2 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

You mean the ones that saved our bacon in WWII?

They are all pretty much gone.

It's now those damn hippies from the '60s and their "peace and love".

 

Not politician thats for sure

15 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Lazy and stupid people are plentiful yes

 

now the defense budget can certainly be trimmed in a meaningful way but it still pales in comparison to entitlements

When you say entitlements you are excluding corporate subsidies and government welfare and the like no?

You just mean those entitlements that benefit all those lazy dumb homeless starving people, oh and disabled and old people whom are also lazy free loaders dumb and disabled? You know the failures theyre  a drain on society.

Spending money to drop bombs is a federal responsibility which makes us the most federally responsible country in the world and soon to be space😒

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

They are all pretty much gone.

It's now those damn hippies from the '60s and their "peace and love".

 

Sadly true. I think his argument would apply retroactively.

Just now, Utebird said:

When you say entitlements you are excluding corporate subsidies and government welfare and the like no?

You just mean those entitlements that benefit all those lazy dumb homeless starving people, oh and disabled and old people whom are also lazy free loaders dumb and disabled? You know the failures theyre are a drain on society.

Spending money to drop bombs is a federal responsibility which makes us the most federally responsible country in the world and soon to be space😒

I mean all of it. Tax breaks are not welfare per se if you can show an ROI via jobs etc

entitlements are just transfer payments for nothing in return

I'm a cop. I've worked in the NYPD for over 15 years. I've worked almost exclusively in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I've been a regular patrol cop, a plainclothes cop, a detective, and held various supervisor ranks. I would give some more specifics but I won't out of fear of being doxxed (numerous colleagues have received threats via their personal cellphone and the person states the cop's home address). Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on a couple of things.

First of all, everytime I hear the phrase "peaceful protest" I roll my eyes. Obviously I can't give a first-hand account of every protest in every city. However, I've yet to see a peaceful protest since all of this started. The most peaceful protests still include spitting at cops and chants for us to die.  Most of the protests include bricks, cement, glass bottles, and urine/feces thrown at us. I have seen easily a hundred fires started in the streets. Countless police cars were completely demolished and set on fire. There was attempted arson at multiple precincts. We had a cop stabbed in the neck and two other cops shot (though it's still unclear if that's related to any protest). The rioting and looting (which thankfully has stopped) was beyond words. I work with multiple cops that were working during 9/11. Even they say that the rioting and looting during those first couple of days was the most jaw-dropping, unbelievable thing they ever saw. When the media tells you about how peaceful these protests were, just know that they're straight up lying to you. 

Ok, on to some more contentious points. Yes, the institution of policing isn't perfect. Just like health care, education, the family, etc, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's called life. However, the overwhelming majority of criticism being thrown at police is just flat out wrong. I know that, for some of you, that statement alone is enough to cause a meltdown. However, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the criticism is based on lies. Cops are not "hunting down" black people. Police aren't committing a genocide against unarmed black men. There are probably a couple million interactions every year between the police and the public. I'll repeat that, a couple of million! Last year, out of the millions of police encounters, there were 10 unarmed black men killed by police (the majority of those 10 involved justifiable deadly physical force used by the cop). Considering how stressful and sometimes flat out terrifying this job can be, that is a remarkably low number. Want to criticize the police? Go ahead. There are definitely things to criticize (like every institution). However, if you're going to criticize at least know what you're talking about. Just like "putting people in jail for weed" (lie) and "Stop and Frisk terrorizing the black community" (lie), the current narrative that police are systematically killing black men is just not true. It's an intentionally divisive, atrocious lie being pushed by activists and the media. 

I actually have a lot more to say but this rant was already too long. Anyway, Go Birds.

6 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

You mean the ones that saved our bacon in WWII?

I hate to say it but most of them are dead.  I am of the generation of their kids.  They didn’t talk much of the horror.  But on the ground it was the bombings of London, Birmingham and Liverpool and the counter response The firestorm of Dresden, the flattening of Berlin, the napalm bombing of Tokyo etc.  Horrible actions to stop horrible actions like the holocaust, the Bataan death march, the raping of Nanking etc.  Pretty awful.

