1 hour ago, austinfan said:

I'm not worried about Howie and the draft, he's basically as good as the people around him, Howie's gift is reading the board and trading up and down. But he depends on the personnel guys getting on the same page with the coaches and telling him who to draft.

Pederson and Schwartz had a lot of pull on personnel decisions the last few years (I think that was one of the conditions hiring Schwartz). it's obvious Schwartz wanted veterans on defense and Pederson wanted speed on offense. And they overrode the personnel guys.

The last draft I got more of a feel that everyone was on the same page, Donohue may not have liked the Williams trade down and pick, but no one else seemed unhappy.

This year, with Sirianni and Gannon with a good sense of the current personnel, Gannon with experience as a scout, both with recent experience as position coaches, I think they'll work much better with the personnel guys because they're more comfortable with young players and coaching them up, rather than wanting to plug and play. Notice how well they do drafting OL - I think that's because Stoutland knows what qualities he wants in his players b/c he's hands on.

Much of drafting isn't about talent, but fit and intangibles. Having coaches with hands on experience makes them more focused on coachability, not just how athletic a player is, but does he have the work ethic, IQ, motor, etc. to be turned into a NFL player.

 

Let's hope this is the case and that the coaching staff and scouts do work better together.  It's Howie's job to be the facilitator between them and help guide everyone into an acceptable decision.  Having a hands on mentality is something I do like about Sirianni and hopefully that's how he put his staff together as a group that enjoys teaching and developing.

 

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Honestly, you would think they would use some sort of hybrid that wouldn't be completely dormant over the winter.  I think the problem would be root damage to the bermuda given the usage.  

I said so. 

I'm asking why you think he was/is one? I think you're wrong but I still want to know your reasoning 

35 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I'm not some sort of yard guru but I think that grass needs watering.  

What?  You have a green thumb.  It's in your avatar.

You beat me to it, Casey.

 

31 minutes ago, olsilverhair said:

Some type of Bermuda, probably, cold makes it go dormant, thus the brown color

Could also be Zoysia.

 

2 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

OK.

 

So do you trade 2 of our firsts (or maybe a 1&2) to move up and get one of the top DEs?

Gonna have to get into the top 5 for one of those two, I think there's too many needs to sacrifice the amount it will take to get up there. The Dolphins really screwed us by going on their winning streak, hopefully them and the Colts can drop the last two to help the picks a bit. 

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

As far as our draft class (or draft classes in general), I don't really care about what the statistical expectations are for draft picks in each round based on history (which we are often reminded of).  If that's where you set the bar, then good luck winning a SB by targeting the average result for your draft picks.  You won't hit the following, but it should be a goal...

For the first round and 2nd round, you want someone who contributes every week by the late stages of the season, although they don't necessarily need to start, given how rotation-heavy certain positions are.  You want signs that they have talent to win matchups and be a reason your team wins.  For 2021, they've actually accomplished that.

3rd round...you want them to show something on the field as a rookie at some point in the season.  Flash something.  They don't need a role, don't need to be used all the time...but play at some point and show us some potential.  Be a good backup.  Milton Williams has definitely managed that.  With the right coaching and development, their 2nd year expectations are upgraded to the expectations of a rookie 1st/2nd round pick.

4-7...make the team and earn it.  Don't be a liability on ST.  They probably will be a liability if they see the field outside of ST.  Go into year 2 with the goal of being a good backup and contributing on more than just ST.  Try to get one real player from this band per draft....obviously, that doesn't happen, but it should be a goal.  We'll learn more about all those guys next year.  I don't think any of them have immediately proven to be out of their depth or flashed anything special.

 

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I think it’s good to set a goal of picking up a Mailata in the late rounds every 5-10 years, ideally closer to 5.  It may sound crazy, but they aren’t that far off.

Trent Cole, 2005

Jason Kelce, 2011

Mailata, 2018.

Heck, that’s better than any 3 first rounders from the last 15 years.

 

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I have criticized Howie a lot for his drafting (who hasn't?)...but I actually think he has done a really, really good job with mid/late round picks and has been really bad in rounds 1-2.  

I think he panics with the early picks.  Danny Watkins and Marcus Smith were bizarrely rationalized reaches.  Jordan Matthews and JJAW were low upside cinderblock footed WRs who fit the narrow checkboxes they were looking for.  Reagor was a panic departure from Jeffery/JJAW when they missed out on the explosive athlete the year before.  There's more, but there are just a graveyard of 1st and 2nd round picks with very few success stories.  And the success stories were obvious.  Devonta Smith sitting there with his background.  Lane Johnson nearly dictated to them with how the top 5 broke in 2011.  

