3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

When Steve young won a SB, he was not a running qb, he was a QB who could run.  When you can play and win from the pocket, but can also run if needed, you are not a running QB.  McNabb and Wilson could play and win from the pocket.

Vick,  was a perfect example of a running qb, and yup, could never get past the team who could take away his run lanes in the playoffs.  Cunningham also in his younger years. Lamar today, Kaepernak, Kyler Murray, RGIII etc.... 

This really isn't debateable- Running qb's will eventually get beaten in the playoffs by a team who can take away their running lanes and force them to stay in the pocket.  History has shown us that.  A running qb will take you only so far, and if he cant learn to win from the pocket, then  he is doomed to a shortlived career.

 

 

It's crazy how much the Hurts backers refuse to acknowledge this. Like....they have no counter to it, at all, but they cling on to it like that fat Kate Winslet at the end of the Titanic. 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Steve Young was not a run first QB. Neither was McNabb by the time he got to the SB. Vick was shut down by our D exactly because they knew he couldn't beat them with his poor football IQ; and Allen to the SB? When did that happen?

Finally, Wilson is also not a run first QB. He buys a lot of time behind a terrible o-line by scrambling around, but he usually ends up throwing the ball instead of running. 

The fact is, no run first QB has won anything of note in the NFL. And it's not taking examples from 30, 40 years ago....there's enough run first guys now (Lamar, our own Hurts, Newton) that show the run first QB has a definitive ceiling, and it's not a Super Bowl winning ceiling. 

 

Thank you!

21 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I'm loving this by the way because I won't ever let this down in the future when this kid is eventually cut or spends his entire time here at the bottom of the depth chart.

Oh the irony is so thick.  This is the same guy that ignored me, and anyone who quoted me for making jokes about Ruben Randle after that debacle.

Fact.  Ruben Randle never played another regular season NFL snap after RTK declared him the second best WR on the Eagles roster.

Fact.  Carson Strong will actually play regular season snaps in the NFL.

@HazletonEagle seeing as you are one of the few, the proud, the, unignored, will you quote this and at the fraud for me.

18 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Amidst all the hyped up additions, I think there are 2 unheralded young vets whose development and utilization are critical to this team taking the next step: Watkins and Milton Williams.

We don’t really know exactly how good Watkins is.  He has flashed some really impressive afterburners and some truly jaw-dropping plays…but is mostly quiet and non-threatening in the regular season.  Watkins could become irrelevant stashed behind Brown, Smith, and Pascal.  Pascal, if used as the #3, is a very slow WR.  Brown and Smith have nice quickness, but neither is a field stretcher or burner.  If Watkins slides into a seldom-used, predictable, token deep threat in an otherwise fairly slow offense, he won’t be dangerous and the offense won’t be hard to defend, even with Brown.  If he still gets his opportunities, the QB sees him, and he shows that juice, then things could have a much different dynamic.

For Williams…despite all the additions on defense, we are still light on edge rushers and light (as are all teams) on interior DL who can penetrate as a 1-gapper.  With apologies to our new 1st round pick Davis, Williams remains the most unique athlete on the defense.  He has a chance to be special and he really showed it in flashes as a rookie too.  But he also has a chance to be a non-threatening edge who can’t bend and a too small DT who can’t anchor.  It’s critical they find creative ways to maximize his talents.

Wasn't the bolded above an issue in 2021? There's not much Watkins can do if he is able to get open but is invisible to the Quarterback.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

The Steelers also took a flier on Myles Boykin who could contribute.  The Eagles took a flier on Devon Allen, who hasn't played an NFL down but does have world class speed.

Give me the Steelers blueprint over Howie wheeling and dealing 10 out of 10 times.

Yes, the Steelers are a top 3 franchise at identifying WR talent. 

The Steelers are a good organization. However, they haven't won a playoff game in 5 years. That's partly due to trusting Big Ben and refusing to tank/rebuild. Steelers fans are just as critical of the team as we are of the Eagles.

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Steve Young is in the top 5 all time in running yardage for a QB, and he sat on the bench behind Montana for four years. Only started 8 seasons. So is he a "running QB?"

McNabb got to the SB, Vick to the championship, Allen to the SB. Wiilson won and lost a SB (lost one by passing instead of running!).

Given the small number of running QBs, that's a pretty good showing.

The difference is all those QBs are much better all around QBs, and unquestionably better passing QBs than Hurts.  Today, the realistic comparisons are Mariota and Lamar.  Mariota is the closest, in my opinion.   Good athlete but not superb, good runner, poor timing, poor anticipation,  poor mechanics, poor vision, and a mediocre arm.  

2 hours ago, RLC said:

1) Look at their cap. It's worse than ours.
2) They want to run the ball. We want to be a passing team. It doesn't make sense to pay a WR 20+M / year and not throw it. That's why Hurts better produce or he's gone.

