3 hours ago, bpac55 said:

It would be 100% negative.  This defense needs an infusion of young talent in the worst way and the 1st round is full of them at NEED positions.  I've been vocal in my wanting a 1st round WR but if they do that, they need to go defense with the other two.  

What would infuriate me is if an OT slides that Howie feels would be a good LJ replacement in 3 years and he makes a move to get him, wasting picks and ignoring defensive needs.

 

What if the OT slides in and plays at high level at RG until they move on from Lane Johnson? 

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It would be nice to have the books cleared.  Sadly, there are more to hit in 2023, and possibly 2024.  

There's still the question of Kelce and his poison pill.  How will they deal with that?  The Howie trend is to push money to the future and add void years.  That means there's going to be money on the books like this into perpetuity at least as long as Howie is still running things.   (Check the contract of Josh Sweat... he's got that same structure, and he just signed his deal, Howie hasn't changed his spots.)

You constantly complain about this stuff and I think way too obsessed with it.  Every team is pushing cap into future years.  First, because it makes sense as the cap continues to grow.  Second, some of it was forced because of the COVID impact on the cap.  Yes, there will always be dead money on the cap and when a new contract is signed, it will escalating and  weighted towards the back.  That in the abstract is fine.  You really only get into trouble when the player isn't on the team anymore.  

My measuring stick for whether Howie learned from his mistakes of the last couple years is not how he structures second contracts - he's always killed at those.  It's whether he can get back to his prior ways of giving out third contracts in only the most special of circumstances.

26 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Claypool and 20 for Fletcher and 15.  Who says no?

PIT?

You go BPA in the first couple rounds, then upside in the 3rd and 4th, and ST/depth/longshots from the 5th round onward.

You can't waste picks in the top 50 or so going for need.

 

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

For a 3, I’d still take it. We’re not a contender and he is declining. 

Just looked at a little further, if he stays this year, and you post June 1 him in 2023, it is still only 1.5 saved for 2023 with 11.1 dead.

You then still have to pay a guy to play in his place, unless the draft pick compensation is huge, it is better just to have him play out the contract.

Because of the void year nonsense included in the last restructure, there will never be any real cap savings and always 10+ million dead cap hits.

 

 

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You go BPA in the first couple rounds, then upside in the 3rd and 4th, and ST/depth/longshots from the 5th round onward.

You can't waste picks in the top 50 or so going for need.

 

Guess it is good that no matter who the BPA is when we are on the clock, we are going to have a need.

We need 2 DE's, a DT, 1 if not 2 safeties, CB, WR, LB

44 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Wentz is in the 10-15 range, which is where he's been since 2017, but he's 30, his mobility is declining, he has never fixed his mechanics (elongated motion) and he is resistant to coaching. So there's a lot of downside and almost no upside - if Reich couldn't reach him, I doubt any HC can. He was in a better situation in Indy than he'll be in Washington, solid OL, All pro RB having a great season.

Hurts last year was a year younger than Wentz as a rookie, four schemes in four years, this year he's only 24, 2nd season as starter, obviously a lot more upside.

He made significant progress over his rookie year, we'll see what he does this year.

The obsession with arm strength (Hurts is average or slightly above) is silly, Burrow (24 year old rookie off big NCAA season at 23) doesn't have a cannon, neither did a number of successful QBs. If Hurts improves his mechanics/accuracy and recognition/anticipation, his arm is strong enough to be a top ten QB. We'll see.

Note that the QBs better than Hurts are mostly 25 and older, except Herbert (23), Murray (24), Burrow (24). This is not coincidence, a lot of QBs need a few years to grow into the job.

Hurts' upside never came close to matching what the upside was for Wentz.  And even now on any given day, Wentz still has a higher probability of being able to pass his team to success than Hurts.  Wentz can make all the throws, Hurts cannot and never will be able to.  Wentz does see the field to his left.  Wentz does throw the ball over the middle and deep.   Wentz doesn't have to crow hop to throw the ball 40 yards in the air.  But, Wentz has his own set of issues.  But, if I find myself in a shootout type game, I'd much rather have Wentz than Hurts... I've actually seen Wentz win a time or two in those situations (though those instances are farther in the rearview now) and Hurts has NEVER done it.

