13 minutes ago, Utebird said:

This article is the most recent I could find from October, so only a few weeks old.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ivermectin-studies-for-covid-19-see-the-flawed-evidence-2021-10

Take from it what you will, either way I'm a proponent of when making medical decisions based off this  discussing it with ones Dr not a radio personality.

I'm a proponent of research before making definitive statements.  It has been shown to be effective against some viruses.  There is some reason for hope that it could be useful as a treatment of Covid-19 and I am in favor of further study.  I am not suggesting everyone take it, nor suggesting that it should be available over the counter for anyone to self-medicate it.  But if they and their doctor agree... what's the problem?  And why criticize it? 

 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm a proponent of research before making definitive statements.  It has been shown to be effective against some viruses.  There is some reason for hope that it could be useful as a treatment of Covid-19 and I am in favor of further study.  I am not suggesting everyone take it, nor suggesting that it should be available over the counter for anyone to self-medicate it.  But if they and their doctor agree... what's the problem?  And why criticize it? 

 

No reason to criticize it at all, if a Dr and patient decide together to take ivermectin to  combat covid, more power to them, none of my business as long as it's not putting other people at risk, plus bonus is one won't have worms so there's that.

What's to criticize is when somebody makes a medical decision based off what a radio personality says his Dr told him.

In my estimation that's just not too smart.

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

No reason to criticize it at all, if a Dr and patient decide together to take ivermectin to  combat covid, more power to them, none of my business as long as it's not putting other people at risk, plus bonus is one won't have worms so there's that.

What's to criticize is when somebody makes a medical decision based off what a radio personality says his Dr told him.

In my estimation that's just not too smart.

Why do you keep coming back to that?  It's not like it is readily available.  It is a prescription drug.  It requires a prescription from a doctor.

26 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

 

Hurts gonna come up big with a 175yrds passing performance!

38 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Well, I mean, when the people who are the ones relaying the message lose credibility, then citizens are no longer going to trust the authorities telling you to get the vaccine.

We’ve seen politicians across the country not even follow their own mandates, and then have the balls to tell their citizens to follow them. People are going to stop listening to those people.

And also telling people they’re wrong or racist for even discussing the lab leak hypothesis didn’t go over well either. It’s going to make skeptics even more skeptical about what you’re trying to hide and they aren’t going to trust you.

If you have a doctor and he tells you not to do something because it’s dangerous and then you see him out in public doing that exact thing he told you not to do, you aren’t going to trust that doctor anymore. Doesn’t matter what the message is, if you don’t trust that person, you don’t trust them.

Vaccine holdouts have lost trust in the people, not exactly the messaging per se. Though I think inconsistent messaging caused some distrust. Not specifically with the effectiveness of the vaccines, but in general about various COVID and lockdown related stuff.

Again, I think there's a lot of people shouting as loud as they could to be dismissive of the virus and to point out any perceived discrepancy in messaging and the people making it.  There are also people that are distrustful of government for good reasons.  IF you want to find fault with the messengers, I think what you find first is that you don't like their politics.  

 

48 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes.  By studying it more, and people need to take it, to study it.  

You should understand that there's a big difference between a controlled study and a piecemeal use of the medication.  Doctor's prescribing it without any evidence now doesn't lead to more evidence.  

Just now, NCiggles said:

You should understand that there's a big difference between a controlled study and a piecemeal use of the medication.  Doctor's prescribing it without any evidence now doesn't lead to more evidence.  

I do understand that, and you are very correct.  But I don't think that one must preclude the other either.   If patient X is not part of the study, but wants to try the treatment (in addition to other strategies), and patient X's doctor doesn't see a reason for them not to take it, I don't see the harm in it, nor do I see why it should be ridiculed.   This particular drug is one with very limited side effects and is usually very well tolerated by folks.  If, on the other hand, their doctor believes it is not in their best interest, they should tell the patient that and find an alternative treatment plan.  

 

The doctors prescribing it piecemeal aren't harming the evidence either, as those infected with Covid that aren't part of an official study wouldn't likely be eligible for a study after getting over the disease anyway. 

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Why do you keep coming back to that?  It's not like it is readily available.  It is a prescription drug.  It requires a prescription from a doctor.

It’s very easy for someone to shop doctors in order to get what they want. Stupid people exist in every profession. 
 

The fact that a doctor has to be prescribe something is irrelevant.

@LeanMeanGM

Eagles 24

Chargers 21

Jordan Howard runs for 100 yards

1 minute ago, WentzFan11 said:

It’s very easy for someone to shop doctors in order to get what they want. Stupid people exist in every profession. 
 

The fact that a doctor has to be prescribe something is irrelevant.

That's also true.  Second opinions in the medical field are also a thing for a reason.   Granted if a person wants something, they can usually find a doctor to give it to them.  But, I'm focusing on the simple case of going to one's regular doctor and having the conversation and making a decision from there, not going in with the decision already made and just finding the MD to put their signature onto the prescription.  People do that all the time with all kinds of things, its not limited to this scenario.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

A cure or comprehensive vaccine for the common cold viruses isn’t coming in our lifetime or the next, unfortunately.  That’s a moving target of nearly incomprehensible scale.
 

