20 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Lamar has an arm but has a long way to go to be an effective passer.  I do think he's improved.  I think the question is whether he can stay healthy and improve enough to just rely on his arm.  I think the odds are against that happening.  It's just as likely he never gets to the level of play he reached in his second season.  

I don't disagree.  He does have the arm talent, but he's yet to connect the arm talent to consistently good QB play, specifically from the pocket.  He's definitely not a guy that can be in the top tier of that ranking as a QB.  At best, he's in the 'prospect' ranking because we are still discussing what he can improve on in the passing game.  The NFL is a passing league and has been for quite some time.  Until the QB can pass to win games, they aren't in the tier of "good QB" for me.  

 

His level of play in his second season wasn't even about his passing, it was all set up by his running.  He had over 1200 yards rushing on almost 180 carries.  That's an insane number of rushes over the course of a season for a QB.  He had a nice completion percentage and nice TD-INT ratio, but it was all because teams were worried about his rushing.  Then he got to the playoffs, and it came crashing down like a house of cards, as it always does for rushing QBs.  He had an easier time in 2020 in the playoffs for the first game, because they played in the WC weekend, instead of having the bye for 2019. But, it's just not sustainable.

 

For reference... https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-rushing-attempts-by-a-quarterback-in-a-season

(and for the sake of discussion, his per game rushes in 2021 were right on pace with the 2019 season, but missed games due to injury) 

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think it was more than his play.  Some reporters have pointed out that his failure to get vaccinated was viewed as a leadership issue by his coaches. The locker room problems the relate to his failure to take accountability also cropped up again.  

There is definitely something off with Wentz  , personally I think he is done  . Not sure what Rivera was thinking , this move will get him fired .

11 minutes ago, greend said:

So that would be three teams in three years. 2020 Eagles, 2021 Colts, 2022 Commanders. 

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

That's a good question but I think the answer depends on how good his arm is. I think the mistake is giving a big payday to an unproven passer that relies on his legs.  

I was thinking duration more than anything honestly. Whether he's an accomplisher passer or not (although I doubt an accomplished passer would be looking to run all the time.

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

There is definitely something off with Wentz  , personally I think he is done  . Not sure what Rivera was thinking , this move will get him fired .

I think he's a clear upgrade over what they had...he just won't be good enough to take them anywhere is all. 

47 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

They put Dak in the top tier even after he put up identical numbers to Hurts in his playoff game 

The star on the helmet covers up a lot of deficiencies in the eyes of many.

1 hour ago, Infam said:

I don’t think that’s true. Kirk is a really good slot with good numbers for a #3.

He’s a No. 3. You said it yourself. 

Chark is a 2. 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Not only always fails in the playoffs, but never stays healthy in philly.  Ever.  

They have a better team than the Eagles....right now.  And a better coach.  And according to RTK....a "real fan base".  

Yeah Wash is better than us right now on paper...but that franchise is just....cursed. At least since Danny Boi took over. 

6 minutes ago, greend said:

I was thinking duration more than anything honestly. Whether he's an accomplisher passer or not (although I doubt an accomplished passer would be looking to run all the time.

It depends if you think he can shift from a runner to a passer like Wilson and maybe Vick did. But those guys are pretty rare. 

16 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think it was more than his play.  Some reporters have pointed out that his failure to get vaccinated was viewed as a leadership issue by his coaches. The locker room problems the relate to his failure to take accountability also cropped up again.  

And then he got traded to a team that's coach came out about players not being vaccinated.    Things aren't adding up somewhere.

17 minutes ago, greend said:

So here's a question. Should a "running qb" one who looks to run and gains a large portion of his yards on the ground, be treated like a running back? Rookie contract and then move on before contract 2? 

Yes.

17 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Just avoid drafting one in the first place, IMO. I'm not sure how many times we have to see it, but it always fails in the playoffs. Dumb waste of resources in the first place. 

In Round 4... do it.  In Round 2 or higher, the GM should be fired on the spot.