9 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I hope Bradys arm falls off

Capitalism makes it real easy to tell bc it demands self sufficiency

So those that arent good at capitalism arent self sufficient because theyre dumb and lazy and lets not forget old. Once one reaches a certain age or point in life where one is no longer able to provide for oneself due to apathy and stupidity they should just die unless they were so smart and worked so hard as to accumulate enough resources to be self sufficient.

Capitalism is a cinch all i have to do is work really hard at a " real" job and not be stupid and i can feed and house myself and as many kids as my hard work and intelligence allow.😒

10 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm a cop. I've worked in the NYPD for over 15 years. I've worked almost exclusively in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I've been a regular patrol cop, a plainclothes cop, a detective, and held various supervisor ranks. I would give some more specifics but I won't out of fear of being doxxed (numerous colleagues have received threats via their personal cellphone and the person states the cop's home address). Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on a couple of things.

First of all, everytime I hear the phrase "peaceful protest" I roll my eyes. Obviously I can't give a first-hand account of every protest in every city. However, I've yet to see a peaceful protest since all of this started. The most peaceful protests still include spitting at cops and chants for us to die.  Most of the protests include bricks, cement, glass bottles, and urine/feces thrown at us. I have seen easily a hundred fires started in the streets. Countless police cars were completely demolished and set on fire. There was attempted arson at multiple precincts. We had a cop stabbed in the neck and two other cops shot (though it's still unclear if that's related to any protest). The rioting and looting (which thankfully has stopped) was beyond words. I work with multiple cops that were working during 9/11. Even they say that the rioting and looting during those first couple of days was the most jaw-dropping, unbelievable thing they ever saw. When the media tells you about how peaceful these protests were, just know that they're straight up lying to you. 

Ok, on to some more contentious points. Yes, the institution of policing isn't perfect. Just like health care, education, the family, etc, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's called life. However, the overwhelming majority of criticism being thrown at police is just flat out wrong. I know that, for some of you, that statement alone is enough to cause a meltdown. However, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the criticism is based on lies. Cops are not "hunting down" black people. Police aren't committing a genocide against unarmed black men. There are probably a couple million interactions every year between the police and the public. I'll repeat that, a couple of million! Last year, out of the millions of police encounters, there were 10 unarmed black men killed by police (the majority of those 10 involved justifiable deadly physical force used by the cop). Considering how stressful and sometimes flat out terrifying this job can be, that is a remarkably low number. Want to criticize the police? Go ahead. There are definitely things to criticize (like every institution). However, if you're going to criticize at least know what you're talking about. Just like "putting people in jail for weed" (lie) and "Stop and Frisk terrorizing the black community" (lie), the current narrative that police are systematically killing black men is just not true. It's an intentionally divisive, atrocious lie being pushed by activists and the media. 

I actually have a lot more to say but this rant was already too long. Anyway, Go Birds.

Geez, I'm getting old. I had to look up "doxxed".

16 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

They are all pretty much gone.

It's now those damn hippies from the '60s and their "peace and love".

 

Yep, us damn baby boomers, greedy, failed hippies and worse reflections of our parents. 

43 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Of course.  I hope I am not a purveyor of such to which you are referring.  

Hardly.

18 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm a cop. I've worked in the NYPD for over 15 years. I've worked almost exclusively in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I've been a regular patrol cop, a plainclothes cop, a detective, and held various supervisor ranks. I would give some more specifics but I won't out of fear of being doxxed (numerous colleagues have received threats via their personal cellphone and the person states the cop's home address). Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on a couple of things.

First of all, everytime I hear the phrase "peaceful protest" I roll my eyes. Obviously I can't give a first-hand account of every protest in every city. However, I've yet to see a peaceful protest since all of this started. The most peaceful protests still include spitting at cops and chants for us to die.  Most of the protests include bricks, cement, glass bottles, and urine/feces thrown at us. I have seen easily a hundred fires started in the streets. Countless police cars were completely demolished and set on fire. There was attempted arson at multiple precincts. We had a cop stabbed in the neck and two other cops shot (though it's still unclear if that's related to any protest). The rioting and looting (which thankfully has stopped) was beyond words. I work with multiple cops that were working during 9/11. Even they say that the rioting and looting during those first couple of days was the most jaw-dropping, unbelievable thing they ever saw. When the media tells you about how peaceful these protests were, just know that they're straight up lying to you. 

