5 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Uhhh....getting caught?!?!

 

They definitely cheated early in his career and contributed to winning SBs. However let’s not pretend like New England wouldn’t have been great. They continued that greatness for most of his career after they got busted.

I hate Tom Brady the football player. But in respect his greatness on the field and i watch cause i want to see what he can try to accomplish next.  but off the field and personality wise i don’t mind him at all. I actually think he’s been more relatable and personable since going to Tampa Bay.

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Even if we just compare his QBR to the others on this list....it's astonishingly low. Whatever they use to calculate QBR, only Dak?? is somehow lower? 

I took the average rating of this list, less Minshew, and the average rating is 56.15.

So, at the very least, you could easily say he's below average. 

Does that include the ones I didn't screen cap?

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Here's a useless ranking... They put Hurts at #20.  So, I guess Hurts isn't top 10.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32071373/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2021-how-all-32-teams-qbs-stack-weekly-big-takeaways

 

You do have to question what their ranking is based on.  Their own metric (QBR) doesn't seem to be in any way, shape or form connected to it.   
Is Hurts' QBR really 48.5?  How is that 'top 10'?  What about passer rating?  Completion pct?  yards?  Yards per attempt?    Is there any metric for a QB where Hurts actually qualifies as top 10?

Rushing yards by a Quarterback? I don't know if that qualifies or not.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Does that include the ones I didn't screen cap?

Nope. Only the 20 there. 

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

True I remember that one time Reid and the eagles got busted for taping other teams, or when tony dungy got busted because his whole team was deflating balls.

The Pats have been busted twice by the league for cheating during seasons they won.

And what did the league do, destroyed the evidence and fined the coach and took away picks.

One can argue whether they should have been punished more strictly but it's pretty cut and dry that they cheated.

The deflated balls doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I think Brady still would’ve beaten teams. Heck the second half against the colts in that game he went on to just annihilate the colts.  

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Here's a useless ranking... They put Hurts at #20.  So, I guess Hurts isn't top 10.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32071373/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2021-how-all-32-teams-qbs-stack-weekly-big-takeaways

 

You do have to question what their ranking is based on.  Their own metric (QBR) doesn't seem to be in any way, shape or form connected to it.   
Is Hurts' QBR really 48.5?  How is that 'top 10'?  What about passer rating?  Completion pct?  yards?  Yards per attempt?    Is there any metric for a QB where Hurts actually qualifies as top 10?

Just off the cuff: looking at this ranking - Wilson and Mac Jones too low. Murray, Prescott and Lamar Jackson too high.  Wentz should be a little higher. 

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

True I remember that one time Reid and the eagles got busted for taping other teams, or when tony dungy got busted because his who team was deflating balls.

The Pats have been busted twice by the league for cheating during seasons they won.

And what did the league do, destroyed the evidence and fined the coach and took away picks.

One can argue whether they should have been punished more strictly but it's pretty cut and dry that they cheated.

Deflategate was a joke. They re-inflated the balls for the 2nd half, where the Pats put up 28 points compared to 17 in the first half. Spygate was far more serious.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They definitely cheated early in his career and contributed to winning SBs. However let’s not pretend like New England wouldn’t have been great. They continued that greatness for most of his career after they got busted.

I hate Tom Brady the football player. But in respect his greatness on the field and i watch cause i want to see what he can try to accomplish next.  but off the field and personality wise i don’t mind him at all. I actually think he’s been more relatable and personable since going to Tampa Bay.

The problem for Brady is simply the unknown. We simply don't know what he would have done in those 3 championship seasons without the cheating. It's not like the 2001-2004 Pats were being led by Brady and the offense; they were a defensive team. It wasn't until ~2007 that Brady became "Brady." 

I've been watching football for over 30 years. I won't say that people who claim Brady as the GOAT are wrong, but for me...the guy I fear most, with the game on the line and he has a chance to win it...

Joe Montana

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Saw him say producing like a top 10 QB. Ah the yard are yards argument. Meanwhile so is kirk cousins (and has been for the better part of 6 years) doing the same and continuously nothing to show for it. they are continuously stuck in purgatory. Love the whole producing like a top 10 QB argument meanwhile ignoring our Qb is 21st in QBR, 26th in QB rating, 23rd in passing attempts, 28th in completion percentage and 24th in passing yards. 

All Yards Matter!

1 minute ago, Ipiggles said:

Just off the cuff: looking at this ranking - Wilson and Mac Jones too low. Murray, Prescott and Lamar Jackson too high.  Wentz should be a little higher. 

Murray really hasn’t looked good since returning from the injury after the bye. He’s had spots here and there but i think his ankle is still bothering him. However that’s a problem with murray is he is smaller so he’s always going to have injury concerns over the long course of the season. This is the second straight year at the end of the year he’s had some sort of injury that has affected his performance

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

True I remember that one time Reid and the eagles got busted for taping other teams, or when tony dungy got busted because his whole team was deflating balls.

The Pats have been busted twice by the league for cheating during seasons they won.

And what did the league do, destroyed the evidence and fined the coach and took away picks.