I disagree with #2. I’ll agree that they want their offense to start with Henry, but they used a 2nd on Brown, traded a 2nd for Jones, traded for Woods and just used a 1st on Burks. The passing game is still important to them. 

It's very unlikely that Strong plays this year. But to think it's a 0 percent chance is foolish. Not surprising that it's RTK pounding this. Guy will openly root against Strong, even if he turns out to be a better QB than anybody on the roster now. He very well may not do anything, but it's so strange to openly root against him. 

Most of us want Hurts to be good....but we've seen enough to know he won't. We still want him to succeed as it means the best for the team. RTK is a fake fan. 

18 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Allen to the SB.

Who ??

23 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Never say never. Kurt Warner was 3rd on the Ram depth chart.

He was signed by the Green Bay Packers in 1994, but released before the regular season and instead played three seasons for the Iowa Barnstormers of the Arena Football League (AFL). In December 1997 after the St. Louis Rams' season ended, Warner signed a futures contract with the team. In February 1998, he was allocated to NFL Europe to play for the Amsterdam Admirals, where he led the league in touchdowns and passing yards.His backup at the time was future Carolina Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme.

Warner landed his first NFL roster spot in 1998 with the Rams. The Rams let Bono leave in free agency and signed Trent Green to be the starter. Banks was traded to the Ravens, and Warner now found himself second on the depth chart. After Green suffered a torn ACL via a low hit by Rodney Harrison in a preseason game, Rams coach Dick Vermeil named Warner as the Rams' starter. During his first season as an NFL starting quarterback, Warner led The Greatest Show on Turf offense to the Rams' first Super Bowl title in Super Bowl XXXIV, earning him league and Super Bowl MVP honors. He won his second league MVP award in 2001, en route to a Super Bowl XXXVI appearance, and also appeared in Super Bowl XLIII with the Cardinals.

 

Yes so Kurt Warner bounced around a lot, wasn't a rookie.  He was the primary backup on a team where the starting QB went down and got injured. 

Carson Strong is not the primary backup.  He will be fighting for a roster spot as the 3rd QB if the Eagles keep 3 QBs.  Probably much more likely for the practice squad.  If Hurts gets injured this year the Eagles will go with Minshew. If the Eagles move on from Hurts after this season they won't just sit there and try their luck with an undrafted QB heading into his 2nd year on a knee they will never be able to rely on. 

10 minutes ago, justrelax said:

None of the four ways seems to be passing, however. You just said it yourself.

He has to pass better, that's the bottom line. Doesn't have to throw lasers, just improve mechanics, anticipation, accuracy, and be more efficient.

He doesn't have to be an elite passer, that's the edge that running provides. Just make the plays he needs to make.

But if he can't threaten a team with the pass, the running has less value - like I said, they complement each other.

I'll withhold judgement until we see him this year, in my experience, players with off the wall work ethics are the most likely to make significant jumps early in their career.

 

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Who is forgetting?  He made some doozies.  Only afan and his clones are perpetually defending Howie.

My argument is that the mistakes were made when he was in "keep-the-window-open" mode. 

Now he is in pure team building, a process his appears to be much more comfortable with.

Yep. That's what I've always said too. 

21 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Get the feeling that the Eagles will trade for a safety that no one saw coming.

Jessie Bates, if only we had the money.

Other options

• Julian Blackmon. He's off a torn achilles, they signed Rodney McLeod and drafted Cross in RD3.
• Andre Cisco. Not a perfect fit in Jacksonville's new defense and drafted by Urban Meyer.
• Terrell Burgess. Hasn't panned out, and the Rams are always aggressive in trades.

19 minutes ago, Utebird said:

No one has anointed him, you're the only one dealing in absolutes.

Every body else including me is making projections based on his arm talent.

That you are stubbornly sticking to your opinion as an Absolute fact isn't a Surprise.

 

 

 

You need to realize if you think there is any chance he earns the stating job this year or next that you are completely detached from reality.  This blog is not filled with knowledge people.  No one outside of this blog is even discussing the potential for Strong to become the starting QB here because it isn't even a remote possibility.  It is in no way whatsoever any intention of the Eagles. 

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No they are not.  You're making things up.  

PM H.E.  He lives in Steeler country.  He'll tell ya.  

Spend 5 minutes on Steelers Twitter and it's quite the lunatic fanbase. 

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Yes so Kurt Warner bounced around a lot, wasn't a rookie.  He was the primary backup on a team where the starting QB went down and got injured. 

Carson Strong is not the primary backup.  He will be fighting for a roster spot as the 3rd QB if the Eagles keep 3 QBs.  Probably much more likely for the practice squad.  If Hurts gets injured this year the Eagles will go with Minshew. If the Eagles move on from Hurts after this season they won't just sit there and try their luck with an undrafted QB heading into his 2nd year on a knee they will never be able to rely on. 

