be done about it now besides lots of guilt and textbook reform?

I don’t even know what country my ancestors were in 300 years ago to know exactly which atrocity I should be flogging myself for.  

A good start would be admitting the genocide like the australians did to the aboriginals.

Another step would be to up hold native treaties and stop stealing land when it suits american corporate capitalistic interests. Like seizing land by force to build a pipeline, or dig for metals or oil 

 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

He was after a minute and a half of not listening to officers orders to get out of his vehicle. And then he wouldnt get IN to theirs because all of a sudden he was claustrophobic. 

So what?  That justifies putting your knee on his neck for 8 minutes while he’s screaming, "I can’t breathe!”? 
 

You’re picking the wrong hill to die on, buddy. 
 

34 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

2 of your 4 points are valid which is why we need to get all the facts which should come out in a trial. The cops have in fact been charged

Mr Floyd had a violent record. He pointed a gun at a pregnant woman during a robbery. Because he didn't pull the trigger is he non violent?

Your point about the skinny white guy is not valid. If Mr Floyd had been a huge muscular white guy with a history of violence i'm damn sure he would have been cuffed. I also seem to remember reading he was pulled out of HIS vehicle. I don't know for sure if that is true or not.

 

Ok so he had a history of violence so did james holmes, after he killed a bunch of people with an AR 15 he was cuffed fitted with a bullet proof vest calmly put in the squad car and then given a drink.

Floyd whether he resisted or not was cuffed in a police car taken out of said police car put on ground while still cuffed and murdered because he allegedly used a counterfeit bill.

 

10 minutes ago, justrelax said:

What bothers me here is that you seem to be saying there is no way forward. 

Genocide bothers me.

A way to go forward?

Apologize for genocide. Uphold treaties made with native nations. Stop breaking those treaties and stealing land for pipelines oil gold.

Give native american nations equal voting rights and equal representation in government.

There are ways to move forward.hiding or disregarding the truth or burying it in the past and ignoring our own history  does nothing for progress it just justifies and minimizes genocide.

15 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Apparently Chauvin (I believe that’s the officer’s name) is in solitary confinement, on suicide watch.   I wouldn’t be surprised if he plead guilty, tbh.  And if he is convicted, he will probably need to be in solitary confinement for the rest of his life (or sentence) because I doubt he will last a single day in general population. 

Yup. Hell be in PC for his whole sentence because the minute hes not hes a dead man walking.

26 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

If you still have doubts about the events leading up to George Floyd's death, how about listening to what the supposed victim said about the case?  The victim himself basically called Floyd "innocent".  And he certainly doesn't seem to agree with the handling of the situation.

"We are deeply saddened and outraged by what happened to George Floyd in front of our store,” Cup Foods owner Mahmoud Abumayyaleh wrote on Facebook.  "There is no justification for the use of reckless force displayed by the police that murdered George Floyd.”

While "there is a state policy that requires stores to call the police in the case of counterfeit bills” — which Cup Foods followed as "routine practice” — "the incidents that led up to this event teach us all an important lesson about dealing with police,” the Minnesota store owner wrote in the posting Sunday.

"By simply following procedure we are putting our communities in danger. Until the police stop killing innocent people, we will handle incidents like this one using non-violent tactics that do not involve police,” he said.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/owner-of-store-that-called-cops-on-george-floyd-slams-police-actions/

 

 

 

That's one of the things that bothers me most; the police should never be called in an instance like this.  Most people passing a counterfeit bill don't even know it's counterfeit; they got the bill from somewhere else.  It's not like he's got an operation set up in his basement.  

The store owner should have informed the customer the bill was counterfeit and told him he could not purchase the merchandise unless he had other currency.  If the customer gets belligerent and refuses to leave the store ...... we're talking about $20 here ..... the situation can still be resolved without calling police.  Simply tell the customer you're doing him a one-time service and will allow him to have the goods -- but if it occurs again he will be prosecuted.

That should be standard policy for anything under $100 IMO 

28 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

So what?  That justifies putting your knee on his neck for 8 minutes while he’s screaming, "I can’t breathe!”? 
 

You’re picking the wrong hill to die on, buddy. 
 

no you idiot I never said that. 

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

I thought there was no way the officer who emptied 7 rounds into a car and killed Castille would be acquitted -- yet he was.

That cop was tragically completely unqualified to be a police officer.

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I thought there was no way the officer who emptied 7 rounds into a car and killed Castille would be acquitted -- yet he was.

That cop was tragically completely unqualified to be a police officer.

I dont know anything about that other one...

But in this video Floyd is clearly distressed already when he gets out of his own vehicle. He says he cant breathe well before the officer ever kneels on him. He also claims he is claustrophobic when they are trying to put him in the cop car. 

Its very possible at least within the shadow of doubt that Floyd was suffering the effects of an anxiety attack. 

Did the arrest make that worse for him? Of course it probably did but it cant be illegal to arrest a person with anxiety.

Though Floyd continually yelled he cant breathe didnt the autopsy also show he did not die of asphyxiation?

It also clearly shows the long struggle/resisting arrest that will give them some excuse for getting physical with him.

I just think theres too much to show that he may not have died directly because of the knee on his neck. 

And though the media constantly says the neck hold isnt allowed by most police, in Minneapolis it is allowed with the perp is actively resisting which Floyd did for quite a while.

Chauvin might get caught on something for his incompetence and I hope he does, but I dont see a 2nd degree murder charge sticking with all these videos. It gives a lot for the defense to argue.

