43 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I see them as still an 8 or 9 win team. I think they lose that broncos game but also win that giants game in the meadowlands (reagor sucked but it wasn’t just him prior to his drops). 

Yep. There would've been games where Minshew looked just as hopeless as Hurts did in some games. Both have major limitations; Hurts' will be extremely tough to overcome, Minshew's will be virtually impossible.

7 minutes ago, roadagain65 said:

 

There's truth to this but Hurts has shown glimpses of being able to read D's & make good throws so what is the harm in rolling with him for another season just in case he can make the grade? There's little downside in sticking with Hurts for another 12 months.

The Eagles have the picks to set this team up nicely for the next 10 years & can address QB next offseason if Hurts doesnt improve enough in 2022. 

With what? You’re giving up the ammo you have.

And now you are trying to address QB, along with most teams trying to address QB this year, along with more teams like Falcons, Lions, Vikings, Giants etc that will be looking to address QB as well. 

With Herbig a RFA and Anderson a questionable C, I won’t be surprised to see the Eagles possibly draft a C given that Kelce, even though his return looks likely, probably doesn’t go next year.  Matt Alkire has an interesting piece on centers.  https://jetrolot.com/talking-centers/  On day 3 he is looking at some I have been checking out lately and some I need to go see some games on.  One that caught my eye that he mentions is Wattenberg.  I think he needs more strength but the core is there.  Eagles know better than we do how Seumalo is faring on that foot injury.  That may factor into what they do.  Day three is always BPA but there are some Day 3 Cs that might have potential. 

1 hour ago, schuy7 said:

How many times in the NFL has a QB with Hurts' ability improved significantly as a passer? It doesn't really happen. It's a huge leap that he has to make and it's not one that happens by just working hard. 

Are you old enough to remember Gannon?  You are too young to remember Warren Moon, although passing wasn’t the issue as much as accuracy and brain farts.  Jeff Garcia when he went north?  Now for every QB that improved as they got experience like that, there are fifty that washed out.  Never say never but always remain skeptical. 

49 minutes ago, roadagain65 said:

 

There's truth to this but Hurts has shown glimpses of being able to read D's & make good throws so what is the harm in rolling with him for another season just in case he can make the grade? There's little downside in sticking with Hurts for another 12 months.

The Eagles have the picks to set this team up nicely for the next 10 years & can address QB next offseason if Hurts doesnt improve enough in 2022. 

Or they go with Minshew for the season who will help Smith and the other receivers develop more and get a QB in 2023 draft

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Or they go with Minshew for the season who will help Smith and the other receivers develop more and get a QB in 2023 draft

Me thinks you grossly overestimate Mishew. Great 'tashe but if he was as good as you think, he'd have cost a lot more than a 6th rd pick to obtain.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Me thinks you grossly overestimate Mishew. Great 'tashe but if he was as good as you think, he'd have cost a lot more than a 6th rd pick to obtain.

We just need a serviceable passer and that's what he is. I don't think he'll get us to the playoffs but he'll get the ball to the receivers

Agreed. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-quarterback-rankings

PFF has Hurts at 11th overall.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/qb/2021?check_logged_in=1

FO has Hurts 17th as a passer, ahead of Tua, Ryan, Goff, Jackson, Heinicke, Mayfield, Big Ben, Mills, D Jones. Tannehill, Huntley, Dalton, Brissett, Fields, Lawrence, Darnold, Wilson. Hurts was also the best runner of all QBs, with Allen 2nd, pushing him past Wentz to 16th in overall value.

Hurts was 20th in QBR.

Given it was his first year as a starter, you could do much worse.

Here's where he sits with his peers in the NFL with basic stats.

Passing Yards - 21st

Passing TDs - 23rd

Yards Per Pass Attempt - 14th

Completion Percentage - 26th

Passing Yards per game - 26th

Rating - 22nd

QBR - 19th

He did all of this with a top 5 OL and with one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Of course you could do much worse, but you can also do significantly better than a sub 20th ranked QB.

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Agreed. 

Speaking of backs , I just watched some of Pierre Strong , I like  ,

my 3 favorites still would be 

Brooks , White and Smith 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 Curious to see what the answers would be, but if the Eagles started Gardner Minshew last year ( the entire year) how many wins do you think the Eagles have?

At least 8, at most 10... most likely 9.

34 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Me thinks you grossly overestimate Mishew. Great 'tashe but if he was as good as you think, he'd have cost a lot more than a 6th rd pick to obtain.

Awesome, let's compare.

Through their first two seasons, Hurts and Minshew had nearly the same amount of starts (Hurts 19 to Minshew's 20). 

Taking into account both passing and running, while close,  Minshew has more yards and TDs. His completion percentage is higher. He had more fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives. Even if Hurts has a GWD and multiple touchdowns in his next start, at best he will tie Minshew (or slightly pass) him in TDs. He can't tie or surpass him in the others.

Me thinks if Hurts was as good as he is claimed to be, he'd have better numbers than someone only worth a 6th round pick.

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Awesome, let's compare.

Through their first two seasons, Hurts and Minshew had nearly the same amount of starts (Hurts 19 to Minshew's 20). 

Taking into account both passing and running, while close,  Minshew has more yards and TDs. His completion percentage is higher. He had more fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives. 

Me thinks if Hurts was as good as he is claimed to be, he'd have better numbers than someone only worth a 6th round pick.

I’d argue if you out hurts on the last two jags teams they are likely a 3-5 win team. We thought the 2020 eagles were bad. The jags from 2020 and 2021 talent wise have been worse than that 2020 eagles team. Heck even that 2019 team I’m guessing he has around the 6 wins that jags team had. I don’t think minshew is the answer either. But definitively played on a worse team than the eagles in his time in Jacksonville.  

