2 hours ago, austinfan said:

Hurts can impact defenses four ways,

1) the threat to run, especially the RPO or option, freezes the DE on run plays, helping the run game. DEs crashing down the LOS can make a lot of TFLs.

2) the threat to scramble/roll out causes teams to mush rush and/or use a spy.

3) the ability to buy time when protection breaks down, but this requires WRs who know how to run a scramble drill

4) running the ball on pass plays, whether QB draws or seeing open lanes against man defenses (open space) and picking up easy 1st downs

Running can't substitute for passing, rather, they're complementary. Hurts has to up his passing game, but he doesn't have to be elite, b/c his running adds significant value, if he's a top ten passer, he's a top five QB. Hitting those throws down the seam keeps the defense from crowding the LOS, running forces the defense to play it safe.

So, Hurts can't impact the defense in anyway through the passing game?  

 

A QB running is not complementary to a QB passing, which is why since the forward pass was added to the game, the passing game has grown and grown and grown... and QBs have gotten better and better... and the rules have changed to benefit the passing game.   Being able to run (Allen) is diametrically opposed to the QBs that have to run (Hurts, Jackson, Tebow) to be successful.  

4 minutes ago, Godfather said:

I'll take both sisters and the mom. That's right. I'm greedy

That's not greedy, it's practical.  Gotta have one making sandwiches, one mixing drinks, and one doing laundry afterwards.

10 minutes ago, Infam said:

I know many will disagree, but there are good safeties every draft - especially in the second round.

But a monster DL like Davis? And as the top DT he is available at 13?

I think even if you ignore positional value it’s just a rare opportunity for someone with special traits.

Easy for me to say as I wanted Davis much more than Hamilton, but I think there is a fast, ball hawk safety waiting for us next year.

Waiting on Howie to pass on him in order to take a OT that will back up Lane Johnson for 2 seasons.  

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Our of curiosity, after seeing how the picks played out, how do we feel about trading pick 16 to the Saints for 101/2023 1/2024 2?

Was there anyone available at that pick that changes your thoughts? I’d say the popular name is Jermaine Johnson, but considering how far he ended up falling he ended up not being as highly thought of as we were led to believe. 

I rather have those picks then who was there. I like Johnson but i wouldn’t have been  surprised if they got stuck at 15 and Davis went off the board to the ravens if they pick was Trent mcduffie or Johnson. Actually listened to inside the birds they talked about why Johnson was going to fall and did. And how if the eagles didn’t move up they wouldn’t have gotten Davis and mcduffie was a guy they really liked so it could’ve very well been him at 15 and not Hamilton like people would’ve pined for 

that said, i don’t think the saints are going to be as bad as others think. I’m guessing anywhere from 7 to 9 wins even with that schedule. It comes down to if Dennis Allen is just a bad coach, how long kamara gets suspended and if Penning can play at a decent level at LT. Their schedule doesn’t help. it’s why i think they wind up picking next year from 10-20 range. But heading into the draft their 3 biggest questions on the roster were LT, WR and S. Armstead left a big hole. They drafted penning who’s not as good as Armstead but he is likely better in terms of upside than anyone out in FA besides possibly Duane Brown. They actually upgraded their WR position as they got olave to go with Michael Thomas. Olave is instantly better than anyone on that roster at the position last year (Thomas didn’t play). If they sign mathieu would argue he’s an upgrade to jenkins last year. If Maye is healthy then he and mathieu might be as good as jenkins and Williams last year. Winston is a significant upgrade to what siemian and hill were. I just don’t see them bottoming out. Likely getting the pick somewhere between 10-20 and I’d bet around 13-17 range

Just now, NCiggles said:

Waiting on Howie to pass on him in order to take a OT that will back up Lane Johnson for 2 seasons.  

Sounds about right. Maybe we get lucky and a first round safety falls to the third.

38 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Not a chance. There’s a move coming. You don’t go from offering a huge contract to Marcus Williams to doing absolutely nothing.

Dillard for Jesse Bates confirmed. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

By that definition, there are almost zero "run first" QBs in the history of the NFL. Since you just excluded the QB rushing leaders other than Vick.

McNabb didn't stop running until after 2005, the difference, same with Young, etc., is as he matured, he became a better passer and choose his opportunities to run.

But the first few seasons, all these guys ran a lot. As they get experience (and better skill players around them) they pass more and are more selective when they run.

We saw this with Vick under Reid, if Vick had Reid earlier in his career he might have become an elite QB.

Hurts will make this transition or his career will flatline. He knows it, Sirianni knows it, Johnson knows it. But it won't mean he won't run, he'll just be more selective.

