What candidate had pull? Pull is what AR had when he left Philly, if he wanted total control, a half dozen owners would have given it to him.

The Eagles didn't come close to making an offer to any other coach before they were hired, they weren't turned down by anyone because they never made an offer, that is, no one was that impressive. There's a half dozen names that would have agreed to anything to get a shot at a NFL HC job, I mean people accepted offers from the Jets and Browns in the past!

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Didn't say push back during the interview, push back against the Howie way of his over involvement of how to practice, who to play, who is active on game day.  During my last back and forth with afan I found more than 10 coaches who have final say over the roster.  This entire narrative that the GM is the be all end all needs to stop.  Howie needs to go sit in his office and fix this mess he created with the cap, let the coach coach, and stay the hell out of the way.

Leo Bebbe : Henry Ford II as Howie Roseman : Jeffrey Lurie (see Ford versus Ferrari) Short of MGs who have won Superbowls, there is no equivalent to Carroll Shelby to stand up to the duo. Maybe Howie can be locked in a room...

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Didn't say push back during the interview, push back against the Howie way of his over involvement of how to practice, who to play, who is active on game day.  During my last back and forth with afan I found more than 10 coaches who have final say over the roster.  This entire narrative that the GM is the be all end all needs to stop.  Howie needs to go sit in his office and fix this mess he created with the cap, let the coach coach, and stay the hell out of the way.

This part I think everyone can agree on.

My position has always been that getting down to the 53-man roster is an exercise that the coaching staff and GM share.  Even after the 53-man (or 55-man now?) is set, there are players acquired via roster cuts from other teams, and the guys on the Eagles roster bubble may still lose their jobs right after cut-down day.  That is a process that requires GM involvement because the acquisitions need to agree to contracts, fit under the cap, etc.

Once the team "breaks camp" -- the final 53-man roster being set -- then it needs to belong to the coaching staff only.  Sirianni would tell Howie where the team is lacking, where it needs to be improved via waiver wire, trade, etc.  Ideally, the GM would go to the head coach and ask "Can we use this player?" before acquiring him -- which apparently was not done with either Golden Tate or Genard Avery.  This is where Howie needs to change his M.O.  Sirianni, Gannon, and Steichen should have the ability to say yay or nay before any player from off the roster is brought in.

12 minutes ago, Veejer said:

I would add to this that "pushing back" (or standing up for yourself, in other words) is as much a personality trait as it is a "resume" trait...

Of course, you can also see it as stubborn and a bit of megalomania, remember Chip? He wanted control, how did that work out?

Reid learned his lesson, even though he could have asked for control, he wanted a strong GM so he could focus on coaching this time around.

With good organizations it's not about control, because everyone is generally on the same page. If not, get new people. When you see the GM and HC butting heads on a regular basis, doesn't matter which one has "control," it's a dysfunctional organization.

 

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What candidate had pull? Pull is what AR had when he left Philly, if he wanted total control, a half dozen owners would have given it to him.

The Eagles didn't come close to making an offer to any other coach before they were hired, they weren't turned down by anyone because they never made an offer, that is, no one was that impressive. There's a half dozen names that would have agreed to anything to get a shot at a NFL HC job, I mean people accepted offers from the Jets and Browns in the past!

Once again, you state your opinion as fact.  You do not know how any of those interviews went.  Boles, McDaniels, Allen and several other guys who I mentioned have years of experience.  They are not going to come in and be micro managed by an accountant who thinks he knows more about football then they do.  They are going to push back, and they have a body of work that they can reference to why they should make X, Y and Z decision over an accountant.

You never did address something, and it ties into this.  You are under the belief than only Andy Reid and Bill Belichek have roster control.  I gave a list of more than 10 head coaches who have final say on the roster.  You of course ducked out of the conversation, because it proved you are not the smartest guy in the room that you think you are  Your entire narrative that NFL GM's are the be all and end all is 100% false.

In other news... stick a fork in the Phillies.  Hoskins back on IR.  This lineup just doesn't have enough left to get it done.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’m me.  And he’s Afan.  That’s all the proof I need.  You haven’t been around a lot lately.  My predictions and thoughts on this front office their boneheaded decisions since 2017 has been consistently accurate.  AFan is an apologist of the FO.  Has been every step of the way.  I’m not going to rehash all of my grievances with the FO now.  Since that’s all I have done the past year in here.  

I may not have been around much lately, but I've been posting with Afan for a very, very long time...  and not always agreeably...  I just happen to be, on this issue, more closely aligned with how he sees it, rather than on how you do...

No biggie...

