17 minutes ago, justrelax said:

They have the right but that does not make it right. We should not be so fragile that we can't allow ourselves to be exposed to other points of view.

Would i be fragile if i didnt allow myself  to go to a 3rd reich rally?

Having said that this isnt a case of people not willing to hear anothers views that differ from their own, theyve heard the view they dont agree with it so have agreed to not give her a platform to continue that view.

If she were speaking at her own venue than those that want to hear her view whether they agree with it or not they have the right to do so.

Why is it right to say i have to hear some one elses view or its right that i should out of some sense of moral obligation.

I wouldnt ever go to a trump rally because i dont agree with the views presented there and am already aware of them.

The students and faculty are already aware of ivankas view they dont need to hear them again to be "exposed" to them and if they were forced to is in violation of their rights not hers.

We shouldnt be so fragile that we deny people their right to choose not to listen to people that attempt to get them to listen out of some sense of moral or patriotic obligation, that sounds like church.😒

11 minutes ago, RLC said:

I'm a little disappointed with 2 pre-season games. I thought 3 was the sweetspot. It's really the 4th pre-season game that is so tough to watch. 

I'm the opposite. I believe we start out slow because our starters don't get enough snaps in preseason

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Really? The Blaze.  Next you will refer me to OANN or Rachel Maddow.  I have little to no use for slanted news so I didn’t read your article.  Only talking head I like is Cramer.  If I want a conservative view, I would rather read the National Review or George Will.
 
That said, of course their are extremists on both the right and the left that like to silence free speech and try to control other people on what they should or shouldn’t do.  I am relatively libertarian in my views towards both sides.  The problem is when you cross the line.  At universities I attended I listened and questioned Milton Friedman, father of the Chicago school of economics. He had some strong views on Kenseyian economics.  He and I had a spirited discussion of the "robber baron” period of our history but none of it was hate speech. We also had David Duke, whose was hate speech.  There were civil rights activists that couldn’t get on campus to speak.  My point is that I believe allowing discourse with speakers from all sides of the spectrum should be allowed with some restrictions.  
 
But "mob”, "leftists”.  That’s pretty close to biased (hate) speech.  

Strong proponent of this theory in my life as well. It is not about me convincing you that your wrong, or vice versa. It is about having a open dialogue of ideas and learning more about where each person is coming from. You expand your knowledge when you take off the blinders because respectful conversation leads to increased understanding and empathy. Listening to the "other side" allows you to adjust your viewpoint either by adopting little pieces of what they say, or further solidifying your opinions based on new knowledge. Unfortunately, while I like to practice this type of discussion, I largely stay away from any controversial discussions because most people do not have the same intentions. 

17 minutes ago, RLC said:

I'm a little disappointed with 2 pre-season games. I thought 3 was the sweetspot. It's really the 4th pre-season game that is so tough to watch. 

I think the main reason they are pushing for 2 is to limit travel. Lop off the Dolphins PS game and the Eagles don't have to fly, stay in a hotel etc. But I feel bad for the bottom of the roster guys. No joint practices and now 2 preseason games means they won't get a lot of time to put anything on tape to stick somewhere else or on someone elses PS, and now there is no more AAF or XFL to fall back on. 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Agholor inching his way closer to making the Raiders with ruggs hurting himself moving and Bowden dealing with this. 

I think he was on every single Eagles mock draft I saw on the blog.  Great way to start your career dude!  

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Would i be fragile if i didnt allow myself  to go to a 3rd reich rally?

Having said that this isnt a case of people not willing to hear anothers views that differ from their own, theyve heard the view they dont agree with it so have agreed to not give her a platform to continue that view.

If she were speaking at her own venue than those that want to hear her view whether they agree with it or not they have the right to do so.

Why is it right to say i have to hear some one elses view or its right that i should out of some sense of moral obligation.

I wouldnt ever go to a trump rally because i dont agree with the views presented there and am already aware of them.

The students and faculty are already aware of ivankas view they dont need to hear them again to be "exposed" to them and if they were forced to is in violation of their rights not hers.

We shouldnt be so fragile that we deny people their right to choose not to listen to people that attempt to get them to listen out of some sense of moral or patriotic obligation, that sounds like church.😒

Come on now, you’re painting yourself into a corner. The logical end point of your argument is that universities should never invite any outside speakers because any speaker will be objectionable to some students. Indeed, the same argument could be applied to internal speakers.