One can argue whether they should have been punished more strictly but it's pretty cut and dry that they cheated.

And everyone is looking for an edge.  How did so many teams call out our plays on the field when Dougie P was the coach ??  If it was just about reading defenses, all NFL teams would be doing it, they got an edge somehow.

In regards to deflated balls, the difference was negligible, and Brady was lights out in the second half after they corrected that negligible difference. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

The problem for Brady is simply the unknown. We simply don't know what he would have done in those 3 championship seasons without the cheating. It's not like the 2001-2004 Pats were being led by Brady and the offense; they were a defensive team. It wasn't until ~2007 that Brady became "Brady." 

I've been watching football for over 30 years. I won't say that people who claim Brady as the GOAT are wrong, but for me...the guy I fear most, with the game on the line and he has a chance to win it...

Joe Montana

I don't think that you need to fear him anymore.  

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Here's a useless ranking... They put Hurts at #20.  So, I guess Hurts isn't top 10.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32071373/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2021-how-all-32-teams-qbs-stack-weekly-big-takeaways

 

You do have to question what their ranking is based on.  Their own metric (QBR) doesn't seem to be in any way, shape or form connected to it.   
Is Hurts' QBR really 48.5?  How is that 'top 10'?  What about passer rating?  Completion pct?  yards?  Yards per attempt?    Is there any metric for a QB where Hurts actually qualifies as top 10?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't QBR the stat that also takes into account the QB running ??????  @jsb235 why is Hurts not top 10 in a stat that includes his hall of fame running ??????

I was behind a car today.  The window had Cowboys, Yankees and Lakers stickers on it.  Would LOVE to hear why he's such a big fan of each team.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

The problem for Brady is simply the unknown. We simply don't know what he would have done in those 3 championship seasons without the cheating. It's not like the 2001-2004 Pats were being led by Brady and the offense; they were a defensive team. It wasn't until ~2007 that Brady became "Brady." 

I've been watching football for over 30 years. I won't say that people who claim Brady as the GOAT are wrong, but for me...the guy I fear most, with the game on the line and he has a chance to win it...

Joe Montana

The defense was great during that stretch. It was good but i don’t think ever to that level consistently after that SB victory against the eagles. but Brady developed and became a at worse top 3 QB of all time  

I would be more in the corner of thinking cheating was the biggest driving force for winning those 3 early Super Bowls if the patriots completely fell off a cliff after winning those three Super Bowls. It would give more validity. Don’t get me wrong the cheating definitely helped but I think the patriots still would have been great during that stretch. Maybe not win three Super Bowls but I could see them winning a lot during that early stretch  

that said after that Tom Brady nearly had a perfect season and got them three more Super Bowl victories. and you can make the argument that he could’ve won more if not for Nick Foles playing the game of his life and Eli Manning having one of the luckiest throws in nfl history. 

i think Montana and Brady are the two best QBs in nfl history. I can see both arguments. I give it to Brady due to longevity, proving that after those three cheating Super Bowls he still became even better and even greater and he might wind up finishing with another SB or maybe even two. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The deflated balls doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I think Brady still would’ve beaten teams. Heck the second half against the colts in that game he went on to just annihilate the colts.  

It wasn't just that game, it was a whole season, possibly more 

Over a few seasons span the pats had the least amount of fumbles in the NFL, before deflate gate, one could say hey thats good coaching or one could notice that a deflated ball is much easier to hold onto.

The team directly benefited from deflated balls as did Brady as it was easier for him to throw and easier for receiver to catch a deflated ball and easier for ball carriers to hold onto.

One can say yeah but they still won after being busted for spygate and deflate gate.

And I'd say whose to say they still aren't cheating and the league just turns a blind eye?

It's not cheating if you don't get caught right?

Having said that after being busted even with a stacked team they lost to the Giants twice, maybe not being able to take walk throughs and deflate balls didn't give them the competitive advantage they were accustomed to and was instead a fair playing field.

Brady is a cheater, in not convinced he still isn't cheating in Tampa, why wouldbt he, he got busted twice and the worst thing that happened is he's called the GOAT 

F The Pats F Ton Brady, they will always be cheaters 

 

 

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I was behind a car today.  The window had Cowboys, Yankees and Lakers stickers on it.  Would LOVE to hear why he's such a big fan of each team.

Knew a guy like that.  He called it an efficient rooting strategy.

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Would LOVE to hear why he's such a big fan of each team.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dope

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

It wasn't just that game, it was a whole season, possibly more 

Over a few seasons span the pats had the least amount of fumbles in the NFL, before deflate gate, one could say hey thats good coaching or one could notice that a deflated ball is much easier to hold onto.

The team directly benefited from deflated balls as did Brady as it was easier for him to throw and easier for receiver to catch a deflated ball and easier for ball carriers to hold onto.

One can say yeah but they still won after being busted for spygate and deflate gate.

And I'd say whose to say they still aren't cheating and the league just turns a blind eye?

It's not cheating if you don't get caught right?

Having said that after being busted even with a stacked team they lost to the Giants twice, maybe not being able to take walk throughs and deflate balls didn't give them the competitive advantage they were accustomed to and was instead a fair playing field.