We won't know how this story ends until next year's draft.

Should we table the discussion until then?

For all the Steve Young is a running QB dummies.  The year he won the Super Bowl he led the league in 

Completion percentage, passing TD's, yards per attempt, air yards per attempt and QB rating.  He threw for almost 4000 yards in a league that still allowed you to play defense.  

He only ran for 293 yards.  That is 18.3 yards per game.

Steve Young won the MVP and Super Bowl with his arm, not his legs.

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

You need to realize if you think there is any chance he earns the stating job this year or next that you are completely detached from reality.  This blog is not filled with knowledge people.  No one outside of this blog is even discussing the potential for Strong to become the starting QB here because it isn't even a remote possibility.  It is in no way whatsoever any intention of the Eagles. 

Desperation is a stinky cologne. 

21 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

How far was Tom Brady from being an UFA? 2 rounds? Tony Romo - yes he was the 'enemy' but he was a better QB than our current QB1and he was a UFA. Kurt Warner is another example. I just hope the Eagles - unlike you - don't view Hurts as The Anointed One. Give everybody a reasonable look in camp. If Hurts is easily the best passer in preseason, so much the better. Hurts is going to start in all likelihood but if this year is a near repeat of last, maybe consider trying one of the alternatives.

 

None of these players were rookies. 

The Eagles didn't trade one of their firsts this year for a first next year so that they could role with an undrafted QB as their QB in 2023 if Hurts isn't the guy.  The Eagles are gearing towards contending.  If they do not go with Hurts in 2023 then it will be a top level prospect they target in the first round of next year's draft.  Carson Strong will never factor into the equation for the Eagles at starting QB this year or next. 

Just now, downundermike said:

For all the Steve Young is a running QB dummies.  The year he won the Super Bowl he led the league in 

Completion percentage, passing TD's, yards per attempt, air yards per attempt and QB rating.  He threw for almost 4000 yards in a league that still allowed you to play defense.  

He only ran for 293 yards.  That is 18.3 yards per game.

Steve Young won the MVP and Super Bowl with his arm, not his legs.

There's only one, lol

2 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

We won't know how this story ends until next year's draft.

Should we table the discussion until then?

 

There is no legitimate discussion.  Just Prue fantasy from people who are making fools of themselves over a scenario that is not even close to realistic. 

12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Steve Young was not a run first QB. Neither was McNabb by the time he got to the SB. Vick was shut down by our D exactly because they knew he couldn't beat them with his poor football IQ; and Allen to the SB? When did that happen?

Finally, Wilson is also not a run first QB. He buys a lot of time behind a terrible o-line by scrambling around, but he usually ends up throwing the ball instead of running. 

The fact is, no run first QB has won anything of note in the NFL. And it's not taking examples from 30, 40 years ago....there's enough run first guys now (Lamar, our own Hurts, Newton) that show the run first QB has a definitive ceiling, and it's not a Super Bowl winning ceiling. 

 

By that definition, there are almost zero "run first" QBs in the history of the NFL. Since you just excluded the QB rushing leaders other than Vick.

McNabb didn't stop running until after 2005, the difference, same with Young, etc., is as he matured, he became a better passer and choose his opportunities to run.

But the first few seasons, all these guys ran a lot. As they get experience (and better skill players around them) they pass more and are more selective when they run.

We saw this with Vick under Reid, if Vick had Reid earlier in his career he might have become an elite QB.

Hurts will make this transition or his career will flatline. He knows it, Sirianni knows it, Johnson knows it. But it won't mean he won't run, he'll just be more selective.

 

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For all the Steve Young is a running QB dummies.  The year he won the Super Bowl he led the league in 

Completion percentage, passing TD's, yards per attempt, air yards per attempt and QB rating.  He threw for almost 4000 yards in a league that still allowed you to play defense.  

He only ran for 293 yards.  That is 18.3 yards per game.

Steve Young won the MVP and Super Bowl with his arm, not his legs.

You mean the guy with the average arm? Who struggled in TB? 2nd season (25 years old), 53.7%, 8-13, QB rating 65.5. Then sat on the bench for 4 years in SF.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

By that definition, there are almost zero "run first" QBs in the history of the NFL.

Correct.  They can run, but they would rather succeed with their arm.  

The glaring omission from you, is guys like Steve Young succeeded because they could read an NFL defense and make NFL throws.

I just pointed it out, see below.

 

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For all the Steve Young is a running QB dummies.  The year he won the Super Bowl he led the league in 

Completion percentage, passing TD's, yards per attempt, air yards per attempt and QB rating.  He threw for almost 4000 yards in a league that still allowed you to play defense.  

He only ran for 293 yards.  That is 18.3 yards per game.

Steve Young won the MVP and Super Bowl with his arm, not his legs.