16 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

That's a good question but I think the answer depends on how good his arm is. I think the mistake is giving a big payday to an unproven passer that relies on his legs.  

That's where we are with Lamar Jackson right now.  He's still mostly an unproven passer that relies on his legs.  The entire offense does.

33 minutes ago, greend said:

I was thinking duration more than anything honestly. Whether he's an accomplisher passer or not (although I doubt an accomplished passer would be looking to run all the time.

Malik Willis is the perfect example in this draft. He has very good arm talent, but looks to run too quickly and is erratic with his accuracy.   For me, his value is Round 3, not higher.   And as a 3rd round pick, he can be brought along slowly where he's working day in and day out on his pocket awareness, pocket mobility and throwing the ball with proper mechanics from the pocket.  I'd tie his legs together with a bungee in shotgun formation so that he can't actually run, and make him do the subtle pocket movements needed to maneuver within the pocket.   And I'd keep him off the field in a game situation (outside of preseason) until he figured that stuff out.  (And in PS, he'd be told that he needs to throw the ball away rather than run, even if there's a giant lane to run through.  We know he can run, he needs to learn how to play NFL QB, not NCAA QB.)

 

But, some will see the arm talent potential, and jump the gun.  I doubt he's on the board at #15, and almost certainly won't still be on the board in Round 2, some team at the top of Round 2 will likely make the leap up and take him in Round 1, just like the Ravens did with Lamar.  And, there's some logic there, because as a late 1, you still get that 5th year of control, whereas in Round 2, you only get 4 years.  But, it wouldn't make sense for me to make that selection until Round 3.  Too many players available in Rounds 1 and 2 that you'd be passing over to take that big a boom/bust risk.

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

That's where we are with Lamar Jackson right now.  He's still mostly an unproven passer that relies on his legs.  The entire offense does.

Rk	Player	Tm	Age	Pos	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Yds	Plays	Yds	PassAtt	PassYds	RushAtt ▼	RushYds	PassAtt	PassYds
1	Lamar Jackson*	BAL	24	QB	12	12	246	382	2882	119	834	63	574	54	260	93	831
2	Jalen Hurts	PHI	23	QB	15	15	265	432	3144	154	1178	95	819	52	359	111	994

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Funny, We hate Carson here but Deshuan not only did the same thing he also has sexual assault cases, yet we want Watson

Who says "we"? I don't want Watson.

23 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

It depends if you think he can shift from a runner to a passer like Wilson and maybe Vick did. But those guys are pretty rare. 

After year 4, probably even year 3, that should be blatantly obvious.

9 minutes ago, toolg said:

Who says "we"? I don't want Watson.

Yup.  No thanks on multiple levels.

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

If you polled the people here and said, would you trade 1, first round pick for Deshaun Watson tomorrow, 95% of the people here would do it. 

Even though they hate Wentz for forcing his way out of Philly because of bad management exactly like Watson did. O, and Wentz didnt have the 20+ sexual assault charges like Mr. Watson

You're right about Watson. Except we do have a poll. I don't think we want Watson. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, toolg said:

You're right about Watson. Except we do have a poll. I don't think we want Watson. 

 

 

75% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Nevermind. Washington won that deal. 

I was wrong.  New research indicates that 92.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I was wrong.  New research indicates that 92.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I was wrong.  New research indicates that 92.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Abe Lincoln said never trust anything you see on the internet.  

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Theres 12 different options there. 

Option 1) Trade #19 for Deshuan Watson

Option 2) Have Hurts Start

 

99% of the people would take Watson

I think most of us are torn on Watson.  We want to win, and Watson (on the field) is a clear upgrade over Hurts.  If this were Madden, trading #19 for that is obvious.  In real life, I don't know if I want somebody like Watson wearing an Eagles jersey.  I don't know if I want to win that badly.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

And the other half are wrong.  

There's only 3 kinds of people in the world. 

Those that can count, and those that can't.

Odds Wentz lives through the season?

Would love to have him back.