14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah, that's too far.  He's not good enough to build around, but he's not complete trash.

Hurts is incomplete trash?

I wonder if we could get both Reid and Whitehead (or similar) for the same price as just Marcus Williams.  My preference was one free agent and one draft pick for safety but all of these guys are so young that two free agents would be pretty ok.

Wentz is in the 10-15 range, which is where he's been since 2017, but he's 30, his mobility is declining, he has never fixed his mechanics (elongated motion) and he is resistant to coaching. So there's a lot of downside and almost no upside - if Reich couldn't reach him, I doubt any HC can. He was in a better situation in Indy than he'll be in Washington, solid OL, All pro RB having a great season.

Hurts last year was a year younger than Wentz as a rookie, four schemes in four years, this year he's only 24, 2nd season as starter, obviously a lot more upside.

He made significant progress over his rookie year, we'll see what he does this year.

The obsession with arm strength (Hurts is average or slightly above) is silly, Burrow (24 year old rookie off big NCAA season at 23) doesn't have a cannon, neither did a number of successful QBs. If Hurts improves his mechanics/accuracy and recognition/anticipation, his arm is strong enough to be a top ten QB. We'll see.

Note that the QBs better than Hurts are mostly 25 and older, except Herbert (23), Murray (24), Burrow (24). This is not coincidence, a lot of QBs need a few years to grow into the job.

Just now, Peppersmacks said:

I wonder if we could get both Reid and Whitehead (or similar) for the same price as just Marcus Williams.  My preference was one free agent and one draft pick for safety but all of these guys are so young that two free agents would be pretty ok.

Its free agency. Everyone gets overpaid. Reid and Whitehead will make very close to whatever Williams gets. 

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Other than Ridley, it sounds like all other WR names linked to the eagles are mainly slot WRs.

 

Kirk played mostly outside before moving to the slot last year, so he has some versatility. 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its free agency. Everyone gets overpaid. Reid and Whitehead will make very close to whatever Williams gets. 

Then just go with Williams.  But the projections I've seen have Williams getting around $15 million a year and those other two more in the $7-8 range.

Just now, ManuManu said:

Kirk played mostly outside before moving to the slot last year, so he has some versatility. 

As a prospect, who I was high on, everyone told me he was a slot only guy.

I think thats turned out pretty true. I know he can do both, but my impression is that he is more effective in the slot. I dont know if there are stats anywhere to prove or disprove that. Id be interested to see them.

6 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

First, YOU...YOU told me he his stats say he's average. thats false

SECOND using his average yards per game is a farce. I guess It's wentz fault that he was never down by 30 and had to throw the ball all around the yard like Hurts did 5 or 6 times. Wentz also had little to no garbage time Like Hurts, Lawrence, Danny Jones, ETC. 

Thats fine, you think he's average. I get it. I dont. 

 

Week 1 - Loss to Seattle, down 21-10 at half time....lost 28-16, but sure, little to no garbage time there. Carson Wentz – 25/38, 251 yards, 2 TD

Week 2 - Loss to Rams, down 17-6 with 11 minutes left in the 3rd Q, lost 27-24. Carson Wentz – 20/31, 247 yards, TD, INT

Week 3 - Loss to Titans, down 22-13 with 13 minutes to go in the 4th, lost 25-16. Carson Wentz – 19/37, 194 yards

Week 4 - Win against Dolphins, Colts had the lead in the 4th. Won 27-17. Carson Wentz – 24/32, 228 yards, 2 TD

Week 5 - Loss to Ravens. Good game, Ravens tied it up in the 4th and went to OT. Wentz best game of the year.  Carson Wentz – 25/35, 402 yards, 2 TD

Week 6 - Crushed the Texans 31-3. Taylor went off, Wentz didn't have to do much, Carson Wentz – 11/20, 223 yards, 2 TD

Week 7 - Win against SF. Colts led going into 4th Q and never gave it up. Carson Wentz – 17/26, 150 yards, 2 TD

Week 8 - Loss to Titans. Tight game went to OT, lost on FG. Carson Wentz – 27/51, 231 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT

Here's the game summary for this one:

There’s no sugar coating this one — it was an awful game for Carson Wentz. His three passing touchdowns are the box-score lipstick on what was a pig of a showing for the Colts veteran signal-caller. He threw a back-breaking interception in overtime and one of the worst interceptions of the 2021 NFL season that resulted in an Elijah Molden pick-six. He also completed just 5-of-22 passes for 69 yards on throws 10-plus yards downfield.