Ok, on to some more contentious points. Yes, the institution of policing isn't perfect. Just like health care, education, the family, etc, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's called life. However, the overwhelming majority of criticism being thrown at police is just flat out wrong. I know that, for some of you, that statement alone is enough to cause a meltdown. However, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the criticism is based on lies. Cops are not "hunting down" black people. Police aren't committing a genocide against unarmed black men. There are probably a couple million interactions every year between the police and the public. I'll repeat that, a couple of million! Last year, out of the millions of police encounters, there were 10 unarmed black men killed by police (the majority of those 10 involved justifiable deadly physical force used by the cop). Considering how stressful and sometimes flat out terrifying this job can be, that is a remarkably low number. Want to criticize the police? Go ahead. There are definitely things to criticize (like every institution). However, if you're going to criticize at least know what you're talking about. Just like "putting people in jail for weed" (lie) and "Stop and Frisk terrorizing the black community" (lie), the current narrative that police are systematically killing black men is just not true. It's an intentionally divisive, atrocious lie being pushed by activists and the media. 

I actually have a lot more to say but this rant was already too long. Anyway, Go Birds.

Thanks.  As always, we need to see all sides.  That is why I posted that 1968 piece from 60 Minutes.  It is sad that our support for you is still at that level.  It is not simple but it is not restricted to black communities and police interactions either.  That’s treating the symptoms and not the disease. Thanks for your service.  

24 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm a cop. I've worked in the NYPD for over 15 years. I've worked almost exclusively in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I've been a regular patrol cop, a plainclothes cop, a detective, and held various supervisor ranks. I would give some more specifics but I won't out of fear of being doxxed (numerous colleagues have received threats via their personal cellphone and the person states the cop's home address). Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on a couple of things.

First of all, everytime I hear the phrase "peaceful protest" I roll my eyes. Obviously I can't give a first-hand account of every protest in every city. However, I've yet to see a peaceful protest since all of this started. The most peaceful protests still include spitting at cops and chants for us to die.  Most of the protests include bricks, cement, glass bottles, and urine/feces thrown at us. I have seen easily a hundred fires started in the streets. Countless police cars were completely demolished and set on fire. There was attempted arson at multiple precincts. We had a cop stabbed in the neck and two other cops shot (though it's still unclear if that's related to any protest). The rioting and looting (which thankfully has stopped) was beyond words. I work with multiple cops that were working during 9/11. Even they say that the rioting and looting during those first couple of days was the most jaw-dropping, unbelievable thing they ever saw. When the media tells you about how peaceful these protests were, just know that they're straight up lying to you. 

Ok, on to some more contentious points. Yes, the institution of policing isn't perfect. Just like health care, education, the family, etc, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's called life. However, the overwhelming majority of criticism being thrown at police is just flat out wrong. I know that, for some of you, that statement alone is enough to cause a meltdown. However, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the criticism is based on lies. Cops are not "hunting down" black people. Police aren't committing a genocide against unarmed black men. There are probably a couple million interactions every year between the police and the public. I'll repeat that, a couple of million! Last year, out of the millions of police encounters, there were 10 unarmed black men killed by police (the majority of those 10 involved justifiable deadly physical force used by the cop). Considering how stressful and sometimes flat out terrifying this job can be, that is a remarkably low number. Want to criticize the police? Go ahead. There are definitely things to criticize (like every institution). However, if you're going to criticize at least know what you're talking about. Just like "putting people in jail for weed" (lie) and "Stop and Frisk terrorizing the black community" (lie), the current narrative that police are systematically killing black men is just not true. It's an intentionally divisive, atrocious lie being pushed by activists and the media. 

I actually have a lot more to say but this rant was already too long. Anyway, Go Birds.

Stay safe. 