Hurts' upside isn't much higher than his current level.  And his mobility will decline, much like a RB loses mobility as the hits pile up.  Hurts runs too much, so he's going to continue to rack up hits and limit his mobility moving forward.   

Obsession with arm strength?  No.  Recognition that limited arm strength limits ceiling.  Limited arm strength can be overcome with better anticipation, field vision, better and faster reads, and pinpoint accuracy.   Hurts has none of those.  Can he improve some of them?  Yes.  Can he improve of all of them sufficiently to make up for the deficiencies in arm strength?  No.  

I'd like to ask you to note that nearly all of the QBs better than Hurts also have stronger arms than Hurts as well.  I wonder why that is if it's so overrated.  BTW, Burrow has a stronger arm than Hurts.   And for once, can you please please please stop using single examples of exceptions to generalized rules to defend things of which you try to convince yourself.   Joe Montana was short like Hurts, and also didn't have a cannon... but he had a TON of other things Hurts lacks.  Drew Brees fits pretty close to that Joe Montana mold... but Hurts is not of that mold.  Trying to fit Hurts into the categories of those types of QBs because they lacked something that Hurts also lacks is just a false equivalency.  The differences between Hurts and those guys is why he can never reach the ceiling that they reached.

22 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

For a 3, I’d still take it. We’re not a contender and he is declining. 

Yup.  In a case like this, you get what you can while you can get it.

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I feel like thats a common stat for most QB's. The more you throw the more likely your probably losing.

I wont look into it but I bet your Matthew Stafford's career record of throwing 30 or 35+ is god F****ING awful. 

Every game Derrick Carr lost last year he threw it over 30 times. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/matthew-stafford-record-in-games-with-more-than-30-passing-attempts-career

Here you go. Stafford is 67-84-1. Bad. 

Wentz is 23-35-1. Bad.

Goff of all people, is 29-29.

Watson 13-19. 

Russ W - 39-35-1

Dak - 25-27

Brady, 169-57, lol.

P Manning - 123-59.

Brees - 119-97.

Hurts - 2-6.

Carr is 41-54. 

13 minutes ago, Peppersmacks said:

You constantly complain about this stuff and I think way too obsessed with it.  Every team is pushing cap into future years.  First, because it makes sense as the cap continues to grow.  Second, some of it was forced because of the COVID impact on the cap.  Yes, there will always be dead money on the cap and when a new contract is signed, it will escalating and  weighted towards the back.  That in the abstract is fine.  You really only get into trouble when the player isn't on the team anymore.  

My measuring stick for whether Howie learned from his mistakes of the last couple years is not how he structures second contracts - he's always killed at those.  It's whether he can get back to his prior ways of giving out third contracts in only the most special of circumstances.

Thanks.  Every team isn't racking up $110M in dead money over 3 consecutive years.   Every team isn't painting themselves into the corner that the Eagles have where they have the least amount of flexibility to free up money. 

Yes yes, the Covid impact.  Only the Eagles had the Covid impact.  OR... is it that the Eagles were the ones that had already limited their flexibility with the cap and when Covid hit were least able to deal with it because of their structures.  

Oh, Howie has learned from his mistakes of the last couple years and its not how he structures second contracts?  
nope.  See below.  Second contract for Sweat... same structures as he has used with these others.  Second contract for Maddox... same structure.

Two year deals and almost forces himself to have to restructure in 2 years and kick the can some more.   But, maybe you like having the flexibility in FA to sign Eric Wilson, Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Harris, etc.  to one year deals with dead money in year 2.   

 

I'm not upset that they will always have dead cap, its the amount of it and to whom they are owing the dead cap to.  This year, Alshon Jeffery and Malik Jackson will count for dead money on the cap... two guys who haven't made a contribution to this team (if any) since 2020, but we get to pay for them in 2021 AND 2022.  

