9 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Everybody kicks the can down the road

I'm not sure everybody does it quite to the extent that Howie does. And ultimately at some point Howie is going to have a huge QB contract to handle again and that's going to reduce how flexible he can be with the cap.

10 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

It's solely a cap manoeuvre so it usually accelerates as dead cap when they retire or is paid in that year if they restructure (because it's usually max prorated already and can't be moved backwards any longer).

I don't get the sense of creating cap this year unless it's to extend one or all of Barnett, Sweat and Goedert, who look to be the only outstanding long term pieces that aren't nailed down.

 

 

I am not sure Barnett is worth the extension. IF we have 3 first rounders picks next year, then CB and DE should be in the mix for first round picks. I agree on the Sweat and Goedert.

27 minutes ago, Traveler Vic said:

I am not sure Barnett is worth the extension. IF we have 3 first rounders picks next year, then CB and DE should be in the mix for first round picks. I agree on the Sweat and Goedert.

I think we probably need an early round DE anyway given Graham and Kerrigan are both mid 30's.

16 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Nothing wrong with that. I just choose to ignore it most of the time lol. 

You @paco and @downundermike do a good job of figuring it out though for people like me who don't want to get involved and dumb it down for us lol. 

So I dont lose it....

 

Before the restructure

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
2016	26	$1,299,000	$5,200,000	$0		$1,299,000		$6,499,000	4.0%
2017	27	$3,000,000	$6,400,000	$0		$3,000,000		$9,400,000	5.3%
2018	28	$3,310,000	$8,038,000	$0		$3,310,000		$11,348,000	6.4%
2019 📝	29	$930,000	$10,972,000	$0		$830,000		$11,902,000	6.0%
2020 📝	30	$4,035,304	$13,079,939	$1,000,000		$1,000,000		$17,115,243	7.7%
2021 📝	31	$15,000,000	$7,879,939	$1,000,000		$1,000,000		$23,879,939	11.6%		$22,034,757	$1,845,182
2022 📝	32	$16,100,000	$6,679,939	$1,000,000		$0		$23,779,939	11.4%		$13,154,818	$10,625,121
2023	33	Void	$5,041,939	Void		Void		$5,041,939	2.2%		$6,474,879	($1,432,940)
2024	34	Void	$1,432,940	Void		Void		$1,432,940	0.6%		$1,432,940	$0

 

After the extension

YEAR		AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING	ROSTER	OPTION	RESTRUCTURE	CAP HIT	DEAD CAP	YEARLY CASH
2016		26	$1,299,000	$5,200,000	-	-	-	$6,499,000	$36,299,000	$27,299,000($27,299,000)
2017		27	$3,000,000	$5,200,000	-	$1,200,000	-	$9,400,000	$49,050,000	$9,000,000($36,299,000)
2018		28	$3,310,000	$5,200,000	-	$1,200,000	$1,638,000	$11,348,000	$47,679,000	$11,500,000($47,799,000)
2019		29	$930,000	$5,200,000	-	$4,134,000	$1,638,000	$11,902,000	$38,852,000	$15,600,000($63,399,000)
2020		30	$4,035,000	$5,200,000	$1,000,000	$4,134,000	$3,746,000	$18,115,000	$39,150,000	$12,200,000($75,599,000)
2021		31	$1,075,000	-	$1,000,000	$4,134,000	$6,531,000	$12,740,000	$37,035,000	$16,000,000($91,599,000)
2022		32	$16,100,000	-	$1,000,000	$2,934,000	$6,531,000	$26,565,000	$24,295,000	$17,100,000($108,699,000)
2023		33	-	-	-	$2,934,000	$4,893,000	$7,827,000	$14,830,000	-
2024		34	-	-	-	-	$4,218,000	$4,218,000	$7,003,000	-
2025		35	-	-	-	-	$2,785,000	$2,785,000	$2,785,000

 

 

TLDR:

2021 cap hit goes down 11,139,939

2022 cap hit goes up 2,785,061, but 13 million rolls over from last year

2023 dead cap hit increases 8,355,121 

14 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Not if the cap skyrockets as most project

The cap is going  to $208 million per team, up $28 million dollars from this year's $180 million. Beyond that the Eagles will free up an additional $34 million in space when the Wentz dead money comes off the ledger.  And whatever they don't spend this year rolls over so you're looking at a potential increase of $70-$75 million dollars in cap space next year.  That's a lot of room to maneuver. Throw in the 2 and hopefully 3 first rounder they have and they set up well.