I think he flat out drafts more talented players in the later rounds because there is less fear of swinging and missing...which not only results in more talent but also results in fewer swings and misses.  Kelce over Danny Watkins.  Quez Watkins over Reagor.  Mailata over Dillard.

They generally find more explosive athletes with less of a fixed ceiling later in the draft than what they somehow rationalize settling for early on.

When the discussion in the Blog is working at a high level, we have the pleasure of seeing really excellent posting like the three above by eagle45.  There is an evolution in the posts, as well as a really complementary aspect of the three "as a whole"

Thank you to eveyone for your individual and collective contributions to the discussions here.  A lot of them are highly polarized, but wading through them to get to gems like eagle45's above is well worth the effort and the time.

I'm also glad I'm on the West Coast with the three hour time difference.  If I didn't have that delay I'd have probably snapped off a terse response to eagle45's first post, and that would have been much less productive than taking the time to read on and discover how he (and others) had peeled back the onion of the topic, giving it depth and breadth and context.  My snap response to the first comment would have been that the average is not a goal, but just the aggregate reality that is accumulated by the Draft actions of all 32 teams.  At the teams have their successes and failures in the Draft.  I agree with eagle45 that setting that average as the goal will almost surely guarantee mediocrity.

JMO

Matt

 

4 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

I don't think Linderbaum will be there when we pick, but I hope he is.  I also think we trade one of the picks for a 2023 1st and a 2nd or 3rd day pick on 2022.  If we only use 2 of the picks I hope they are 2 of this group:

Leal, Ojabo, Lloyd, Dean, Elam, McCreary, Gardner, Brisker.

Here is an interesting article about the 2021 Draft put together by ESPN.  The size and location of Tier 5 is interesting.  I'm also going to put together a cross reference with the actual Drafted player list to see how that cross reference looked ... who moved up and who moved down.

NFL Draft Talent Tiers - 2021

Welcome to Scouts Inc.'s tier rankings. What are the tier rankings? They are a helpful draft resource for some NFL general managers. (We know of three specifically who utilize this tool.) First, by ranking prospects in tiers it can help resist the urge to take a lower rated player at a position of greater need. Second, it can help to show which portions of a draft class are deep and which are lean -- both in overall talent and at certain positions.

By comparison, the 2012 draft was noticeably stronger at the top -- particularly in Tier 1 (six players), Tier 3 (nine players) and Tier 5 (23 players). The 2012 class also had three quarterbacks -- Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Ryan Tannehill in the top three tiers -- but the first signal-caller in 2013 (Geno Smith) doesn't show up until Tier 5.

On the flipside, the 2013 class is significantly stronger on Day 2. In addition, the 2013 class has 107 players in the top seven tiers compared to 94 in 2012.

Here is the final of three editions of 2013 tier rankings.

-- Todd McShay

 

