6 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I wouldn’t say it saved the season.  They’re still a 7-9 win team, max.  I would argue tanking out and firing Howie would have been more productive then winning 7-9 games. 

I was on board for that, knowing in order for Jeff to even have the thought, that's what it would take, an all out terrible season. But when they let this o-line dominate the guy across from them in the run game, it got us more wins and back in a wild card hunt. If we continued to just fire away haphazardly, we would have more losses.

Hopefully this will open the eyes of management that you can't just fire away in the pass game and need more of a balance. 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Minshew and Hurts have similar QBRs. That's not an accident. Minshew will have high QB ratings b/c they overvalue QBs who complete lots of short passes at a higher rate. But QBR is more focused on what he does in terms of efficiency in driving the offense.

Hurts has more upside, if he can improve his passing, Minshew pretty much is what he is.

If Hurts improves as a passer he can be special, if not, he's about as effective as Minshew, just with a different set of tools.

This year is about finding out if Hurts can continue to improve. That's why the last four games matter. Given a bye week to self-evaluate, we'll see if he can step up.

Hurts has no upside.  He cannot pass.  If you cannot pass, you do not have upside.

His weaknesses are every aspect of passing.  Improving as a passer wouldn't make him special; it would make him average.

 

I want to see if Minshew improves his running ability!

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

I still like Matt Corral in the draft.  Knowing the Eagles aren't looking at 3 top 10 picks, they won't be in position to nab one of the top defensive playmakers in the draft.  I think Corral can be had in the middle of the 1st.  In a sense he's the perfect combination of Hurts and Minshew.  He's got a great arm but isn't afraid to tuck it and run when needed....when needed being the key term.  His size worries me a bit.  He's listed at 6-2 205 so realistically he's probably in the 6-1 200 range.  Not sure that's ideal but I love the way he plays, his competitive nature and think he could be worth a 1st round investment.

Dean or Lloyd will be there, Gardner or Booth as well.  Karlaftis won’t likely be, probably just Ojabo for edge rushers. 
 With Jurkovec and Haener both returning to college, next years QB draft should be interesting.  

I was hopeful Jurkovec might transfer, that BC O-line is gonna get him killed, same for Tanner McKee at Stanford but he’s likely more tied to that school.  If they have a decent line next year, McKee will be a top 3 pick. 

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

combination of Hurts and Minshew.  

🤢

Even picking in the teens, Eagles can come away with building  block players on D and the OL.

My dream scenario:

1a) Linderbaum

1b) Lloyd

1c) Sanders or Ojabo

Stain on the sofa

2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

I still like Matt Corral in the draft.  Knowing the Eagles aren't looking at 3 top 10 picks, they won't be in position to nab one of the top defensive playmakers in the draft.  I think Corral can be had in the middle of the 1st.  In a sense he's the perfect combination of Hurts and Minshew.  He's got a great arm but isn't afraid to tuck it and run when needed....when needed being the key term.  His size worries me a bit.  He's listed at 6-2 205 so realistically he's probably in the 6-1 200 range.  Not sure that's ideal but I love the way he plays, his competitive nature and think he could be worth a 1st round investment.

Corral tucks it and runs far far far far far too much.  We already have that guy.

Let’s get a QB instead who goes through his progressions, reads the field, and distributes the football 

Aside from the QB issue, I think this offense needs the guy Reagor was drafted to be...more so than some token sluggish big possession WR to "complement" Devonta Smith.

Smith is a glider who gets open everywhere.  That's great.  But he's not really a dedicated turn and sprint go-route danger (not that we have a QB who can hit that throw), not really a LOS bubble screen/jet sweep and make something happen kind of weapon.  

Just because Reagor has failed doesn't mean the offense doesn't need that kind of player.

 

1 hour ago, The Blackfish said:

I just found the Eagles a replacement for Lane Johnson. 

Oliver Miller has been training him. 

31 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Aside from the QB issue, I think this offense needs the guy Reagor was drafted to be...more so than some token sluggish big possession WR to "complement" Devonta Smith.

Smith is a glider who gets open everywhere.  That's great.  But he's not really a dedicated turn and sprint go-route danger (not that we have a QB who can hit that throw), not really a LOS bubble screen/jet sweep and make something happen kind of weapon.  

Just because Reagor has failed doesn't mean the offense doesn't need that kind of player.

 

A big possession WR doesn't have to be sluggish, you can find guys with good hands and body control who run crisp routes and use their body to shield the ball. You can run a 4.6 40 and stil be highly effective, most passes are within 20 yards of the LOS, a guy like Avant was an invaluable role player, a guy like Jeffrey in his prime was a dominant WR.

While most fast WRs are "fails," because they can't translate their speed to the pro game, round off routes, can't high point balls, lack good hands, etc.

Tinker toys are fine, but you take them later in the draft, see Watkins. Deep threats who can't run the route tree shouldn't be taken in the 1st couple rounds.

A reliable possession WR who can move the chains is key for a top offense, he's the QBs' best friend. The other alternative is a H-back who has WR speed, Jackson has legitimate 4.59 speed at 6'7, but we'll see if he can run routes good enough to separate from LBs and safeties.

Smith, possession WR, Watkins, Goedert, Jackson? could be a heck of a receiving corp.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Minshew and Hurts have similar QBRs. That's not an accident. Minshew will have high QB ratings b/c they overvalue QBs who complete lots of short passes at a higher rate. But QBR is more focused on what he does in terms of efficiency in driving the offense.