9 hours ago, Outlaw said:

I can’t speak for everyone but I am not saying Fletch is on Donald’s level. He simply isn’t. Donald is on his own level. But Fletch is definitely in the immediate tier below. 

Donald has 6 consecutive years of All-Pro vs Cox 1 year. Definitely not the same levels

38 minutes ago, paco said:

So I dont lose it....

 

Before the restructure

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
2016	26	$1,299,000	$5,200,000	$0		$1,299,000		$6,499,000	4.0%
2017	27	$3,000,000	$6,400,000	$0		$3,000,000		$9,400,000	5.3%
2018	28	$3,310,000	$8,038,000	$0		$3,310,000		$11,348,000	6.4%
2019 📝	29	$930,000	$10,972,000	$0		$830,000		$11,902,000	6.0%
2020 📝	30	$4,035,304	$13,079,939	$1,000,000		$1,000,000		$17,115,243	7.7%
2021 📝	31	$15,000,000	$7,879,939	$1,000,000		$1,000,000		$23,879,939	11.6%		$22,034,757	$1,845,182
2022 📝	32	$16,100,000	$6,679,939	$1,000,000		$0		$23,779,939	11.4%		$13,154,818	$10,625,121
2023	33	Void	$5,041,939	Void		Void		$5,041,939	2.2%		$6,474,879	($1,432,940)
2024	34	Void	$1,432,940	Void		Void		$1,432,940	0.6%		$1,432,940	$0

 

After the extension

YEAR		AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING	ROSTER	OPTION	RESTRUCTURE	CAP HIT	DEAD CAP	YEARLY CASH
2016		26	$1,299,000	$5,200,000	-	-	-	$6,499,000	$36,299,000	$27,299,000($27,299,000)
2017		27	$3,000,000	$5,200,000	-	$1,200,000	-	$9,400,000	$49,050,000	$9,000,000($36,299,000)
2018		28	$3,310,000	$5,200,000	-	$1,200,000	$1,638,000	$11,348,000	$47,679,000	$11,500,000($47,799,000)
2019		29	$930,000	$5,200,000	-	$4,134,000	$1,638,000	$11,902,000	$38,852,000	$15,600,000($63,399,000)
2020		30	$4,035,000	$5,200,000	$1,000,000	$4,134,000	$3,746,000	$18,115,000	$39,150,000	$12,200,000($75,599,000)
2021		31	$1,075,000	-	$1,000,000	$4,134,000	$6,531,000	$12,740,000	$37,035,000	$16,000,000($91,599,000)
2022		32	$16,100,000	-	$1,000,000	$2,934,000	$6,531,000	$26,565,000	$24,295,000	$17,100,000($108,699,000)
2023		33	-	-	-	$2,934,000	$4,893,000	$7,827,000	$14,830,000	-
2024		34	-	-	-	-	$4,218,000	$4,218,000	$7,003,000	-
2025		35	-	-	-	-	$2,785,000	$2,785,000	$2,785,000

 

 

TLDR:

2021 cap hit goes down 11,139,939

2022 cap hit goes up 2,785,061, but 13 million rolls over from last year

2023 dead cap hit increases 8,355,121 

Looks like both Cox and Johnsons restructures took from 2023 to hell with 2021 and 2022.

1 hour ago, paco said:

2022 cap hit goes up 2,785,061, but 13 million rolls over from last year
2021 cap hit goes down 11,139,939TLDR:

2023 dead cap hit increases 8,355,121 

So assuming the calculations are right, this in fact does kick the can down the road.

See, this is the problem with the "cap genius."  He does this on players that are declining, older or injury prone and then the cap hit is worse when you want to cut them.  