19 hours ago, Dwide Schrude said:

Was just about to post This. With the lack of QB out there. Is this finally the year Kaep returns? I highly highly doubt it, but hey Tebow did return for a bit

As a tight end, wasn't it? Kaep wouldn't consider a position unless it was as a starter as I recall. I imagine Kaep doesn't like being forgotten.

6 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Im sure Rodgers is a stupid winning percentage too. But theyre elite. 

It's gonna be interesting how Ron used him in DC. Gonna be interesting to see the schedule. Redskins play a weak schedule in a weaker division that the Colts(should prop up wentz's numbers and in my opinion Wentz has a better defense and better weapons in DC. I think it's over looked how bad his WR/TE's were in Indy

Rodgers is "only" 86-50-1 oddly. 

Some other interesting names,

Favre - 111-90

Ben - 87-68-1

Lamar - 9-6

Foles - 18-20

Mahomes - 36-13

Allen - 20-15

Scam - 32-41-1

Vick - 14-21-1

McNabb - 58-42-1

Few more,

Kaep - 5-15, lol

Tebow - 1-2

Fitzmagic - 28-62-1, ooof. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Thanks.  Every team isn't racking up $110M in dead money over 3 consecutive years.   Every team isn't painting themselves into the corner that the Eagles have where they have the least amount of flexibility to free up money. 

Yes yes, the Covid impact.  Only the Eagles had the Covid impact.  OR... is it that the Eagles were the ones that had already limited their flexibility with the cap and when Covid hit were least able to deal with it because of their structures.  

Oh, Howie has learned from his mistakes of the last couple years and its not how he structures second contracts?  
nope.  See below.  Second contract for Sweat... same structures as he has used with these others.  Second contract for Maddox... same structure.

Two year deals and almost forces himself to have to restructure in 2 years and kick the can some more.   But, maybe you like having the flexibility in FA to sign Eric Wilson, Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Harris, etc.  to one year deals with dead money in year 2.   

 

I'm not upset that they will always have dead cap, its the amount of it and to whom they are owing the dead cap to.  This year, Alshon Jeffery and Malik Jackson will count for dead money on the cap... two guys who haven't made a contribution to this team (if any) since 2020, but we get to pay for them in 2021 AND 2022.  

I don't know if you honestly are not following what I am saying or just trying to move the goal posts but.... Again, we all knew the Eagles were have tons more dead space than others a couple years ago.  This isn't news.  But what caused those dead cap hits other than the Wentz situation which no one foresaw was third contracts, not second contracts.  What I am saying is that the only second contracts is not what caused this problem and thus there is no need to change how we structure them.  What caused the issue you're obsessed with is third and fourth contracts to people like Alshon, Malik Jackson, Fletcher, and Brooks.  Whether or not Howie learned his lesson will be seen by whether he stops giving them out or, if he does, that they are not backloaded.

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts' upside never came close to matching what the upside was for Wentz.

Difference is Hurts still has all his upside, Wentz has none.

The other factor is he had three inexperienced receivers in Smith, Watkins and Gainwell, and nonfactors in Reagor and Stoll.

Nor did the Eagles have a real power back, and Sanders was MIA half the season, RG was a revolving door.

So not just Hurts, but the whole offense has a lot of head room this season.

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  In a case like this, you get what you can while you can get it.

I haven't really thought about 3T prospects with Fletcher's seemingly untradeable contract and Milton in the wings.  I guess if he was moved, Matthew Butler from Tennessee would be a nice depth selection in the ~5th.

As far as dead money, Howie has admitted he screwed up trying to keep the window open.

On a team discarding its veterans, with a lot of draft picks and young players, cap room won't be an issue since Howie hasn't gone crazy in free agency since the Dream Team fiasco, he focuses on value. And after 2018-20, I doubt he'll give out a lot of overpriced third contracts, more likely he'll be moving out veterans while they have trade value.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

WE(not just you and I) but on here had a debate if Big Ben was Elite, or if he was elite for specific years and I feel like I alway see a stat that points him in the elite direction. 