What in the hell is Ivanka Trump gonna say that is going to make anyone more knowledgeable or informed?

34 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Talk about confusing phrasing. 

Glad I'm not the only one.  

15 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I'm the opposite. I believe we start out slow because our starters don't get enough snaps in preseason

Doug Pederson is 4-0 in season openers (Browns, Washington, Falcons, Washington). 

13 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Actually,  Wichita State University is a public institution. As a public institution, it is subject to the First Amendment.

You are right WSU is a public institution sorry i get so used to talking about BYU as a private institution that i use it as a default in conversation about college😄

Having said that as a public or private school thay are subject to the First amendment and as such the first amendment doesnt mean i have to listen to someone elses speech, as much as it gives a person the right to ramble on about whatever they choose it also give a person the equal right and freedom to not listen.

This conversation is a good example. If you dont agree with what i say you can choose not to listen, the mods can even choose to not give me this platform to speak.

The mods at WSU tech essentially put out a vote to the student body and the student body said Ivanka we dont want to listen to you. Had the mods here taken the same democratic approach maybe i wouldnt be here writing this now😉 yet i would still have the ability to speak to others even if the others are only in my head😳 no one has taken away ivankas freedom of speech they exercised their freedom of speech by choosing not to give her a platform to be listened to. If she has something to say there are plenty of venues thar would gladly give her the oppotunity.

WSU isnt one of them, which is shocking😉 considering how conservative wichita is and how its financially backed by GOP doner Koch brothers whom im sure had a hand in the Invitation to Ivanka in the first place.

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

What in the hell is Ivanka Trump gonna say that is going to make anyone more knowledgeable or informed?

I would argue that seeing an unvarnished (read, no Fox News spin) demonstration of idiocy might be quite informative to Kansans. 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

What in the hell is Ivanka Trump gonna say that is going to make anyone more knowledgeable or informed?

How to get child slaves to make knock off hand bags, inquiring minds at tech colleges want to know😒

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

You are right WSU is a public institution sorry i get so used to talking about BYU as a private institution that i use it as a default in conversation about college😄

Having said that as a public or private school thay are subject to the First amendment and as such the first amendment doesnt mean i have to listen to someone elses speech, as much as it gives a person the right to ramble on about whatever they choose it also give a person the equal right and freedom to not listen.

This conversation is a good example. If you dont agree with what i say you can choose not to listen, the mods can even choose to not give me this platform to speak.

The mods at WSU tech essentially put out a vote to the student body and the student body said Ivanka we dont want to listen to you. Had the mods here taken the same democratic approach maybe i wouldnt be here writing this now😉 yet i would still have the ability to speak to others even if the others are only in my head😳 no one has taken away ivankas freedom of speech they exercised their freedom of speech by choosing not to give her a platform to be listened to. If she has something to say there are plenty of venues thar would gladly give her the oppotunity.

WSU isnt one of them, which is shocking😉 considering how conservative wichita is and how its financially backed by GOP doner Koch brothers whom im sure had a hand in the Invitation to Ivanka in the first place.

The First Amendment does not apply to private universities.

 

1 hour ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

What about any authoritarian, or just "democratic socialist"?  

Im not getting into an asinine argument with a Bernie Bro

The world has seen many attempts at your brand of fake democracy before and it ends in mass death, poverty, and conflict.  No thanks

 

Capitalism--the greatest economic system ever created by man

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

The students and faculty at WSU tech dont agree with the way trump handled the george floyd protests, his call for violence against protesters and his treatment of protestors for a photo op among other things.

Ivanka represents her father and those views. The fact that they voiced their opinion through democratic means into action is a testament to free speech. Keep in mind many college students are socially active and participants in the very protests trump is calling for violence against them.

As for my views as a democratic socialist why should i take your views as a predatory crony capitalist(aka authoritarian) as anything as a tool for the ruling class to continue to oppress and silence the working class. If youre not part of the 1% you are fighting voting speaking against your own interests and freedoms. Whose world view is warped and fantastical???

 

No she doesnt

You want her to so that you have an excuse to ban her from speaking, but she's actually an independent human capable of her own thought

 

And if youre going to argue socialism vs capitalism Ill just point to reality and history.

Capitalism has done more common good, and created the best quality of life for the poorest of the poor, while socialism has been an abject failure every single time.   You can throw "democratic" in there and that may fool some naive high schoolers, but the reality is it fails every time

30 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Would i be fragile if i didnt allow myself  to go to a 3rd reich rally?

