Just now, downundermike said:

So that adds to my number, increasing his 9.186 million cap hits in 2022 and 2023 to 10,561,500 for each year, lowering the cap space to 834K

No... lol... that isn't how it works.  

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But they are already calculated in the cap space.   You are double dipping by trying to add them to the dead space and not taking them off the active books. That's not how it works.

I am not double dipping.   Lets take this one step at a time.

If Kelce is cut, traded or retires to start the 2023 league year, all future prorated signing bonus money accelerates to the current year.  These are the numbers on the bolded square, do you agree ??

 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

So that adds to my number, increasing his 9.186 million cap hits in 2022 and 2023 to 10,561,500 for each year, lowering the cap space to 834K

Mike...foliw me here... it's not hard.

Kelce is on the books

2022.    $8,045,000

2023.   $ 11,175,000

2024  $11,448,000

He retires and they take him off the books as of June 1.

2023 becomes $ 9,675,000

2024 becomes $5,411,000

They save that difference, it doesn't get added on.

Just now, downundermike said:

I am not double dipping.   Lets take this one step at a time.

If Kelce is cut, traded or retires to start the 2023 league year, all future prorated signing bonus money accelerates to the current year.  These are the numbers on the bolded square, do you agree ??

 

Mike go to site and it tells you right there, they do the math for you.

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Mike...foliw me here... it's not hard.

Kelce is on the books

2022.    $8,045,000

2023.   $ 11,175,000

2024  $11,448,000

He retires and they take him off the books as of June 1.

2023 becomes $ 9,675,000

2024 becomes $5,411,000

They save that difference, it doesn't get added on.

What is the bolded number ??

Just now, downundermike said:

What is the bolded number ??

Go to the site and you can see...it's the dead money for 2024

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Go to the site and you can see...it's the dead money for 2024

Ok.  That is step 1. 

Step 2.  You also have to accelerate the same column dead money for 2025 and 2026.

Here is an article showing the same 18 million.  The 2024, 2025 and 2026 dead money accelerates to the current year.

 

These numbers add up to 18 million.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-free-agency-2022-details-jason-kelces-contract-eagles

Quote

If Kelce retires after this season, the Eagles would be left with a substantial amount of dead money

(around $18 million) going forward. But the Eagles would probably ask Kelce to hold off filing his paperwork until after June 1 to spread out that dead money over two seasons.

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/#:~:text=When a player is released,counted against the Salary Cap.

[quote/When a player is released (or retires), the team is relieved of having the pay the player’s base salary (P5) and any Roster Bonus that may become due after that, but still will need to account for any Signing or Option Bonus prorations that haven’t yet counted against the Salary Cap.[/quote]

 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Ok.  That is step 1. 

Step 2.  You also have to accelerate the same column dead money for 2025 and 2026.

Here is an article showing the same 18 million.  The 2024, 2025 and 2026 dead money accelerates to the current year.

 

These numbers add up to 18 million.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-free-agency-2022-details-jason-kelces-contract-eagles

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/#:~:text=When a player is released,counted against the Salary Cap.

[quote/When a player is released (or retires), the team is relieved of having the pay the player’s base salary (P5) and any Roster Bonus that may become due after that, but still will need to account for any Signing or Option Bonus prorations that haven’t yet counted against the Salary Cap.[/quote]

 

Ok...  so again... Kelce is on the books  for 

2023.   $11,175,000

2024.  $11,448,000

Combined over $22.6 mil

If they spread out $18 mil over those 2 years.... you don't see how that's less than $22.6 ... or less than $11 mil per?

It SAVES cap space.   

You had it costing them Cap space.  Same with Cox and Hargrave etc.  Those are huge differences in numbers.

They are not in bad Cap position at all. Nobody pressing to extend.   They are in bad roster position because they drafted poorly.  

Idk I look at the big problem.   It seems people who complain about the cap its because they think throwing money at everything is the solution.  

They were able to spend big this offseason.  Made more moves than 3/4 if not more of the league.   They need to replace their 2010,2011, 2012 draft picks...   because they are old.   They had a decade to do that draft wise, without the need to throw $100 mil at the problem.   Bigger issue there.

They shouldn't spend big next year because they need to get younger. A core needs to be built first, otherwise it doesn't last, as we just saw in recent years.

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ok...  so again... Kelce is on the books  for 

2023.   $11,175,000

2024.  $11,448,000

Combined over $22.6 mil

If they spread out $18 mil over those 2 years.... you don't see how that's less than $22.6 ... or less than $11 mil per?

It SAVES cap space.   

We are getting closer.

2023 and 2024 he is on the books, he is also on the books for 2025 and 2026, but not on the roster.  Everything past 2022 are void years to spread out the signing bonus, and all accelerate immediately.

Kelce is only on the roster for 2022, with a cap hit of 8.045 million.  

Without a new contract, Kelce will count 18.373 against the 2023 cap once the 2024, 2025 and 2026 signing bonuses accelerate to 2023.

 

We complain about Howie managing cap?   Imagine being these other teams who NEVER make moves.   

Howie managing the cap has allowed himself to make 20 times the player mistakes than the usual GM.  That should show how bad he picks but how good he is allowing himself more mistakes.