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

no you idiot I never said that. 

I guess you resort to name calling when you’ve lost touch with a situation.  
 

Anyway, you’ve  been going on and on for pages basically saying, "We don’t know all the facts.”  That’s a tired argument; although in a lot of cases, I would tend to agree but not in this one; not based on everything we know, including all the video evidence, the victim’s statements, all the eye-witnesses and the fact that the officer himself is on suicide watch.  Anyone viewing this from a non-biased, pragmatic point of view can clearly see that the officers were wrong in the handling of the situation.
 

 There is no, "Well, we don’t know all the facts about the case” argument here.   Other than Floyd directly attacking/threatening the officers or someone else  with some sort of weapon, (which he clearly did not) is the use of deadly force appropriate. So it doesn’t matter if "We don’t know all the facts.”  The facts that we do know show that the officers involved were clearly wrong in the handling of the situation. 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

I guess you resort to name calling when you’ve lost touch with a situation.  
 

Anyway, you’ve  been going on and on for pages basically saying, "We don’t know all the facts.”  That’s a tired argument; although in a lot of cases, I would tend to agree but not in this one; not based on everything we know, including all the video evidence, the victim’s statements, all the eye-witnesses and the fact that the officer himself is on suicide watch.  Anyone viewing this from a non-biased, pragmatic point of view can clearly see that the officers were wrong in the handling of the situation.
 

 There is no, "Well, we don’t know all the facts about the case” argument here.   Other than Floyd directly attacking/threatening the officers or someone else  with some sort of weapon, (which he clearly did not) is the use of deadly force appropriate. So it doesn’t matter if "We don’t know all the facts.”  The facts that we do know show that the officers involved were clearly wrong in the handling of the situation. 

you really dont know what youre talking about. Shut up.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

you really dont know what youre talking about. Shut up.

Wrong.

 

16 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

Wrong. 

25 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

If Chauvin isnt convicted or is with a slap on his wrist then tatergeddon will be world wide ×100

21 hours ago, Utebird said:

If Chauvin isnt convicted or is with a slap on his wrist then tatergeddon will be world wide ×100

Pretty sure the only way he isn't convicted is if he does himself in prior to his day in court.  (Or someone else gets to him).  And no, I am not justifying him committing suicide or someone else killing him.  I want to see him have his day in court and I want to see him judged in front of a jury of his peers.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

Care to elaborate on that?

Go try to dunk on Embiid and let me know how it goes.

47 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

It doesn't matter.  He will be convicted regardless of what the evidence shows.  This is no longer a legal case.  It is an ideological case.

50 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

By the way, I think Chauvin is not going to be convicted. And then riots will be worse.

The videos give too much to the defense.

 

 

I hope and pray you are wrong.  

43 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I dont know anything about that other one...

But in this video Floyd is clearly distressed already when he gets out of his own vehicle. He says he cant breathe well before the officer ever kneels on him. He also claims he is claustrophobic when they are trying to put him in the cop car. 

Its very possible at least within the shadow of doubt that Floyd was suffering the effects of an anxiety attack. 

Did the arrest make that worse for him? Of course it probably did but it cant be illegal to arrest a person with anxiety.

Though Floyd continually yelled he cant breathe didnt the autopsy also show he did not die of asphyxiation?

It also clearly shows the long struggle/resisting arrest that will give them some excuse for getting physical with him.

I just think theres too much to show that he may not have died directly because of the knee on his neck. 

And though the media constantly says the neck hold isnt allowed by most police, in Minneapolis it is allowed with the perp is actively resisting which Floyd did for quite a while.

Chauvin might get caught on something for his incompetence and I hope he does, but I dont see a 2nd degree murder charge sticking with all these videos. It gives a lot for the defense to argue.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/us/george-floyd-independent-autopsy/index.html

8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/us/george-floyd-independent-autopsy/index.html

only muddies the water even more. Both found different things and neither made mention of the other thing that the other found. Its not like both were found in both autopsies and its a matter of opinion which did him in first. Its 2 completely different reports. That plays in to Chauvin's favor as well. Im telling you.. hes going to get out of this murder charge. 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

only muddies the water even more. Both found different things and neither made mention of the other thing that the other found. Its not like both were found in both autopsies and its a matter of opinion which did him in first. Its 2 completely different reports. That plays in to Chauvin's favor as well. Im telling you.. hes going to get out of this murder charge. 

Here's a twist.  Floyd tested positive for Covid-19.  Dr. Birx said herself that anyone who dies and tests positive for Covid-19 is going to be considered a death by Covid regardless of other outlying issues.  

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here but could something as simple as those statements by her be used in Chauvin's favor?

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Here's a twist.  Floyd tested positive for Covid-19.  Dr. Birx said herself that anyone who dies and tests positive for Covid-19 is going to be considered a death by Covid regardless of other outlying issues.  

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here but could something as simple as those statements by her be used in Chauvin's favor?

COVID goes on the death certificate for them but so do the other health issues that they had going on including the one that may have actually killed them. 

Honestly, Im not sure how that might apply here?

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

COVID goes on the death certificate for them but so do the other health issues that they had going on including the one that may have actually killed them. 

Honestly, Im not sure how that might apply here?

If you go way back, when numbers are being counted as far as Covid deaths.  Birx said if you have Covid on the death certificate then they are counting it as a Covid caused death.