Having said that this isnt a case of people not willing to hear anothers views that differ from their own, theyve heard the view they dont agree with it so have agreed to not give her a platform to continue that view.

If she were speaking at her own venue than those that want to hear her view whether they agree with it or not they have the right to do so.

Why is it right to say i have to hear some one elses view or its right that i should out of some sense of moral obligation.

I wouldnt ever go to a trump rally because i dont agree with the views presented there and am already aware of them.

The students and faculty are already aware of ivankas view they dont need to hear them again to be "exposed" to them and if they were forced to is in violation of their rights not hers.

We shouldnt be so fragile that we deny people their right to choose not to listen to people that attempt to get them to listen out of some sense of moral or patriotic obligation, that sounds like church.😒

I fully support your right not to listen to anything you choose not listen to. I absolutely deny your right to judge what others may listen to. All those students and faculty members who uninvited Ivanka denied that right to everyone who might have had some interest in hearing what she had to say. You are the thought police.

13 minutes ago, RLC said:

Doug Pederson is 4-0 in season openers (Browns, Washington, Falcons, Washington). 

Those teams suck. Also they still looked sluggish in the first few games

46 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I find some unintended irony in the third line vis a vis the second.

It would be a good point if the planet hasnt tried both socialism and capitalism before

But we have, the results are in, and capitalism is far and away the superior economic model in every society and every nation on earth

Theres no debate. Its over.  Capitalism won by a landslide

15 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Come on now, you’re painting yourself into a corner. The logical end point of your argument is that universities should never invite any outside speakers because any speaker will be objectionable to some students. Indeed, the same argument could be applied to internal speakers.

Im not painting anything. That may be your logical end point not sure how you got there but ok.

Having said that if that were the end point the student body have the right to voice their opinion and be heard and have a voice to democratically effect change in which case they did.

Im not sure who exactly decided to invite Ivanka if i had to guess id say the Koch brothers and those who make these decisions backed by koch influence made the decision. The faculty not just the students both said no thanks weve heard her views we dont agree with them this commencement is for us and students and we dont care to here her speak so they drafted a petition got the required amount of sigs from faculty and students and she was un invited. I can almost guarantee that if the vote were left up to parents of the students it wouldnt not have passes. WSU is a commuter school and many of the students are local, especially WSU tech and as wichita is majority conservative voters parents would have gladly welcomed Ivanka to come and speak. As is the students in Wichita hold different views than the norm in wichita as evidenced by their vote. Good fir them for exercising their 1st amendment rights in a democratic process.

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I fully support your right not to listen to anything you choose not listen to. I absolutely deny your right to judge what others may listen to. All those students and faculty members who uninvited Ivanka denied that right to everyone who might have had some interest in hearing what she had to say. You are the thought police.

reminds me of the time where the LGBT community at bloomsburg university blocked us from getting chick fil a on campus.

Now they have one, but not till long after I graduated. That just sucks. 

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

It would be a good point if the planet hasnt tried both socialism and capitalism before

But we have, the results are in, and capitalism is far and away the superior economic model in every society and every nation on earth

Theres no debate. Its over.  Capitalism won by a landslide

We have Countries that have universal healthcare and free college right now. They are fine. 

47 minutes ago, Utebird said:

free speech doesnt mean i have to listen to one speaking. I have the right to not listen to walk away or even democratically vote to not invite one or give one a platform to speak. No one has taken away Ivankas right to speak they just dont want to listen to her as they have every right to do so. They also have the right to not provide her with a venue to not be listened to.

If Trump un invited Bernie Sanders to speak at a Trump rally would you claim Bernie Sanders free speech rights had been violated?

Colleges are not private so your position is fatally flawed

but its all about self-serving with you

4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

It would be a good point if the planet hasnt tried both socialism and capitalism before

But we have, the results are in, and capitalism is far and away the superior economic model in every society and every nation on earth

Theres no debate. Its over.  Capitalism won by a landslide

Pure, unadulterated capitalism, without Social Security, Medicare, unemployment compensation, welfare, etc. Yep, must be so.

42 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I think the first preseason game is the toughest. If you discount the excitement in the air that "yay, football is finally back!" it's pretty brutal. At least with the fourth game you have some idea of who has looked good thus far and where the battles for roster spots are being fought.

Agreed 100%