As an aside, vaccines aren’t cures.  A cure treats the active disease.  Vaccines simply prevent or diminish the disease.

Point taken. But diminishing a cold to basically symptom free is good enough. Common cold is a lot of different viruses but many are corona viruses. 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/04/06/army-begins-clinical-trials-vaccine-may-be-effective-against-all-coronaviruses.html

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Why do you keep coming back to that?  It's not like it is readily available.  It is a prescription drug.  It requires a prescription from a doctor.

Aaron Rodgers didn't say he talked to his Dr. He said he talked to Joe Rogan who to my knowledge is not a Dr.

https://www.therefinedfeline.com/buy-ivermectin-for-sale-without-prescription/

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@LeanMeanGM

Eagles 24

Chargers 21

Jordan Howard runs for 100 yards

Woah.  

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Aaron Rodgers didn't say he talked to his Dr. He said he talked to Joe Rogan who to my knowledge is not a Dr.

https://www.therefinedfeline.com/buy-ivermectin-for-sale-without-prescription/

Ah... I haven't listened to Rodgers, nor do I plan to.  Which I guess is the issue with this conversation.  I am looking at the issue in the general sense, everyone else seems to be focused on this particular one.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

A cure or comprehensive vaccine for the common cold viruses isn’t coming in our lifetime or the next, unfortunately.  That’s a moving target of nearly incomprehensible scale.
 

As an aside, vaccines aren’t cures.  A cure treats the active disease.  Vaccines simply prevent or diminish the disease.

I'm pretty sure I won't be suffering from a cold in the next life.

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Woah.  

Just a feeling

Just now, downundermike said:

Just a feeling

That would be something.  He got closest almost exactly 2 years ago, 10/27/2019 he got to 96 yards.   Hasn't gotten close since then.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Just a feeling

You're only the 2nd person to predict an Eagles win Hurts Hugger!

Chargers 30

Eagles 24

 

Herbert throws what ends up being the game winning TD pass with a little over a minute left in the game.  

 

 

Devante Parker to IR. The Dolphins are falling apart. 

I figured everyone might need to know 

 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Devante Parker to IR. The Dolphins are falling apart. 

A live look at Howie: 

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html

 

 

Read the actual study paper in the NIH link not the Drugs.com link.  This is an in vitro study where in the abstract, the authors admit the need for more clinical trials and in the report they indicate what they did not study. The decrease in viral loads is encouraging but the authors clearly indicate the limitations of their conclusions.  They do suggest a substantial dose was necessary. 

 In the US, drugs are approved for specific use. Ivermectin is not approved for use against viruses so off use prescription by a doctor could endanger his license.  I don’t disagree that Ivermectin may prove to be a viral inhibitor but just watch TV in the afternoon or late at night for all the lawyer advertising for clients injured by medical devices or drugs that turned out to not be quite what we thought.  I would be lax if I didn’t point out you don’t see those for vaccines because drug companies are immune.  Compensation for vaccine injury comes through a taxpayer fund and is very difficult to prove and the compensation isn’t great.

I would take Ivermectin for parasites. For active Covid, I would prefer monoclonal antibody treatment.   But I prefer to not get Covid at all.

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

Read the actual study paper in the NIH link not the Drugs.com link.  This is an in vitro study where in the abstract, the authors admit the need for more clinical trials and in the report they indicate what they did not study. The decrease in viral loads is encouraging but the authors clearly indicate the limitations of their conclusions.  They do suggest a substantial dose was necessary. 

 In the US, drugs are approved for specific use. Ivermectin is not approved for use against viruses so off use prescription by a doctor could endanger his license.  I don’t disagree that Ivermectin may prove to be a viral inhibitor but just watch TV in the afternoon or late at night for all the lawyer advertising for clients injured by medical devices or drugs that turned out to not be quite what we thought.  I would be lax if I didn’t point out you don’t see those for vaccines because drug companies are immune.  Compensation for vaccine injury comes through a taxpayer fund and is very difficult to prove and the compensation isn’t great.

I would take Ivermectin for parasites. For active Covid, I would prefer monoclonal antibody treatment.   But I prefer to not get Covid at all.

Yes, and the bolded is all I have been advocating - more clinical trials and a moratorium on laughing at anyone who takes Ivermectin for Covid.  

As for the lawyer ads... unfortunately, we live in a highly litigious age.  But, watching ads at the same time of day on the same channels, you'll see ads where drug companies tell you to ask your doctor if 'drug x' is right for you.  So, if I go by ads, I should ask my doctor about every drug I see on TV, then if something goes wrong with one that I asked about, I call the lawyer and sue the doctor!  Win for everyone!  (except the doctor, I suppose)