Week 9 - Beat the Jets 45-30. Good game from Wentz, they dominated from the get go. Carson Wentz – 22/30, 272 yards, 3 TD

Week 10 - Beat Jax 23-17. Got up 20-9 at half and never gave up the lead.  Carson Wentz – 22/34, 180 yards

Week 11 - Crushed the Bills, 41-15. It was the JT show, had 32 rushes for 185 and 4 TDs.  Carson Wentz – 11/20, 106 yards, TD

Week 12 - Lost to Tampa, 38-31. Colts tied it with 3:29 to go, but defense couldn't hold. Carson Wentz – 27/44, 306 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT 

Week 13 - Shutout the Texans, 31-0. Taylor show again, 32/143/2 Tds. Carson Wentz – 16/22, 158 yards, TD

Week 15 - Beat Pats 27-17. Taylor 29/170/2 TDs. One of the worst games of Wentz career. Carson Wentz – 5/12, 57 yards, TD, INT

Week 16 - Beat the Cards 22-16. Good rebound game for Wentz. Colts had the 4th Q lead and never gave it up. Carson Wentz – 18/28, 225 yards, 2 TD

Week 17 - Lost 23-20 to the Raiders. Wentz was able to tie it up with 1:56 to go, but the defense let up a FG to lose. Carson Wentz – 16/27, 148 yards, TD

Week 18 - Lost to the Jags 26-11, in a win and you're in game. Were down 26-3 with 8:15 to go, that's about as garbage time as it gets. Carson Wentz – 17/29, 185 yards, TD, INT

 

So what? Look at the wins and losses. He was 3-6 in games he had 30 or more attempts. The games they leaned heavily on Taylor were their most successful. Wentz helped his team the most when he was asked to be a game manager. Which, makes him very much average, IMO. 

I predicted Cox getting traded this offseason earlier this year. His option bonus is essentially a 16M suicide pill.

Check this video out.

https://overthecap.com/explaining-the-fletcher-cox-restructure/amp/

Just now, Peppersmacks said:

Then just go with Williams.  But the projections I've seen have Williams getting around $15 million a year and those other two more in the $7-8 range.

I seriously doubt it.

Hes the top free agent at the position. He will re-set the market with whatever his contract ends up being. Anyone else lucky enough to be signing this year gets paid based on that. Those other 2 guys, being young and good will get their new contracts based on the new market price. Im sure there will be safeties available in that 7-8 million range, but it wont be those 2 who are the next best options. Theyll be well paid. 

24 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah, that's too far.  He's not good enough to build around, but he's not complete trash.

 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’d never call a player trash.  I’m not a fan.  

As a thrower of the ball, sorry, he's trash. As a complete package of a player, sure, I can agree he's not trash. He's an excellent runner, a good teammate and a hard worker. 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

 

Week 8 - Loss to Titans. Tight game went to OT, lost on FG. Carson Wentz – 27/51, 231 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT

Here's the game summary for this one:

There’s no sugar coating this one — it was an awful game for Carson Wentz. His three passing touchdowns are the box-score lipstick on what was a pig of a showing for the Colts veteran signal-caller. He threw a back-breaking interception in overtime and one of the worst interceptions of the 2021 NFL season that resulted in an Elijah Molden pick-six. He also completed just 5-of-22 passes for 69 yards on throws 10-plus yards downfield.

 

Not a Wentz fan at all here, but I'll defend one play he's been getting killed for. The Pick 6 against the Titans. Tie game with about 1:30 to go. He's in the grasp in the endzone. IF he takes a sack there, it's two points and they have to kick it away. Going down 7, but getting the ball back is the better scenario... so throwing it up for grabs was the right thing to do....

 

Although it can be argued he put himself in that bad spot by that weird pump fake to his right.

21 minutes ago, Peppersmacks said:

This suggests you can designate a trade post June 1 so really not sure.

Still not worth it, if he is traded post June 1

2022 - 12.8 million dead, 2.12 million savings

2023 - 11.2 million dead, 1.5 million savings.

7 minutes ago, shlo said:

Not a Wentz fan at all here, but I'll defend one play he's been getting killed for. The Pick 6 against the Titans. Tie game with about 1:30 to go. He's in the grasp in the endzone. IF he takes a sack there, it's two points and they have to kick it away. Going down 7, but getting the ball back is the better scenario... so throwing it up for grabs was the right thing to do....

 

Although it can be argued he put himself in that bad spot by that weird pump fake to his right.

Yeah I can see that argument...still....231 yards on 51 attempts???? That's bad, mmmkay. 

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Still not worth it, if he is traded post June 1

2022 - 12.8 million dead, 2.12 million savings

2023 - 11.2 million dead, 1.5 million savings.

So I guess you'd say......we've been stuck with Cox? 

 

23 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Hurts is incomplete trash?

Yup.  

35 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yeah, I keep forgetting how awful that reworked deal was. 

To hear Jason from OTC talk about it, its a good restructure.  I disagree though.   The best thing for us to do is move on from that salary, and it really doesn't allow for that easily.  