He had a strange career for sure. Started very below average and was able to win two Super Bowls being so, then had a nice stretch of "elite" play but couldn't win anything, then tailed off again. 

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Hurts is floor is well below Wentz is floor

Hurts ceiling is no where near Wentz's past or future ceiling. 

Eagles had a better OL than the Colts(who started 10 different lineups)

Eagles had better talent at WR/TE and it's not even close.

 

Anybody that would want Hurts over Wentz is just spitting into the wind. Pointless.

2 minutes ago, Peppersmacks said:

I don't know if you honestly are not following what I am saying or just trying to move the goal posts but.... Again, we all knew the Eagles were have tons more dead space than others a couple years ago.  This isn't news.  But what caused those dead cap hits other than the Wentz situation which no one foresaw was third contracts, not second contracts.  What I am saying is that the only second contracts is not what caused this problem and thus there is no need to change how we structure them.  What caused the issue you're obsessed with is third and fourth contracts to people like Alshon, Malik Jackson, Fletcher, and Brooks.  Whether or not Howie learned his lesson will be seen by whether he stops giving them out or, if he does, that they are not backloaded.

Yes, we knew it was going to be a lot of dead money.  Because of what Howie did in the structures.  We also know that he continued to dig deeper as he tried to dig out... look at the Fletcher Cox deal as an example, that just happened... and he's pretty much stuck here.  

And please don't tell me no one foresaw this.  People, including myself, talked about it being an issue going back to 2018 or 2019.    

Now, as for the second contracts not being the problem, to a certain extent, you are right.  BUT... Howie has been structuring his second contracts almost exactly the same as the third contracts.  And it's the structure of the second contract that forces a restructure to a 3rd.   Using the example of Josh Sweat... his contract is really a 2 year deal with a $14M hit in year 3... or its a 3 year deal with a $9M hit in year 4... or more likely what will happen is after year 2, (or even in the middle of year 2) Howie will restructure and turn a vast majority of that base salary of $13.7M into a signing bonus, and add another year or two on, with more voided years with even more poison at the end.  That's what happened with the Cox deal, Graham deal, Brooks deal, etc.   This is following the exact same script and appears that he's learned nothing.  But since the cap is going up again, he has some more years to kick the money forward into.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Difference is Hurts still has all his upside, Wentz has none.

The other factor is he had three inexperienced receivers in Smith, Watkins and Gainwell, and nonfactors in Reagor and Stoll.

Nor did the Eagles have a real power back, and Sanders was MIA half the season, RG was a revolving door.

So not just Hurts, but the whole offense has a lot of head room this season.

Awesome... the upside of a short, below average armed QB with terrible field vision, bad anticipation, and limited accuracy.

Dumb

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Dumb

yup, but it's splashy.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes, we knew it was going to be a lot of dead money.  Because of what Howie did in the structures.  We also know that he continued to dig deeper as he tried to dig out... look at the Fletcher Cox deal as an example, that just happened... and he's pretty much stuck here.  

And please don't tell me no one foresaw this.  People, including myself, talked about it being an issue going back to 2018 or 2019.    

 

I said everyone foresaw this issue years ago and knew we'd have to clean up the books painfully.  What no one foresaw was COVID and its impact on the salary cap making it much worse than it needed to be.  That is what caused the need for the Cox restructure last year.  Obviously I'm not saying Howie was perfect.  I listed a bunch of mistakes above, almost all of which were questionable immediately.  But you're constant harping about it means one of two things.  One, is you just want to keep complaining about the past, which is not really productive.  Second, your fear that those mistakes indicate future action and I'm simply explaining why the Sweat contract is not evidence of that to me.  What will be concerning to me is a new contract for someone like Semualo (we really don't have many players who are even conceivably under discussion for a third contract so he's not a great example) or if Howie gives big money to free agents this offseason who are getting their third contracts instead of their seconds.  It's really when he got this idea that older veterans were the market inefficiency that he got himself into trouble.  That is what I will be looking for.