18 minutes ago, Utebird said:

 

Capitalism is a cinch all i have to do is work really hard at a " real" job and not be stupid and i can feed and house myself and as many kids as my hard work and intelligence allow.😒

Now you are getting the hang of it

29 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm a cop. I've worked in the NYPD for over 15 years. I've worked almost exclusively in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I've been a regular patrol cop, a plainclothes cop, a detective, and held various supervisor ranks. I would give some more specifics but I won't out of fear of being doxxed (numerous colleagues have received threats via their personal cellphone and the person states the cop's home address). Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on a couple of things.

First of all, everytime I hear the phrase "peaceful protest" I roll my eyes. Obviously I can't give a first-hand account of every protest in every city. However, I've yet to see a peaceful protest since all of this started. The most peaceful protests still include spitting at cops and chants for us to die.  Most of the protests include bricks, cement, glass bottles, and urine/feces thrown at us. I have seen easily a hundred fires started in the streets. Countless police cars were completely demolished and set on fire. There was attempted arson at multiple precincts. We had a cop stabbed in the neck and two other cops shot (though it's still unclear if that's related to any protest). The rioting and looting (which thankfully has stopped) was beyond words. I work with multiple cops that were working during 9/11. Even they say that the rioting and looting during those first couple of days was the most jaw-dropping, unbelievable thing they ever saw. When the media tells you about how peaceful these protests were, just know that they're straight up lying to you. 

Ok, on to some more contentious points. Yes, the institution of policing isn't perfect. Just like health care, education, the family, etc, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's called life. However, the overwhelming majority of criticism being thrown at police is just flat out wrong. I know that, for some of you, that statement alone is enough to cause a meltdown. However, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the criticism is based on lies. Cops are not "hunting down" black people. Police aren't committing a genocide against unarmed black men. There are probably a couple million interactions every year between the police and the public. I'll repeat that, a couple of million! Last year, out of the millions of police encounters, there were 10 unarmed black men killed by police (the majority of those 10 involved justifiable deadly physical force used by the cop). Considering how stressful and sometimes flat out terrifying this job can be, that is a remarkably low number. Want to criticize the police? Go ahead. There are definitely things to criticize (like every institution). However, if you're going to criticize at least know what you're talking about. Just like "putting people in jail for weed" (lie) and "Stop and Frisk terrorizing the black community" (lie), the current narrative that police are systematically killing black men is just not true. It's an intentionally divisive, atrocious lie being pushed by activists and the media. 

I actually have a lot more to say but this rant was already too long. Anyway, Go Birds.

cops Dont want bricks thrown at them  stop providing pallets of bait bricks at protests. Dont want looting dont have under cover cops walk around with hammers busting out store windows. Dont like violence at protests stop inciting and perpetuating violence. Protesters arent looters, theyre protesters. Looters are looters. Want to stop looters  shoot them with rubber bullets not protesters. Rioters are rioters not protesters. Cops job is to meet force with equal force if some one calls a cop a pig or another not nice word equal force in return isnt a beat with a stick or a shot of pepper spray. Slashing protesters car tires isnt equal force or deescalating tensions.

Cops Continuing to show acts of police brutality at those protesting police brutality doesnt help anything the same way burning down buildings and violent actions towards cops doesnt help the message of equality.

Im sure you mean well and are doing your best with a really messed up situation or maybe youre not i dont know you you could be a white supremacist and i could be an anarchist. Either way i hope you are safe in your daily requirements i would never wish harm on anyone and im sure there is some truth to what you are seeing from your perspective and some truth from others perspective, all i know is that its not as black and white as you portray i rhink there is a lot of grey area and intricacy in it all on all sides. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and views and while i dont agree with some i hope we can both agree that cops and society on all sides of all these issues can and need to be better, because whatever is going on right now isnt working for anybody.

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Dont want bricks thrown at you stop providing pallets of bait bricks at protests. Dont want looting dont have under cover cops walk around with hammers busting out store windows. Dont like violence at protests stop inciting and perpetuating violence. Protesters arent looters, theyre protesters. Looters are looters. Want to stop looter shoot them with rubber bullets not protesters. Rioters are rioters not protesters. Your job is to meet force with equal force if some one calls you a pig or another not nice word equal force in return isnt a beat with a stick or a shot of pepper spray. Slashing protesters car tires isnt equal force or deescalating tensions.