I really think most the younger folks on here don’t remember early Steve Young.  You know, USFL Steve Young (played his first two years as a pro with the LA Express) or Tampa Bay Creamsicle Steve Young.  They don’t even remember the Steve Young that rode the pine behind Steve Montana. Now Young wasn’t a "run first” QB.  But neither is Hurts.

A run first QB for me is the QBs from Royal’s Wishbone, Yeoman’s Veer, Osborne’s Option I and even the Winged T.  About the only "run first” QBs left are Army’s.  What we have now are a bunch of RO (modified and I would argue lesser version of the Run n Shoot) and RPO QBs in college. They run. Willis ran, Howell ran.   Teams are modifying their offenses in the NFL to address the talent available from college and the modifications in NFL rules. (Also the defenses to figure out what to do with the Uber athlete college DEs that weigh in the 225-250 range but that’s for another post.)

Now where we differ is that Hurts looked last year like Hurts at Alabama and OU.  Still a lot of one read and run.  He is quick to abandon the pocket and the pass on called pass plays and rely on his legs.  You are right that McNabb had to unlearn that.  That’s not run first.  That’s run too quickly, leave the pocket too early. But take Wilson, Mahommes and Rodgers, all QBs that are willing to use their running abilities. They extend plays. They can play in small pockets, they can move the pocket.  Hurts crouches like a RB and quits looking downfield way too much. He doesn’t know how to use a small pocket and falters moving the pocket. He doesn’t seem to trust his pass protection.

Now part of that may mean growth. Mahommes sat his first year.  Young and Rodgers sat through their first contracts. But that crouch, the late trigger, all lead to the belief that Hurts is a bad passer or a "run first” QB. Bad terminology.  Hurts is a bad processor of what is there in the passing game and relies on his legs too much.  You can see that in his time between snap and release on passes. Now, I am sure you can load me down with stats on QBs that had poor starts to their careers and I would agree that is an accurate observation for many.  (Heck, look at Love in relief of Rodgers, Lance in relief of Jimmy G.).  You are ever the optimist about his potential.  Maybe a bit to much.  Take off the green colored glasses. There has to be a happy medium between Marty ball and having the QB being the leading rusher. 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

SC will struggle.  They are not a very talented team.  They got completely ripped apart by my Vols last year.  And Tennessee will only be better this year.  Florida will be better.  Rivalry games are always tough when it's a real rivalry...but not when it comes to SC and Clemson.  It's not really close.  

I believe that's an underrated rivalry game. Both teams always look forward to that one. SC will also be better. They received the 22nd best recruiting class this upcoming year. Shane Beamer has this team going in the right direction. Not sure what they did in the portal outside of Rattler tho

1 minute ago, Infam said:

Sounds about right. Maybe we get lucky and a first round safety falls to the third.

I really think the eagles go after a safety in FA next year. Their MO since jarrett and Nate Allen didn’t pan out as high round picks is invest at the position in FA. Even this year they went for Marcus Williams and missed out. Doubt all these guys make it to FA but some will: bates, adderley, thornhill, Rapp, Derwin James, Fitzpatrick, Amos, savage (club option), poyer and bell are all scheduled to be FA at the moment. 

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

That's not greedy, it's practical.  Gotta have one making sandwiches, one mixing drinks, and one doing laundry afterwards.

I need one riding the d and the other 2 licking the sack

20 minutes ago, Infam said:

I know many will disagree, but there are good safeties every draft - especially in the second round.

But a monster DL like Davis? And as the top DT he is available at 13?

I think even if you ignore positional value it’s just a rare opportunity for someone with special traits.

Easy for me to say as I wanted Davis much more than Hamilton, but I think there is a fast, ball hawk safety waiting for us next year.

And Howie won't have the picks because he'll trade up for a QB or he'll draft another lineman.

1 minute ago, Godfather said:

I need one riding the d and the other 2 licking the sack

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

He went from one of the best teams in a bad conference(and didn't do well) and now he's going to be one of the worst teams in the best conference. 

There was a small conversation in here when he transferred. not a good career choice to go to SEC. 

OU was not a good team. They benefited playing in a ish conference. Big 12 isn't what it use to be.

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

They have been ranked in the top 10, consistently the last decade or so.  Big 12 isn't great, but they have been good.  For a long time. 

This is true. I'm saying they weren't a good team last year. They were ranked way to high in the preseason because of what everyone thought Rattler could be and how he could help the offense put up points in bunches. Seemed like every year under Riley everyone was talking about how bad/mediocre that defense was

For the running adds value crowd, and don't forget Hurts running in regards to his stats.

Hurts had 3928 total yards last year.

11 QB's had more passing yards last year.  Matt Ryan, in an anemic Falcons offense passed for 40 more yards than Hurts total offense.

Hurts was 16th in total offense.  The sad part about that, is a plus 40 QB passed for 1400 more yards than Hurts ran and passed for.