Tier 1
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
1	Trevor Lawrence	QB	Clemson	6'5⅝"	213	97
2	Kyle Pitts	TE	Florida	6'5⅝"	245	94
Tier 2
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
3	Ja'Marr Chase	WR	LSU	6'0⅜"	201	94
4	Zach Wilson	QB	BYU	6'2⅛"	214	93
5	Penei Sewell	OT	Oregon	6'4⅞"	331	93
6	DeVonta Smith	WR	Alabama	6'0¼"	170	93
7	Jaylen Waddle	WR	Alabama	5'9½"	180	93
8	Rashawn Slater	OT	Northwestern	6'4¼"	304	93
9	Trey Lance	QB	North Dakota State	6'3⅞"	224	92
Tier 3
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
10	Pat Surtain II	CB	Alabama	6'2"	208	92
11	Justin Fields	QB	Ohio State	6'2¾"	227	91
12	Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	ILB	Notre Dame	6'1½"	221	91
13	Alijah Vera-Tucker	OG	USC	6'4½"	308	91
14	Jaycee Horn	CB	South Carolina	6'0¾"	205	91
15	Mac Jones	QB	Alabama	6'2⅝"	217	90
Tier 4
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
16	Micah Parsons	ILB	Penn State	6'3⅛"	246	90
17	Trevon Moehrig	S	TCU	6'0⅝"	202	90
18	Kwity Paye	DE	Michigan	6'2½"	261	90
19	Caleb Farley	CB	Virginia Tech	6'1⅞"	197	90
20	Christian Darrisaw	OT	Virginia Tech	6'4¾"	322	90
21	Jaelan Phillips	DE	Miami	6'5½"	260	90
22	Travis Etienne	RB	Clemson	5'10⅛"	215	90
23	Elijah Moore	WR	Ole Miss	5'9½"	178	90
24	Greg Newsome II	CB	Northwestern	6'0"	192	90
25	Jamin Davis	ILB	Kentucky	6'3½"	234	90
Tier 5
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
26	Teven Jenkins	OT	Oklahoma State	6'5⅞"	317	89
27	Zaven Collins	OLB	Tulsa	6'4⅞"	259	89
28	Najee Harris	RB	Alabama	6'1⅜"	232	89
29	Rashod Bateman	WR	Minnesota	6'0⅜"	190	89
30	Christian Barmore	DT	Alabama	6'4⅛"	310	89
31	Azeez Ojulari	OLB	Georgia	6'2¼"	249	88
32	Kadarius Toney	WR	Florida	5'11⅝"	193	88
33	Liam Eichenberg	OT	Notre Dame	6'6⅛"	306	88
34	Asante Samuel Jr.	CB	Florida State	5'10⅛"	180	88
35	Javonte Williams	RB	North Carolina	5'9⅝"	212	88
36	Ronnie Perkins	DE	Oklahoma	6'2½"	253	88
37	Joe Tryon	OLB	Washington	6'5"	259	88
38	Odafe Oweh	OLB	Penn State	6'4⅞"	257	87
39	Dillon Radunz	OT	North Dakota State	6'5¾"	301	87
40	Nick Bolton	ILB	Missouri	5'11⅛"	237	87
41	Tyson Campbell	CB	Georgia	6'1"	193	86
42	Levi Onwuzurike	DT	Washington	6'2⅞"	290	86
43	Carlos Basham Jr.	DE	Wake Forest	6'3¼"	274	86
44	Tutu Atwell	WR	Louisville	5'8⅞"	155	85
45	Landon Dickerson	C	Alabama	6'5⅝"	333	85
46	Terrace Marshall Jr.	WR	LSU	6'2½"	205	84
47	Jabril Cox	ILB	LSU	6'3¼"	232	84
48	Gregory Rousseau	DE	Miami	6'6⅝"	266	84
49	Elijah Molden	CB	Washington	5'9½"	192	83
Tier 6
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
50	Andre Cisco	S	Syracuse	6'0⅝"	216	82
51	Chazz Surratt	ILB	North Carolina	6'2⅛"	229	82
52	Hunter Long	TE	Boston College	6'5"	254	82
53	Richie Grant	S	UCF	5'11⅝"	197	82
54	Rondale Moore	WR	Purdue	5'7"	181	81
55	Creed Humphrey	C	Oklahoma	6'4¼"	302	81
56	Jevon Holland	S	Oregon	6'0⅝"	207	81
57	D'Wayne Eskridge	WR	Western Michigan	5'8¾"	190	80
58	Pat Freiermuth	TE	Penn State	6'5"	251	80
59	Ifeatu Melifonwu	CB	Syracuse	6'2½"	205	80
60	Alex Leatherwood	OT	Alabama	6'4¾"	312	80
61	Quinn Meinerz	OG	Wisconsin-Whitewater	6'2⅞"	320	80
62	Walker Little	OT	Stanford	6'7⅜"	313	80
63	Davis Mills	QB	Stanford	6'3¾"	217	79
Tier 7
OVR	Player	POS	School	HT	WT	Grade
64	Kelvin Joseph	CB	Kentucky	5'11½"	197	79
65	Kyle Trask	QB	Florida	6'5¼"	236	78
66	Samuel Cosmi	OT	Texas	6'5⅞"	314	78
67	Kellen Mond	QB	Texas A&M	6'2⅝"	211	77
68	Patrick Jones II	DE	Pittsburgh	6'4¼"	261	77
69	Chris Rumph II	OLB	Duke	6'2⅞"	244	77
70	Alim McNeill	DT	NC State	6'1⅞"	317	77
71	Eric Stokes	CB	Georgia	6'0⅝"	194	76
72	Anthony Schwartz	WR	Auburn	6'0"	186	76
73	Payton Turner	DE	Houston	6'5½"	268	76
74	Aaron Robinson	CB	UCF	5'11½"	186	76
75	Tylan Wallace	WR	Oklahoma State	5'11⅜"	194	76
76	Nico Collins	WR	Michigan	6'4⅛"	215	75
77	Spencer Brown	OT	Northern Iowa	6'8¼"	311	75
78	Jackson Carman	OT	Clemson	6'4⅞"	317	75
79	Trey Sermon	RB	Ohio State	6'0⅜"	215	75
80	Milton Williams	DT	Louisiana Tech	6'3"	284	75
81	Benjamin St-Juste	CB	Minnesota	6'3¼"	202	75
82	Wyatt Davis	OG	Ohio State	6'3⅝"	315	74
83	Michael Carter	RB	North Carolina	5'7⅞"	201	74
84	Joseph Ossai	DE	Texas	6'3¾"	256	74
85	Tay Gowan	CB	UCF	6'0⅞"	186	74
86	Amari Rodgers	WR	Clemson	5'9½"	212	74
87	Osa Odighizuwa	DT	UCLA	6'1⅝"	282	73
88	James Hudson	OT	Cincinnati	6'4¾"	313	73
89	Shi Smith	WR	South Carolina	5'9½"	186	73
90	Shakur Brown	CB	Michigan State	5'9¾"	185	73
91	Jamar Johnson	S	Indiana	5'11⅞"	205	73
92	Aaron Banks	OG	Notre Dame	6'5⅜"	325	73
93	Tommy Tremble	TE	Notre Dame	6'3⅜"	241	73
94	Cade Johnson	WR	South Dakota State	5'10⅝"	184	72
95	Paulson Adebo	CB	Stanford	6'1"	198	72
96	Richard LeCounte	S	Georgia	5'10½"	196	72
97	Jay Tufele	DT	USC	6'2⅛"	305	72
98	Dyami Brown	WR	North Carolina	6'0⅝"	189	71
99	Pete Werner	ILB	Ohio State	6'2⅞"	238	71
100	Trey Smith	OG	Tennessee	6'5½"	321	71
101	Shaun Wade	CB	Ohio State	6'0⅝"	196	71
102	Hamsah Nasirildeen	S	Florida State	6'3¼"	215	71
103	Daviyon Nixon	DT	Iowa	6'3⅛"	313	71
104	Brevin Jordan	TE	Miami	6'2⅝"	247	71
105	Sage Surratt	WR	Wake Forest	6'2½"	209	70
106	Josh Myers	C	Ohio State	6'5¼"	310	70
107	Baron Browning	OLB	Ohio State	6'2¾"	245	70