Continuing to show acts of police brutality at those protesting police brutality doesnt help anything the same way burning down buildings and violent actions towards cops doesnt help the message if equality.

Im sure you mean well and are doing your best with a really messed up situation or maybe youre not i dont know you you could be a white supremacist and i could be an anarchist. Either way i hope you are safe in your daily requirements i would never wish harm on anyone and im sure their is some truth to what you are seeing from your perspective and some truth from other perspective, all i know is that its not as black and white as you potray i rhink there is a lot of grey area and intricacy in it all on all sides. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and views and while i dont agree with some i hope we can both agree that cops and society on all sides of all these can and need to be better, because whatever is going on right now isnt working for anybody.

Honest question: Do you really, truly believe that cops are placing bricks just so they can later be thrown at us? Do you really, truly believe that cops are the ones busting out store windows with hammers?

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Dont want bricks thrown at you stop providing pallets of bait bricks at protests. Dont want looting dont have under cover cops walk around with hammers busting out store windows. Dont like violence at protests stop inciting and perpetuating violence. Protesters arent looters, theyre protesters. Looters are looters. Want to stop looter shoot them with rubber bullets not protesters. Rioters are rioters not protesters. Your job is to meet force with equal force if some one calls you a pig or another not nice word equal force in return isnt a beat with a stick or a shot of pepper spray. Slashing protesters car tires isnt equal force or deescalating tensions.

Continuing to show acts of police brutality at those protesting police brutality doesnt help anything the same way burning down buildings and violent actions towards cops doesnt help the message if equality.

Im sure you mean well and are doing your best with a really messed up situation or maybe youre not i dont know you you could be a white supremacist and i could be an anarchist. Either way i hope you are safe in your daily requirements i would never wish harm on anyone and im sure their is some truth to what you are seeing from your perspective and some truth from other perspective, all i know is that its not as black and white as you potray i rhink there is a lot of grey area and intricacy in it all on all sides. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and views and while i dont agree with some i hope we can both agree that cops and society on all sides of all these can and need to be better, because whatever is going on right now isnt working for anybody.

Hear that @Giddyunc just listen to this guy and you’ll be the best cop ever... 

ya know stop working overtime setting up pallets of bricks because you are definitely doing that... oh yeah and wait until it becomes chaos to start shooting rubber bullets... and ya know every cop is doing that...

damn I generally find most cops to have some sort of complex but the amount of disrespect they get is surreal 

So it seems like things are going well in here.

Anywho...

Like many of PFF's articles it is both interesting and mockably pointless at the same time. 

Interesting names on the most reliant list: Carr (3), Rivers (5), Watson! (7)

Interesting names on the most reliant list, aka the whole list (for very different reasons): Allen (1), Mahomes (2), Trubisky (3), Murray (4), Darnold (5) Wentz (6), Jones (7), Garoppolo (8), Jackson (9), Mayfield (10)

 

Im sorry, when there’s literally a twitter thread with hundreds of videos showing cops attacking peaceful protestors, you can’t make the claim that cops are not also at fault. It may not be started by officers 100% of the time, but one altercation started by an officer is already one too many, and it’s much more than one. 

5 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Im sorry, when there’s literally a twitter thread with hundreds of videos showing cops attacking peaceful protestors, you can’t make the claim that cops are not also at fault. It may not be started by officers 100% of the time, but one altercation started by an officer is already one too many, and it’s much more than one. 

I'm not going to go through hundreds of videos and address each one. However, I'll say this: videos (especially videos that are cut and only show the end of the confrontation) often leave an impression that is at odds with reality. With that said, I don't even need to be shown any videos in order for me to concede that some officers' responses have been over the line. That's human nature. No amount of training, no reexamining of hiring practices, no reforms, etc will ever change that. Cops, like all human beings, can be provoked and act irrationally. Nothing will ever change that. Period. 

3 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm not going to go through hundreds of videos and address each one. However, I'll say this: videos (especially videos that are cut and only show the end of the confrontation) often leave an impression that is at odds with reality. With that said, I don't even need to be shown any videos in order for me to concede that some officers' responses have been over the line. That's human nature. No amount of training, no reexamining of hiring practices, no reforms, etc will ever change that. Cops, like all human beings, can be provoked and act irrationally. Nothing will ever change that. Period. 