Brady is a cheater, in not convinced he still isn't cheating in Tampa, why wouldbt he, he got busted twice and the worst thing that happened is he's called the GOAT 

F The Pats F Ton Brady, they will always be cheaters 

 

 

referee Bill Vinovich said,

We test them. It's 12.5 to 13.5. We put 13 in every ball. ... Dean tested a couple in the office and had one under-inflated and one to specs, and you really couldn't tell the difference unless you actually sat there and tried to squeeze the thing or did some extraordinary thing. If someone just tossed you the ball, especially in 20 degree weather, you're going to pretty much play with the ball. They are going to be hard. You're not going to notice the difference.^[33]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think that you need to fear him anymore.  

I'd take Joe Montana now over Hurts

Just now, Utebird said:

It wasn't just that game, it was a whole season, possibly more 

Over a few seasons span the pats had the least amount of fumbles in the NFL, before deflate gate, one could say hey thats good coaching or one could notice that a deflated ball is much easier to hold onto.

The team directly benefited from deflated balls as did Brady as it was easier for him to throw and easier for receiver to catch a deflated ball and easier for ball carriers to hold onto.

One can say yeah but they still won after being busted for spygate and deflate gate.

And I'd say whose to say they still aren't cheating and the league just turns a blind eye?

It's not cheating if you don't get caught right?

Having said that after being busted even with a stacked team they lost to the Giants twice, maybe not being able to take walk throughs and deflate balls didn't give them the competitive advantage they were accustomed to and was instead a fair playing field.

Brady is a cheater, in not convinced he still isn't cheating in Tampa, why wouldbt he, he got busted twice and the worst thing that happened is he's called the GOAT 

F The Pats F Ton Brady, they will always be cheaters 

 

 

Just pointing out Brady is killing it and he’s using regular inflated footballs now. So deflated or inflated it doesn’t really matter because Tom Brady has shown you he’s going to be really Fing good regardless. how do you explain his last two years in Tampa Bay where there hasn’t been deflated balls? He might just be really Fing good

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Deflategate was a joke. They re-inflated the balls for the 2nd half, where the Pats put up 28 points compared to 17 in the first half. Spygate was far more serious.

If it was a joke why were the oats doing it all year and possibly in previous years???

Pats had the least amount of fumbles in the league that year and years previous before deflate gate, a deflated ball is easier to hold onto less likely to fumble or drop especially in adverse weather which in foxborough is a thing.

If it was a joke why did Brady smash his cell phone containing evidence?

Either way it was cheating, Brady and the pats broke the rules to gain a competitive advantage over their opponents and they did it more than just that one game.

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Just pointing out Brady is killing it and he’s using regular inflated footballs now. So deflated or inflated it doesn’t really matter because Tom Brady has shown you he’s going to be really Fing good regardless. how do you explain his last two years in Tampa Bay where there hasn’t been deflated balls? He might just be really Fing good

Lol imagine being butt hurt over deflategate. It was a joke then and is a joke now. 

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dope

Speaking of, I noticed that Jackson Mahomes was trending today.  Apparently he went after a local bar in some social media posts so the bar replied in a fantastic way....only to apologize about it.  Ugh, have a backbone.

 

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

If it was a joke why were the oats doing it all year and possibly in previous years???

Pats had the least amount of fumbles in the league that year and years previous before deflate gate, a deflated ball is easier to hold onto less likely to fumble or drop especially in adverse weather which in foxborough is a thing.

If it was a joke why did Brady smash his cell phone containing evidence?

Either way it was cheating, Brady and the pats broke the rules to gain a competitive advantage over their opponents and they did it more than just that one game.

 

If it was such an advantage, why did no teams notice it? Even the guy who intercepted the ball in question had this to say:

After the play was over, Jackson handed the ball to the Colts equipment manager for safekeeping as a souvenir. Early reports suggested that Jackson was the first to suspect the ball was deflated, but Jackson said he did not notice anything wrong with the ball he caught.^[15] Jackson says he actually did not even know the ball was taken or that the controversy existed until he was being driven home from the team's charter plane after the Colts had arrived in Indianapolis. "I wouldn't know how that could even be an advantage or a disadvantage," Jackson said, "I definitely wouldn't be able to tell if one ball had less pressure than another."

15 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

referee Bill Vinovich said,

We test them. It's 12.5 to 13.5. We put 13 in every ball. ... Dean tested a couple in the office and had one under-inflated and one to specs, and you really couldn't tell the difference unless you actually sat there and tried to squeeze the thing or did some extraordinary thing. If someone just tossed you the ball, especially in 20 degree weather, you're going to pretty much play with the ball. They are going to be hard. You're not going to notice the difference.^[33]

I'd take Joe Montana now over Hurts

If no one noticed the difference and if no one thought it made a difference than why did the pats deflate balls, if it wasn't a big deal why did the league punish the pats.

Again one can argue about how much deflating balls helped the pats and either way they broke rules in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage. Which is cheating.

Like I said F Brady F the pats