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d argue if you out hurts on the last two jags teams they are likely a 3-5 win team. We thought the 2020 eagles were bad. The jags from 2020 and 2021 talent wise have been worse than that 2020 eagles team. Heck even that 2019 team I’m guessing he has around the 6 wins that jags team had. I don’t think minshew is the answer either. But definitively played on a worse team than the eagles in his time in Jacksonville.  

Yep.

I'm guessing he'll ignore it.

28 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Speaking of backs , I just watched some of Pierre Strong , I like  ,

my 3 favorites still would be 

Brooks , White and Smith 

White? Rachaad or Zamir?

Went just a smidge unrealistic on the trade downs but hoo boy what a haul. 

35 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Speaking of backs , I just watched some of Pierre Strong , I like  ,

my 3 favorites still would be 

Brooks , White and Smith 

Assume you are talking Day 3, UFDA prospects.

Not sure that Strong sees the hole that well.  Seems like a back that is used to being the best athlete on the field and will try to break it outside too much.  Seems Gainwell size.  Now seeing Jackrabbit games is pretty hard so I didn’t see much of him  (side note: My dad attended SDSU for a semester before he could enlist. Bigger than USD)  

I like Brook later day 3.  Follows his blockers well and does seem to find the hole. Concern with him is he doesn’t seem to have burst.  Pretty one gear. Not much of a threat in the passing game.  

I like White but his pass pro is a bit suspect and not sure he is much of a receiving threat.  That and those two ACLs have to be a cause for concern.  Not sure he is big enough for that larger back role.  Afraid with him you get a Sanders type clone and injury wise the two of them make one back.

Like Smith’s size but not a huge body of work for him.  One twitch RB.  Duce like. For a big guy he can get skinny in the hole but I don’t see a second gear.  His pass running may be more suspect than Blount’s was but he is green at RB.  Wonder how he would function in platooning.  Might be a good late round gamble.  

 

18 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

White? Rachaad or Zamir?

Rachaad 

@BigEFlywhite may be best receiving back in draft 

7 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Rachaad 

I assumed Zamir.  Rachaad looks skinny to me.  Seems like Gainwell 2.0.  Not really fitting what the Eagles need at RB but might fit as a 3rd down back for your Bucs.

Rachaad is a good one , he is a 3 down back  , very talented back . 

40 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Awesome, let's compare.

Through their first two seasons, Hurts and Minshew had nearly the same amount of starts (Hurts 19 to Minshew's 20). 

Taking into account both passing and running, while close,  Minshew has more yards and TDs. His completion percentage is higher. He had more fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives. Even if Hurts has a GWD and multiple touchdowns in his next start, at best he will tie Minshew (or slightly pass) him in TDs. He can't tie or surpass him in the others.

Me thinks if Hurts was as good as he is claimed to be, he'd have better numbers than someone only worth a 6th round pick.

I go Monty Brewster here.  "None of the above.”  I think Minshew marginally helps the offense grow since hes a bit better passer. But I think at the end of the day, this is another chocolate/vanilla situation. You might have a preference, but you are still eating ice cream. Neither is a molten chocolate cake. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Me thinks you grossly overestimate Mishew. Great 'tashe but if he was as good as you think, he'd have cost a lot more than a 6th rd pick to obtain.

He’s good enough to get the WRs involved in the game and for them to develop. No, he’s not good enough for the team to go anywhere.

That’s better than Hurts.

The Eagles are in QB purgatory. They aren’t bad enough to get a top pick next year, they aren’t good enough to seriously compete in the post season either. They have the picks now to get out of it. "Building the team” and "sticking with Hurts” should be the dead last options because you weren’t able to pull the trigger in acquiring a proven commodity. 
 

And I’m tired of the "next years class will be great!” narrative. This time last year the talk was how this was going to be a stacked draft class and Spencer Rattler was the flavor of the month. Even if Stroud or Young turn out to be good prospects, pick #15 - #20 isn’t going to be enough to jump other teams. 

15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The Eagles are in QB purgatory. They aren’t bad enough to get a top pick next year, they aren’t good enough to seriously compete in the post season either. They have the picks now to get out of it. "Building the team” and "sticking with Hurts” should be the dead last options because you weren’t able to pull the trigger in acquiring a proven commodity. 
 

And I’m tired of the "next years class will be great!” narrative. This time last year the talk was how this was going to be a stacked draft class and Spencer Rattler was the flavor of the month. Even if Stroud or Young turn out to be good prospects, pick #15 - #20 isn’t going to be enough to jump other teams. 

Yeah I’ve been saying this for months now. I don’t think they have to go get a quarterback at any cost. But if there is a quarterback out there that you believe is going to be a franchise quarterback and you love then you better go do it and not just think we can wait til next year. 

You might not have the assets next year to move up to get the quarterback in a draft (see Zach Wilson this year), in the trade market a team could have better assets for the same player and you lose out. there might not be a quarterback you love next year in the free agent/trade market or draft. Heck for all we know we can get to next year and that quarterback draft class reminds people of this one even though we think it’s gonna be better now.

I haven’t even touched on if they use these picks defensively and they aren’t hits, then you still have to build up the defense and you’re not gonna want to give up picks next year either to get a QB. 

Again my belief has always been don’t just go get a quarterback because you want a quarterback this offseason. If you actually covet and love one whether it be the trade market, free agency or the draft in this off-season then you better go get it. You might not have the requisite assets to get the guy next year or might not be someone you love and you get stuck in a QB purgatory