Part of why he had to do this was the bad decision to give a $100m contract to Wentz before he proved he could stay healthy and win a playoff game.  And then he went on to have the worst year of his career.  He had to eat money on the deal, and get a 2nd and a 3rd pick (potential 1st of course) in return when he traded more than that to trade up for Wentz.  This is the "genius" people talk about, a guy making mistakes then being a "genius" for fixing them.

9 minutes ago, NOTW said:

So assuming the calculations are right, this in fact does kick the can down the road.

See, this is the problem with the "cap genius."  He does this on players that are declining, older or injury prone and then the cap hit is worse when you want to cut them.  

Part of why he had to do this was the bad decision to give a $100m contract to Wentz before he proved he could stay healthy and win a playoff game.  And then he went on to have the worst year of his career.  He had to eat money on the deal, and get a 2nd and a 3rd pick (potential 1st of course) in return when he traded more than that to trade up for Wentz.  This is the "genius" people talk about, a guy making mistakes then being a "genius" for fixing them.

I agree but fundamentally the slate is clean next year. The two deals that really hamstrung were Wentz and Jeffrey. 

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

So assuming the calculations are right, this in fact does kick the can down the road.

See, this is the problem with the "cap genius."  He does this on players that are declining, older or injury prone and then the cap hit is worse when you want to cut them.  

Part of why he had to do this was the bad decision to give a $100m contract to Wentz before he proved he could stay healthy and win a playoff game.  And then he went on to have the worst year of his career.  He had to eat money on the deal, and get a 2nd and a 3rd pick (potential 1st of course) in return when he traded more than that to trade up for Wentz.  This is the "genius" people talk about, a guy making mistakes then being a "genius" for fixing them.

This, a million times this, as far as I can see Cox is approaching the end of the road, but now he'll count $14million in dead money in 2023 rather than $5million, and yes every team does some contract jiggery pokery, but there isn't a team in the NFL that does it as often as the Eagles under Howie Roseman or do it because they've drafted so little talent to replace older guys, the Saints are the prime example, they've extended pro bowlers and all pro guys that they've drafted the last five years, we're extending guys we drafted 2 coaches ago.

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I agree but fundamentally the slate is clean next year. The two deals that really hamstrung were Wentz and Jeffrey. 

And Brooks and Johnson are in long term deals and have injury issues and are older now.  

Restructuring and extensions are great when the player is in their prime.  He does it too much with older players on the decline.  And it creates more cap hit in future years, then he has to continue to restructure other people to adjust.  Yes, every team has to do it.  My issue is the guys who are on the decline who get such long contract extensions when it should be a 1-2 year addition so that they're not stuck with them.

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

I agree but fundamentally the slate is clean next year. The two deals that really hamstrung were Wentz and Jeffrey. 

No Lane's deal is probably the ugliest of them all, clear and increasing signs he's on the decline and his dead cap number is $35million dollars next year and double digit millions until 2025.

5 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Cox is approaching the end of the road, but now he'll count $14million in dead money in 2023

That is actually not correct.  That 2023 dead number only counts if he is extended and on the roster.  With the void years, if you are not on the team, all the future void years accelerate to the current year. 

I will use Flacco as the cleanest example to illustrate.  If you look at the structure of the contract, the cap hit is spread out until 2025.  But if you notice the 2022 cap number of 1.94 million, that is a combination of the 2022-2023 prorated bonuses of 485K.  Those 4 cap hits become the 1.94 million 2022 dead cap hit in 2022 if he is not on the roster.

2 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

No Lane's deal is probably the ugliest of them all, clear and increasing signs he's on the decline and his dead cap number is $35million dollars next year and double digit millions until 2025.

The product of too many restructures over the years.  Could end up being in a similar situation with Cox.  

Lane Johnson before and after extension, created more dead money on future years making it harder to release as he continues to decline and get injured.

 

@NOTW let me know if this link works for you.  Been tracking the cap changes since March 4th when everyone was saying we would be fine because we have 73 million cap room in 2022.

The change is quite drastic.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tF3yanEJI265hP5FH6PVCZDmTt5QQxDye3gmz2wRy5s/edit?usp=sharing

27 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

No Lane's deal is probably the ugliest of them all, clear and increasing signs he's on the decline and his dead cap number is $35million dollars next year and double digit millions until 2025.