Tier Glossary

• Tier 1: These are the elite prospects, those who have the potential to come off the board in the top five overall picks.
• Tier 2: This tier is composed of players who are a notch below elite but are still top-10 quality.
• Tier 3: The prospects will offer good value between picks 10 and 20.
• Tier 4: These prospects have the tools to be good value picks in the late-first round.
• Tier 5: These are the players teams will begin targeting as value picks early in Round 2 should they fall out of Round 1.
• Tier 6: This tier contains prospects who are worthy of mid-to-late-second-round consideration.
• Tier 7: These players rank as solid third-round prospects.

Analysis by ESPN Scouts Inc.

14 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

It’s just like down here.  My grass and the grass at my golf course is brown.  Just goes dormant.  Has nothing to do with water or lack there of.  

yeah - I had bermuda when I lived in Raleigh.  Some people seed it with Rye grass in the fall/winter so they have a green lawn.  

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Anyone ever tripod cook over a campfire?  

 

My wife got me a set up like this for Christmas and I am going to start using it this weekend.  

 

Not sure if you're a stew person, but you can make a good one with that setup.

 

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

As far as our draft class (or draft classes in general), I don't really care about what the statistical expectations are for draft picks in each round based on history (which we are often reminded of).  If that's where you set the bar, then good luck winning a SB by targeting the average result for your draft picks.  You won't hit the following, but it should be a goal...

For the first round and 2nd round, you want someone who contributes every week by the late stages of the season, although they don't necessarily need to start, given how rotation-heavy certain positions are.  You want signs that they have talent to win matchups and be a reason your team wins.  For 2021, they've actually accomplished that.

3rd round...you want them to show something on the field as a rookie at some point in the season.  Flash something.  They don't need a role, don't need to be used all the time...but play at some point and show us some potential.  Be a good backup.  Milton Williams has definitely managed that.  With the right coaching and development, their 2nd year expectations are upgraded to the expectations of a rookie 1st/2nd round pick.

4-7...make the team and earn it.  Don't be a liability on ST.  They probably will be a liability if they see the field outside of ST.  Go into year 2 with the goal of being a good backup and contributing on more than just ST.  Try to get one real player from this band per draft....obviously, that doesn't happen, but it should be a goal.  We'll learn more about all those guys next year.  I don't think any of them have immediately proven to be out of their depth or flashed anything special.

That's pretty much my expectation every year, with the caveat that you're going to miss some, hitting on day three is how good teams compensate for the inevitable miss in the first three rounds, especially the second and third rounds. And when you miss, you hope they have a high enough floor to contribute, even if they never start, throughout that first contract.