 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

With good organizations it's not about control, because everyone is generally on the same page

And that is why the Eagles are currently not a good organization.  The coaches, scouts, football guys are not on the same page as the GM and Owner who are playing fantasy football.  That  is why they hired a yes man that they can control.  It will be proven on cut down day when bad Howie picks stick on the roster, and guys that we have heard out perform them all camp are sent packing.  You are really gonna have to brush up on your apologetics by next Tuesday, you are gonna have a lot of work to do when Howie makes multiple bad roster decisions.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

.  Ideally, the GM would go to the head coach and ask "Can we use this player?" before acquiring him -- which apparently was not done with either Golden Tate or Genard Avery.  This is where Howie needs to change his M.O.  Sirianni, Gannon, and Steichen should have the ability to say yay or nay before any player from off the roster is brought in.

Actually, we have no evidence either way. But it's unlikely Howie would have gone after either player unless Doug or Schwartz had either wanted the player specifically or expressed a general need that the player could fit. Howie doesn't spend draft picks lightly. Schwartz has used fastball pass rushers in the past in the wide nine, so Avery isn't a stretch off the bench. Tate was odder unless Doug wanted Agholor to move back outside.

So far with Sirianni, can't think of a player they obtained that didn't fit the coaching staff, both the draft and trades, Scott was the nickel back that Gannon wants from his experience with Moore in Indy. Kerrigan is the multiple look kind of guy off the bench. Sirianni worked with immobile veteran QBs in Indy.

Cost matters as well, I can see trading a 4th for a two down NT type for depth (run downs, goal line), but a valuable asset would be strange since this defense doesn't use a NT type on a regular basis.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

In other news... stick a fork in the Phillies.  Hoskins back on IR.  This lineup just doesn't have enough left to get it done.

Unfortunately, this team as a whole never had enough to get it done...  you are what your record says you are... 

58 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Keep being an apologist.  If you don't think Lowie is telling NS what to do, you're a moron.  

I’m one too, but you knew that. I judge my level of stupidity by whether or not I agree with you.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Well you would have been in the majority 3 years ago when I was sounding the horn on this issue.  Now you’re not.  

All I've said is that the true measure of a head coach's worth is how his team performs on the field over time... and that I think the "Sirianni is a yes man" thing is speculative, and I'll wait on that...

1 minute ago, Veejer said:

Unfortunately, this team as a whole never had enough to get it done...  you are what your record says you are... 

The cake was baked on that team before the season started.  Rake all you want (not that they have) -- if you don't have a starting rotation 3-deep and a bullpen you can trust, you're destined to be a .500 team even with a good offense.  

10 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This part I think everyone can agree on.

My position has always been that getting down to the 53-man roster is an exercise that the coaching staff and GM share.  Even after the 53-man (or 55-man now?) is set, there are players acquired via roster cuts from other teams, and the guys on the Eagles roster bubble may still lose their jobs right after cut-down day.  That is a process that requires GM involvement because the acquisitions need to agree to contracts, fit under the cap, etc.

Once the team "breaks camp" -- the final 53-man roster being set -- then it needs to belong to the coaching staff only.  Sirianni would tell Howie where the team is lacking, where it needs to be improved via waiver wire, trade, etc.  Ideally, the GM would go to the head coach and ask "Can we use this player?" before acquiring him -- which apparently was not done with either Golden Tate or Genard Avery.  This is where Howie needs to change his M.O.  Sirianni, Gannon, and Steichen should have the ability to say yay or nay before any player from off the roster is brought in.

1st bolded point - And the reason I get into it with afan, he has been steadfast that 30 NFL teams the GM makes that final decision.  That is false as I have proven, and from the rosters we have seen, and the media reports we have seen, Howie takes input and then makes his own decision, against what the coaches want.

2nd bolded point - Yes, the GM needs to be involved for cap purposes, but he is not putting together schemes to win games, so the only input he should have is will it work within the cap.

Your entire last paragraph is exactly how it should be, but afan has posted time and again that is not how it is,  and I have proven that more than 10 NFL coaches have final say over the roster, and I bet the rest unless it is an extreme situation, those GM's with final say actually do what the coaches ask.

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

So far with Sirianni, can't think of a player they obtained that didn't fit the coaching staff

You are making this statement off an assumption.  We really have no idea what the scheme is offensively or defensively.  They have played vanilla with the back ups in the pre season, you don't have access to practice to know what the scheme is.  How would you know how any player fits into a scheme you know nothing about.

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Actually, we have no evidence either way. But it's unlikely Howie would have gone after either player unless Doug or Schwartz had either wanted the player specifically or expressed a general need that the player could fit. Howie doesn't spend draft picks lightly. Schwartz has used fastball pass rushers in the past in the wide nine, so Avery isn't a stretch off the bench. Tate was odder unless Doug wanted Agholor to move back outside.