 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

they were a good team. "ok teams" dont go 11-2 in a major conference.

Yes, the ACC/pac 12/big 12 are the "others" out side the big 10 and SEC. 

Also, Oklahoma boat races South Carolina. last year and this year

Outside Iowa State, what good team did they beat during the regular season that impressed you?

 

18 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I really think most the younger folks on here don’t remember early Steve Young.  You know, USFL Steve Young (played his first two years as a pro with the LA Express) or Tampa Bay Creamsicle Steve Young.  They don’t even remember the Steve Young that rode the pine behind Steve Montana. Now Young wasn’t a "run first” QB.  But neither is Hurts.

A run first QB for me is the QBs from Royal’s Wishbone, Yeoman’s Veer, Osborne’s Option I and even the Winged T.  About the only "run first” QBs left are Army’s.  What we have now are a bunch of RO (modified and I would argue lesser version of the Run n Shoot) and RPO QBs in college. They run. Willis ran, Howell ran.   Teams are modifying their offenses in the NFL to address the talent available from college and the modifications in NFL rules. (Also the defenses to figure out what to do with the Uber athlete college DEs that weigh in the 225-250 range but that’s for another post.)

Now where we differ is that Hurts looked last year like Hurts at Alabama and OU.  Still a lot of one read and run.  He is quick to abandon the pocket and the pass on called pass plays and rely on his legs.  You are right that McNabb had to unlearn that.  That’s not run first.  That’s run too quickly, leave the pocket too early. But take Wilson, Mahommes and Rodgers, all QBs that are willing to use their running abilities. They extend plays. They can play in small pockets, they can move the pocket.  Hurts crouches like a RB and quits looking downfield way too much. He doesn’t know how to use a small pocket and falters moving the pocket. He doesn’t seem to trust his pass protection.

Now part of that may mean growth. Mahommes sat his first year.  Young and Rodgers sat through their first contracts. But that crouch, the late trigger, all lead to the belief that Hurts is a bad passer or a "run first” QB. Bad terminology.  Hurts is a bad processor of what is there in the passing game and relies on his legs too much.  You can see that in his time between snap and release on passes. Now, I am sure you can load me down with stats on QBs that had poor starts to their careers and I would agree that is an accurate observation for many.  (Heck, look at Love in relief of Rodgers, Lance in relief of Jimmy G.).  You are ever the optimist about his potential.  Maybe a bit to much.  Take off the green colored glasses. There has to be a happy medium between Marty ball and having the QB being the leading rusher. 

I agree with this 100%.  I would point out that Hurts doesn't lack for college experience in the passing game.  

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Matt Ryan, in an anemic Falcons offense passed for 40 more yards than Hurts total offense.

Nice job comparing a qb who played 17 games to one who played 15.

37 minutes ago, Godfather said:

He's the QB . . . for now.

FYP

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

 you can only play who's in front of you, and you dont get 11 wins as an average team. 

You're acting like OU was Delaware state. Or a Duke.

At the end of the day, again, for the 7th or 8th year in a row they started as a top 10 team and ended as a top ten 10. 

there's about 110+ that wouldn't "want to be that good"

What I ment to say was which games did they play that they looked like a good team to you?  There's only 2 or 3 that stand out to me. They were an average team that was overhyped last year. I won't use the term bad. There

44 minutes ago, Godfather said:

He's the QB this year

 

And if he isn't next the QB's will be investing in either a QB they trade up for in the first of next year's draft or trading for someone like Lamar Jackson.  Carson Strong will at no point factor into their plans for starting QB. 

Rumors from Baltimore fans on Reddit of a possible Reagor & mid-to-late rounder for Chuck Clark. Do it Howie.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

And if he isn't next the QB's will be investing in either a QB they trade up for in the first of next year's draft or trading for someone like Lamar Jackson.  Carson Strong will at no point factor into their plans for starting QB. 

Strong has a better chance to be the starting qb here then Jackson. Why move on from Hurts to get a slightly better version of him? 

The jubilation continues. Congrats @downundermike! You’ve found your QB to supplant Hurts.

Not to rain on anyone’s parade, I will say that, with someone with Strong’s arm talent, QBs with that talent in a wheelchair should still have been drafted. The league is desperate for QBs and the fact that Strong was scrutinized (I.e., didn’t slip through the cracks) and nobody drafted him is probably very telling.

And there are reports of his pre-draft interviews that aren’t very flattering.

In any event, LET THE CELEBRATION CONTINUE

2 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Rumors from Baltimore fans on Reddit of a possible deal of Reagor & mid-to-late rounder for Chuck Clark. Do it Howie.

Oh wow, so maybe the fake wiki was right after all.

I think Clark can help us. Clark + Epps isn’t quite Hamilton + Williams, but at least it’s something.