And you have to have realistic expectations, the problem with JJAW isn't that he isn't a starter given where he was picked, but that he's not the 3rd WR/ST maven that you'd want as a floor there. Avant plus.

Dillard isn't a miss, he'd be starting at LT for most teams this year, he's just behind two All Pro level talents (Lane is proven and Mailata is on his way). He held his own when he did play.

Reagor is a mess, even if he was over drafted, he should at least be a plus PR and a dangerous gadget  type player. He's not even that.

Most rookies don't dress or play primarily on STs, the key season for them is their second year, when their head is no longer swimming and they've had a year to physically mature and prepare themselves for the NFL - Stevens is a good example, they probably want him to add strength to play LB, but next year he needs to be a ST cover guy and push for a nickel LB role.

 

50 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Plenty of reports out there of him needing to be babied by the organization, openly disregarding what coaches are telling him in meetings and refusing to run certain plays in practice.  He was not a player who was open to being coached and receptive of coaching. 

You believe to many reports. He just stunk last year like the whole team. 

 They had Parsons as a tier 4, I think everyone  here would of had him as a tier 2 at the lowest, Zach Wilson and Trey Lance in Tier 2 are pretty big reaches.  
 Lance threw a total of 315-320 passes in college, PAC 12 schools wanted him to switch to safety.   
 It’s a crapshoot, you don’t know what’s going on in a players head on each play, which is the biggest reason why high drafted QB’s fail. 

23 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Those people are dorks.  

Yeah, that would be one of the most common ones.  I am thinking of going with chili con carne first.  I got a grill grate as well, just waiting on the chain for the grate to come in.  

Pork and beans would be another option. 

3 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

So do you trade 2 of our firsts (or maybe a 1&2) to move up and get one of the top DEs?

I don't. There are too many positions on the D that need to be upgraded to consolidate two picks into one.

JMO

1 hour ago, Next_Up said:

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Meggett

Dave meggett during his playing days weighed about 190 pounds so...

25 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Anyone ever tripod cook over a campfire?  

 

My wife got me a set up like this for Christmas and I am going to start using it this weekend.  

 

I had a similar setup when I lived up north and made chili and venison stew—both of which turned out amazing. I wanted to try a Dutch oven pizza but never got a chance to.

They can be a bit tricky to cook with, though. I’d recommend a denser hardwood, which burns longer, allowing you to achieve a steady simmer when cooking. And birch bark is also full of natural oils, which makes it excellent fire-lighting tinder material.

9 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I don't. There are too many positions on the D that need to be upgraded to consolidate two picks into one.

JMO

To get a stud?  Do you want to keep getting the Sweats and Barnetts to rush the qb?  ( is there even a stud de in this years draft?)

57 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 

 

My snap response to the first comment would have been that the average is not a goal, but just the aggregate reality that is accumulated by the Draft actions of all 32 teams.  At the teams have their successes and failures in the Draft.  I agree with eagle45 that setting that average as the goal will almost surely guarantee mediocrity.

JMO

Matt

 

I really like the bold.  Better than I put it.

3 minutes ago, greend said:

To get a stud?  Do you want to keep getting the Sweats and Barnetts to rush the qb?  ( is there even a stud de in this years draft?)

The problem is that the combination of any two of the Eagles' three Round One choices isn't going to get you to a high enough pick to get one of the studs.  They can hypothetically get you to pick #5 if you are lucky, but the studs are likely to go #1 and #2.

Didn’t know if it was posted but apparently Adam caplan said he "can’t imagine” the eagles extending miles sanders due to his injury history. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Didn’t know if it was posted but apparently Adam caplan said he "can’t imagine” the eagles extending miles sanders due to his injury history. 

Meanwhile Rueben Frank said they should extend him this offseason

54 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

You believe to many reports. He just stunk last year like the whole team. 

 

Whole lotta smoke there that had been there for years. 

19 minutes ago, greend said:

To get a stud?  Do you want to keep getting the Sweats and Barnetts to rush the qb?  ( is there even a stud de in this years draft?)

 

Best player in the draft is probably a DE. 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Anyone ever tripod cook over a campfire?  

 

My wife got me a set up like this for Christmas and I am going to start using it this weekend.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yeah.  I’ll be using charcoal a lot as well.  We have a lot of pine here in my woods, I use to just have a fire going.  But only don’t wanna use that to cook with.  

Pine is good to get a fire started, but yes, you need hardwood to get good steady heat. Also, if you find a recently dead pine, you can check the branches for fatwood. The resin in the trunk runs down and pools in the branches when the tree dies, it concentrates and is extremely flammable. Nature's fire starter. Birch bark as mentioned will also start a fire, even when it's wet.