Hurts has more upside, if he can improve his passing, Minshew pretty much is what he is.

If Hurts improves as a passer he can be special, if not, he's about as effective as Minshew, just with a different set of tools.

This year is about finding out if Hurts can continue to improve. That's why the last four games matter. Given a bye week to self-evaluate, we'll see if he can step up.

Where have you seen Hurts improve that he can continue?  He needs to learn how to be a QB at some of the most basic levels.  I'm all for giving him the rest of the season, as painful as it will be to watch for the sake of the draft pick.  My only apprehension is how much he's holding back the progression of the rest of the offensive talent.

Remember the "Hurts has a great deep ball” narrative? 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

Corral tucks it and runs far far far far far too much.  We already have that guy.

Let’s get a QB instead who goes through his progressions, reads the field, and distributes the football 

You mean like Minshew did on Sunday.

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

Minshew and Hurts have similar QBRs. That's not an accident. Minshew will have high QB ratings b/c they overvalue QBs who complete lots of short passes at a higher rate. But QBR is more focused on what he does in terms of efficiency in driving the offense.

Hurts has more upside, if he can improve his passing, Minshew pretty much is what he is.

If Hurts improves as a passer he can be special, if not, he's about as effective as Minshew, just with a different set of tools.

This year is about finding out if Hurts can continue to improve. That's why the last four games matter. Given a bye week to self-evaluate, we'll see if he can step up.

 Hurts QBR before the Detroit game was closer to 40-41, it went up because Siriani switched the offense from 65-35 pass to run, to 65-35 run to pass.  Hurts running ability is fairly counted for in QBR, and that’s why it sits at 48.  Hurts passer rating is 84, that’s not very good, even Heinicke’s is 92.  Anyone below 90 is having a bad year as a Passer. 
 
 Hurts 60% completion rate this season is really awful as well Murray, Tua, and Jones are top 3, considering they all have something in common with Hurts, that isn’t a good look for him especially since Jones, Murray, and Hurts all have equally very good O-Lines. Tua’s is historically bad. 

 Accuracy, and seeing the entire field are the two biggest issues Hurts needs to improve on significantly, in the final games of the season. 

Btw,  Goedert is the 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL and he’s turned into the highest paid pass catcher that run blocks.  
 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Remember the "Hurts has a great deep ball” narrative? 

Yea well the truth hurts…………. 
 

For the crowd that keeps pounding the table about Hurts' upside...

Best case scenario, who do you think he's going to become? Lamar? Genuinely curious.

Because you know, Lamar has been steadily declining, right? You know that now he's being asked to pass more his numbers have fallen off a cliff, right?

I wonder why that is. Couldn't be that running QBs continually get figured out, could it?

 

how can any person, still think hurts is gonna get better, his last outing was one of his baddest of the year, it all starts with the qb no matter what you think, if he uses his legs he is dangerous, but you know that wont last long, I know minshew isnt the answer, but if they are serious about the playoffs this year then you have to go with minshew, if you are wanting the higher draft pick then you roll with hurts, cause thats what he'll get you

6 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Remember the "Hurts has a great deep ball” narrative? 

When you say that I see perfectly thrown balls that just get dropped. That Watkins drop iE still haunts me.

6 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Remember the "Hurts has a great deep ball” narrative? 

No

9 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Why do I have people I don’t follow on my Twitter feed calling me crazy?
 

Am I also crazy if I want someone to play over both of them?

8 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

Dean or Lloyd will be there, Gardner or Booth as well.  Karlaftis won’t likely be, probably just Ojabo for edge rushers. 
 With Jurkovec and Haener both returning to college, next years QB draft should be interesting.  

I was hopeful Jurkovec might transfer, that BC O-line is gonna get him killed, same for Tanner McKee at Stanford but he’s likely more tied to that school.  If they have a decent line next year, McKee will be a top 3 pick. 

BC has a top 5 OL when healthy , with a cpl future NFL players …. the bad OL play was from backups , Jurkovec will be fine and if he stays healthy a top 30 pick 

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

For the crowd that keeps pounding the table about Hurts' upside...

Best case scenario, who do you think he's going to become? Lamar? Genuinely curious.

Because you know, Lamar has been steadily declining, right? You know that now he's being asked to pass more his numbers have fallen off a cliff, right?

I wonder why that is. Couldn't be that running QBs continually get figured out, could it?

 

I don't pound my chest about that, but....at absolute best....Tyrod Taylor or Jacoby Brissett come to mind. Tim Tebow.  RG3 isn't far off either.

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't pound my chest about that, but....at absolute best....Tyrod Taylor or Jacoby Brissett come to mind. Tim Tebow.  RG3 isn't far off either.

And I would agree with you. At his very best, he's a slightly more mobile Tyrod Taylor. Good enough to stay in the league, be a back up/spot starter and win some games? Sure.

Guy that can get you far into the postseason and a guy you can hitch your wagon to? Not a chance.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

RG3 was a better passer.  Just a fragile person and a terrible teammate 

I don't think Hurts will ever be a terrible teammate.  I am just thinking about how his football talent will translate.  Johnny Manziel (another terrible person) lit up college, but it didn't translate to the NFL.  Hurts will outlast him by a long shot.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

RG3 was a better passer.  Just a fragile person and a terrible teammate 

And an even worse color guy for ESPN.  He has to have some strange one-liner after every play.