I don't think anyone would prefer Howie the personnel GM over the cap manager.   I mean if the cap manager had a better personnel guy, he'd probably win a ton more.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We are getting closer.

2023 and 2024 he is on the books, he is also on the books for 2025 and 2026, but not on the roster.  Everything past 2022 are void years to spread out the signing bonus, and all accelerate immediately.

Kelce is only on the roster for 2022, with a cap hit of 8.045 million.  

Without a new contract, Kelce will count 18.373 against the 2023 cap once the 2024, 2025 and 2026 signing bonuses accelerate to 2023.

 

Yes... now you get it... but spread that $18.373 over 2 seasons if it's done after June 1.  It's been my point the whole time.  Why is it a hard thing to understand?

Was that final part of splitting the  dead cap of $18 mil over 2 seasons and how that's less than what is currently showing on the books that hard to understand?

Idk... is it just where you focus on the top 51 and the amount that is available on day 1 of the new league year?  There is more to it than that.

But that's why I see Slay as the easy trade after the season. 

Just now, downundermike said:

It is not saving money, Kelce does not have a contract to be on the roster 2023 or beyond.

Yes...he is showing on the books, go look at both his page and the team page.  It's already factored in the cap numbers. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Yes...he is showing on the books, go look at both his page and the team page.  It's already factored in the cap numbers. 

I meant 2024.  They are saving 1.5 million to have 18 million dead, you don't see the problem with that ??

And actually it is 21 million dead, as you pointed out his 2.75 million 2023 roster bonus is guaranteed.

Maybe forget the homemade Excel sheet and just look at the cap sites that already have it.  

It's not as complicated as people make it out to be.

A player signs, he goes on the books FOR ALL THOSE YEARS, he comes off after a transaction is made and a new number goes on the books.  Which can be for 2 seasons if post June 1.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

I meant 2024.  They are saving 1.5 million to have 18 million dead, you don't see the problem with that ??

And actually it is 21 million dead, as you pointed out his 2.75 million 2023 roster bonus is guaranteed.

Mike... you just make it too complicated.  Look at the current cap hits..what are they?   

2023. = $11,175,000

2024 = $11,448, 000

ALREADY IN THE CAP SPACE CALCULATION. 

If they split the rest regardless of the number .   It's a cap savings correct?   It doesn't get added on to their cap, it comes off.  That's the point. 

That's where as a whole the team is in fine cap shape.  At the moment they have $15.6 mil to start.   That will double with a Slay trade.  Which I  am more than ok replacing along with the other older players. 

Forget dead money...  there is just the starting point of cap space and where it ends.  That's the bottom line. 

Right in the middle of the pack without any extensions and a move in Slay that puts them way ahead.   Good spot if they have a couple of good drafts to start contending for real in a few years.

They draft a QB next year that puts that big extension 3 or 4 years down the road. Plenty of time to build a roster properly with some good drafts.

The issue is going to remain ...do they draft well enough.  

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If they split the rest regardless of the number .   It's a cap savings correct? 

Yes, the save 1.5 million and have 21.123 million dead.  Then a player has to replace that on the top 51, so you take contract 52, around 900K, so the savings is 600K with 21.123 million dead.

Fins stripped of 1st & 3rd rd picks for the whole Brady tampering thing

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yes, the save 1.5 million and have 21.123 million dead.  Then a player has to replace that on the top 51, so you take contract 52, around 900K, so the savings is 600K with 21.123 million dead.

They all count Mike.   The 51 is just a number to start with.   The point was they are not $31 mil over the cap.  Worrying about a couple mil here or there isn't an issue.

The moves to look at are the big ones.  Slay getting moved.  That might bother some, it doesn't for me.  I need some young guys to keep building the core.  Cap space for free agents isn't my concern next year.

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yes, the save 1.5 million and have 21.123 million dead.  Then a player has to replace that on the top 51, so you take contract 52, around 900K, so the savings is 600K with 21.123 million dead.

If the savings was 5 dollars, but there was zero dead money.  Which would be better for the team to use?

Hypothetical question here to make sure people understand how it works...

Cleveland Browns have $20 mil in cap space...  with $60 mil of dead money

Houston Texans have $10 mil of cap space with no dead money showing. 

Which team is in better cap position and why?

17 minutes ago, mjkline1958 said:

Fins stripped of 1st & 3rd rd picks for the whole Brady tampering thing

Owner also fined 1.5 mil

Of course that's pocket change for an NFL owner

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Hypothetical question here to make sure people understand how it works...

Cleveland Browns have $20 mil in cap space...  with $60 mil of dead money

Houston Texans have $10 mil of cap space with no dead money showing. 

Which team is in better cap position and why?

Texans, as they are spending the 60 million on players that can help them win games instead of not being able to spend it at all.

 

Example, after the 2022 free agency period

 

Eagles have 8.9 million in cap space, and 55 million dead.

Ravens have 8.5 million in cap space, 14.9 million dead, and Marcus Williams ( who the Eagles also pursued )

Saints have 11.2 million in cap space, 33 million dead, and the Honey Badger ( who the Eagles also pursued )

 

16 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If the savings was 5 dollars, but there was zero dead money.  Which would be better for the team to use?

5 dollars with zero dead, because they would be spending the money on players to be on the roster instead of not being able to use it at all.