So far with Sirianni, can't think of a player they obtained that didn't fit the coaching staff, both the draft and trades, Scott was the nickel back that Gannon wants from his experience with Moore in Indy. Kerrigan is the multiple look kind of guy off the bench. Sirianni worked with immobile veteran QBs in Indy.

Cost matters as well, I can see trading a 4th for a two down NT type for depth (run downs, goal line), but a valuable asset would be strange since this defense doesn't use a NT type on a regular basis.

Might be nice to NOT trade away any more picks.   Stop Howie, just... stop.   And while we are not trading away draft picks, might be nice to not push any more cap space into the future.

So let's change the subject to something happier.

How many snaps for Hurts tonight? 

😂

17 minutes ago, Veejer said:

Unfortunately, this team as a whole never had enough to get it done...  you are what your record says you are... 

Agreed.  And I think that they will end up under 0.500 now.

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

So let's change the subject to something happier.

How many snaps for Hurts tonight? 

😂

I will be you 1 million dollars it will be zero.  In fact 2 million that the entire roster plays zero snaps tonight.

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

So let's change the subject to something happier.

How many snaps for Hurts tonight? 

😂

zero......tonight since they dont play tonight.

And you call yourself an Eagles fan, don;t even know when they play, lol. 

 

JK, lol

17 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What candidate had pull? Pull is what AR had when he left Philly, if he wanted total control, a half dozen owners would have given it to him.

The Eagles didn't come close to making an offer to any other coach before they were hired, they weren't turned down by anyone because they never made an offer, that is, no one was that impressive. There's a half dozen names that would have agreed to anything to get a shot at a NFL HC job, I mean people accepted offers from the Jets and Browns in the past!

The coaching community is small.  I do think there were potential candidates that were likely turned off by reports and information they had on the front office.  There were reports they were interested in Daboll and he turned them down.  There were serious discussions with McDaniel and he ultimately either was not interested or was not offered a job.  They interviewed Smith and Saleh who went elsewhere.  Part of it may have had to do with reports that the Eagles wanted to keep Wentz prior to the hiring.  I don't think it's wrong to think that some potential candidates did not want to cede some decisions to Howie.  It's also possible some candidates weren't what the Eagles were looking for in terms of candidates.  Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.  

Ultimately none of what happens in the pre-season matters if the team plays well against Atlanta.  None of the decision making dynamic matters this season if Sirianni coaches well and the team plays to their potential.  Where it becomes a problem is if Sirianni is successful and wants more control or if the team has to replace him.  

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I will be you 1 million dollars it will be zero.  In fact 2 million that the entire roster plays zero snaps tonight.

What if Swoop meant camera snaps? 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Did bacarty hack @Swoop's account ??

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The coaching community is small.  I do think there were potential candidates that were likely turned off by reports and information they had on the front office.  There were reports they were interested in Daboll and he turned them down.  There were serious discussions with McDaniel and he ultimately either was not interested or was not offered a job.  They interviewed Smith and Saleh who went elsewhere.  Part of it may have had to do with reports that the Eagles wanted to keep Wentz prior to the hiring.  I don't think it's wrong to think that some potential candidates did not want to cede some decisions to Howie.  It's also possible some candidates weren't what the Eagles were looking for in terms of candidates.  Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.  

Ultimately none of what happens in the pre-season matters if the team plays well against Atlanta.  None of the decision making dynamic matters this season if Sirianni coaches well and the team plays to their potential.  Where it becomes a problem is if Sirianni is successful and wants more control or if the team has to replace him.  

Waiting a full week before deciding to fire Doug definitely impacted the process.  By the time they interviewed Smith and Saleh they were pretty much offered jobs the next day or day after, before the Eagles had seen all the candidates.  Daboll wasn't available to interview until later on, and the Bills, Chiefs and others have said the hiring process for coaches needs to be more fair to allow candidates from teams going deep in the playoffs to be available for interviews.  Bienemy either doesn't want to leave KC or he's being extremely choosy on where he'll interview (and there isn't anything wrong with that)

23 minutes ago, downundermike said:

1st bolded point - And the reason I get into it with afan, he has been steadfast that 30 NFL teams the GM makes that final decision.  That is false as I have proven, and from the rosters we have seen, and the media reports we have seen, Howie takes input and then makes his own decision, against what the coaches want.

2nd bolded point - Yes, the GM needs to be involved for cap purposes, but he is not putting together schemes to win games, so the only input he should have is will it work within the cap.

Your entire last paragraph is exactly how it should be, but afan has posted time and again that is not how it is,  and I have proven that more than 10 NFL coaches have final say over the roster, and I bet the rest unless it is an extreme situation, those GM's with final say actually do what the coaches ask.

Proven? Really? Opined with jerry-pickng is more like it. And you are alleging that Lowie doesn’t do what the coaches ask. You base that on what? Somehow I missed that.