That we can agree with. The problem is officers are left unchecked. 

Just now, WentzFan11 said:

That we can agree with. The problem is officers are left unchecked. 

Sorry, but I'm going to push back a little. I can't speak for every Department in this country. I can, however, speak as to the NYPD (and the NYPD is criticized for this perhaps more than any other Department). Cops are NOT left unchecked. Internal punishment is excessive. Cops are constantly under the heel from their own Department. When someone is arrested, it's become standard practice for that person to make a civilian complaint. They believe, sometimes rightfully, that making a complaint will help them with their criminal case. Get too many civilian complaints and there's a whole host of internal mechanisms that crush the cop. That's just one aspect. The narrative that Police Departments bend over backwards to protect their cops just isn't reality (at least in the NYPD). 

18 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

I'm not going to go through hundreds of videos and address each one. However, I'll say this: videos (especially videos that are cut and only show the end of the confrontation) often leave an impression that is at odds with reality. With that said, I don't even need to be shown any videos in order for me to concede that some officers' responses have been over the line. That's human nature. No amount of training, no reexamining of hiring practices, no reforms, etc will ever change that. Cops, like all human beings, can be provoked and act irrationally. Nothing will ever change that. Period. 

There's plenty of videos online of cops just being aggressive and violent out of nowhere since the start of the protests. There's video of a guy in a group all kneeling while he's giving a heartfelt speech and telling the group of cops he loves everyone. Then a cop comes through the group of police and goes to arrest him. There's videos of cops doing drive-by pepper sprayings at protestors. Or pulling down a mask on some guy with his hands up so the cop could spray his face. I was amazed by how many videos I could find of police just being aggressive and violent for no reason. You'd think cops would be on their best behavior after the public murder and everyone is filming everything now.

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

There's plenty of videos online of cops just being aggressive and violent out of nowhere since the start of the protests. There's video of a guy in a group all kneeling while he's giving a heartfelt speech and telling the group of cops he loves everyone. Then a cop comes through the group of police and goes to arrest him. There's videos of cops doing drive-by pepper sprayings at protestors. Or pulling down a mask on some guy with his hands up so the cop could spray his face. I was amazed by how many videos I could find of police just being aggressive and violent for no reason. You'd think cops would be on their best behavior after the public murder and everyone is filming everything now.

Again, what's the context? I'll give a personal example. This has happened a lot recently. Someone in a crowd throws something that could seriously hurt a cop. That person is "protected" by the group of protesters in front of him. It's too dangerous to rush into the crowd to apprehend him. That person is then marked. This could be done by aviation (if the Department has helicopters) or by a spotter. Eyes are kept on this individual. It might be an hour later, well after the initial incident, and he is then in a position where it'd be safe for the cops to arrest him. Happens all the time. 

I try to stay out of these arguments b/c most people don't do their homework or even know what the words they throw around mean.

Take justice, do you mean procedural justice or substantive justice?

Procedural justice is far easier, basically, if there are a set of rules, they're followed for all (or not).

Substantive Justice, is really "outcome" Justice, and it depends on what you think a just outcome is, equality, an eye for an eye, etc. And this depends upon whether you're following a consistent philosophy, base it on natural law or religion, or just naked self-interest (change the rules determining what is just to suit your current situation). It is almost impossible to develop an objective concept of substantive justice, so we rely on "politics" to form a general consensus.

Capitalism?  I avoid that term like the plague, it's basically an invention of Marx and should be left to the 19th century. Marx was trying to distinguish it from feudalism, but what a waste of time, was Venice feudal or capitalist? What was ancient Rome? "Finance capitalism" can probably be traced back to Mesopotamia. All human societies have power structures that provide control over economic resources.

Now capital in all its forms (financial, physical, human, intellectual), labor, and other inputs to production has real meaning. But as a technical matter.

When Americans try to use the term it's even more confused, certainly Germany is as "capitalist" as the US.

So first get your terms right, then you might realize what you're arguing about.