Ignore the dead money - everyone has it and it exists for a reason.  Focus on cap savings when a player is cut or traded.  In Johnson's case, that's after the '22 season.  But he's only 31 and the Eagles are betting that he'll play at a high level until his mid 30's, which is not an unreasonable position to take. 

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

That is actually not correct.  That 2023 dead number only counts if he is extended and on the roster.  With the void years, if you are not on the team, all the future void years accelerate to the current year. 

I will use Flacco as the cleanest example to illustrate.  If you look at the structure of the contract, the cap hit is spread out until 2025.  But if you notice the 2022 cap number of 1.94 million, that is a combination of the 2022-2023 prorated bonuses of 485K.  Those 4 cap hits become the 1.94 million 2022 dead cap hit in 2022 if he is not on the roster.

To put my post another way if we'd cut him pre June 1st 2023 on his old contract he'd have counted $13million of dead cap, under his restructure if we cut him pre June 2023 he'll count $25million

4 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

To put my post another way if we'd cut him pre June 1st 2023 on his old contract he'd have counted $13million of dead cap, under his restructure if we cut him pre June 2023 he'll count $25million

Yes sir.  Did you see my link above of tracking the cap and changes since March ??

1 minute ago, Hawkeye said:

Ignore the dead money - everyone has it and it exists for a reason.  Focus on cap savings when a player is cut or traded.  In Johnson's case, that's after the '22 season.  But he's only 31 and the Eagles are betting that he'll play at a high level until his mid 30's, which is not an unreasonable position to take. 

It's an optimistic position to take, the games he did play last year he wasn't what he was, first game this season he looked pretty much the same he did last year, hopefully he's knocking off rust from surgery but he's climbing the wrong side of the hill age wise.

14 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Ignore the dead money - everyone has it and it exists for a reason.  Focus on cap savings when a player is cut or traded.  In Johnson's case, that's after the '22 season.  But he's only 31 and the Eagles are betting that he'll play at a high level until his mid 30's, which is not an unreasonable position to take. 

Not a good example.  Johnson, after the 2022 season, saves 3.5 million and leaves a 19.5 million dead cap hit.  Johnson is here through the 2023 season at a minimum.  

Here we go again..  

And I thought I won’t have to hear the cap doomsday scenarios until next year.

All is well. No need to worry.

As long as Mr. Roseman is here, we will bend the numbers as much as we want.

35 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Ignore the dead money - everyone has it and it exists for a reason.  Focus on cap savings when a player is cut or traded.  In Johnson's case, that's after the '22 season.  But he's only 31 and the Eagles are betting that he'll play at a high level until his mid 30's, which is not an unreasonable position to take. 

There are quite a few posts that I want to reply to but I can only sneak this one in right now. 
 

Yes, everyone has dead cap. The question is how much.  When you have 10s of millions in dead cap, that’s cap space that could have been used to sign several depth players or pick up that stud FA to help put you over the top. 
 

Dead cap puts you at an disadvantage.  The question is, how much of an disadvantage 

4 minutes ago, paco said:

There are quite a few posts that I want to reply to but I can only sneak this one in right now. 
 

Yes, everyone has dead cap. The question is how much.  When you have 10s of millions in dead cap, that’s cap space that could have been used to sign several depth players or pick up that stud FA to help put you over the top. 

That 'stud FA' scenario is becoming less and less of an option every year because teams are doing the same things cap wise as the Eagles and are less likely to let those type of players hit the market.

FA is now a place where you either overpay for mediocre talent, get old vets on a 1-2 year deal at a good price, find talent that had bad years sign one year contracts to make themselves more money later on, or unknown talent with the hope of finding a gem.

16 minutes ago, paco said:

There are quite a few posts that I want to reply to but I can only sneak this one in right now. 
 

Yes, everyone has dead cap. The question is how much.  When you have 10s of millions in dead cap, that’s cap space that could have been used to sign several depth players or pick up that stud FA to help put you over the top. 
 

Dead cap puts you at an disadvantage.  The question is, how much of an disadvantage 

And its not just about cap space and dead hit, it is where you rank in cap space.   Currently, Eagles rank 26th in 2022 cap space, and 24th in 2023 cap space.