21 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Week 1 - Loss to Seattle, down 21-10 at half time....lost 28-16, but sure, little to no garbage time there. Carson Wentz – 25/38, 251 yards, 2 TD

Week 2 - Loss to Rams, down 17-6 with 11 minutes left in the 3rd Q, lost 27-24. Carson Wentz – 20/31, 247 yards, TD, INT

Week 3 - Loss to Titans, down 22-13 with 13 minutes to go in the 4th, lost 25-16. Carson Wentz – 19/37, 194 yards

Week 4 - Win against Dolphins, Colts had the lead in the 4th. Won 27-17. Carson Wentz – 24/32, 228 yards, 2 TD

Week 5 - Loss to Ravens. Good game, Ravens tied it up in the 4th and went to OT. Wentz best game of the year.  Carson Wentz – 25/35, 402 yards, 2 TD

Week 6 - Crushed the Texans 31-3. Taylor went off, Wentz didn't have to do much, Carson Wentz – 11/20, 223 yards, 2 TD

Week 7 - Win against SF. Colts led going into 4th Q and never gave it up. Carson Wentz – 17/26, 150 yards, 2 TD

Week 8 - Loss to Titans. Tight game went to OT, lost on FG. Carson Wentz – 27/51, 231 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT

Here's the game summary for this one:

There’s no sugar coating this one — it was an awful game for Carson Wentz. His three passing touchdowns are the box-score lipstick on what was a pig of a showing for the Colts veteran signal-caller. He threw a back-breaking interception in overtime and one of the worst interceptions of the 2021 NFL season that resulted in an Elijah Molden pick-six. He also completed just 5-of-22 passes for 69 yards on throws 10-plus yards downfield.

Week 9 - Beat the Jets 45-30. Good game from Wentz, they dominated from the get go. Carson Wentz – 22/30, 272 yards, 3 TD

Week 10 - Beat Jax 23-17. Got up 20-9 at half and never gave up the lead.  Carson Wentz – 22/34, 180 yards

Week 11 - Crushed the Bills, 41-15. It was the JT show, had 32 rushes for 185 and 4 TDs.  Carson Wentz – 11/20, 106 yards, TD

Week 12 - Lost to Tampa, 38-31. Colts tied it with 3:29 to go, but defense couldn't hold. Carson Wentz – 27/44, 306 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT 

Week 13 - Shutout the Texans, 31-0. Taylor show again, 32/143/2 Tds. Carson Wentz – 16/22, 158 yards, TD

Week 15 - Beat Pats 27-17. Taylor 29/170/2 TDs. One of the worst games of Wentz career. Carson Wentz – 5/12, 57 yards, TD, INT

Week 16 - Beat the Cards 22-16. Good rebound game for Wentz. Colts had the 4th Q lead and never gave it up. Carson Wentz – 18/28, 225 yards, 2 TD

Week 17 - Lost 23-20 to the Raiders. Wentz was able to tie it up with 1:56 to go, but the defense let up a FG to lose. Carson Wentz – 16/27, 148 yards, TD

Week 18 - Lost to the Jags 26-11, in a win and you're in game. Were down 26-3 with 8:15 to go, that's about as garbage time as it gets. Carson Wentz – 17/29, 185 yards, TD, INT

 

So what? Look at the wins and losses. He was 3-6 in games he had 30 or more attempts. The games they leaned heavily on Taylor were their most successful. Wentz helped his team the most when he was asked to be a game manager. Which, makes him very much average, IMO. 

I think he had a similar record with the Eagles.  When he threw 30+ times they had a losing record.  Hopefully for Washington's sake they are going to run the ball alot.  

If the Eagles "almost" traded Cox last season at the trade deadline, and teams are still calling about him as per Rapaport -- I'd say it's very likely he goes soon.  

Claypool and 20 for Fletcher and 15.  Who says no?

34 minutes ago, Peppersmacks said:

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2020/3/19/21186561/understanding-the-post-june-1-designation

 

This suggests you can designate a trade post June 1 so really not sure.  We will always have some dead cap due to the void years spillover but after last season, I had Cox and Brooks as the last remaining anchor contracts to get off of so it would be nice to have the books cleared (even if we will feel the effects for a couple years).

It would be nice to have the books cleared.  Sadly, there are more to hit in 2023, and possibly 2024.  

There's still the question of Kelce and his poison pill.  How will they deal with that?  The Howie trend is to push money to the future and add void years.  That means there's going to be money on the books like this into perpetuity at least as long as Howie is still running things.   (Check the contract of Josh Sweat... he's got that same structure, and he just signed his deal, Howie hasn't changed his spots.)

17 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

If you have a great offense and top 10 DLine you can make a serious run. I wouldn’t use a ton of draft capital on LBs or guys in the secondary. 

Yeah who needs cover guys or an upgrade to the LB core?  

22 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Yeah I can see that argument...still....231 yards on 51 attempts???? That's bad, mmmkay. 

 

 

Just defending the play. Not the player. lol

42 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

As a prospect, who I was high on, everyone told me he was a slot only guy.

I think thats turned out pretty true. I know he can do both, but my impression is that he is more effective in the slot. I dont know if there are stats anywhere to prove or disprove that. Id be interested to see them.

I think you’re spot on. He’s better in the slot, but we want to move all three around so he at least can play well enough outside. I’m not really interested in him at his rumored price. 

34 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Still not worth it, if he is traded post June 1

2022 - 12.8 million dead, 2.12 million savings

2023 - 11.2 million dead, 1.5 million savings.

For a 3, I’d still take it. We’re not a contender and he is declining. 

Found our Day 1 of FA target that we'll cut at some point during the season