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Eagles never should have fired Reid


Procus
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3 hours ago, Procus said:

Put it like this, if for some crazy reason, circumstances were switched and the Eagles drafted Brady while the Pats drafted McNabb, what team do you think would have had all those trophies?

Hard to say the Eagles win as many titles as the Patriots but likely the Eagles win a championship or 2👍

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18 minutes ago, gregbwfc1 said:

Hard to say the Eagles win as many titles as the Patriots but likely the Eagles win a championship or 2👍

I'm saying that sans Brady, NE wins zero championships

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23 minutes ago, Procus said:

I'm saying that sans Brady, NE wins zero championships

Oh yeah, sorry, misunderstood. Agree definitely 👍 

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2 hours ago, MIRV Griffen said:

Andy did a lot of good things in Philly.  His winning record aside, he wasn’t afraid to make tough choices and buck the system (for better or worse).  

He drafted McNabb over Williams, much to the ire of a large portion of the fanbase, and got it right.  He had the stomach to cut/trade fan favorite players when he sensed the time was right, and definitely made the right call more often than not (think Duce/Trotter).  

I’d argue that he was the singular catalyst for a massive, positive shift in draft philosophy, too.  When I was growing up, insiders and talking heads thought you were crazy if you drafted an offensive lineman in the first round.  Andy didn’t care, showing the previously dismissed value in quality OLineman as 1st round assets, and made it a talking point for the drafts we see today.

But he did have glaring, maddening flaws in his on-field decision making that worthy absolutely worthy of criticism.  Time management, hyper-conservative playcalling (especially once he had a lead), etc.  At the end, with the extreme difficulties in his personal life hovering over him, it had spiraled into his personnel choices and it was clear that he needed a fresh start.  It was the right move to let him go, it benefited both parties,  and history has proven that.

I still won't fault Reid for letting Dawkins go. He had one good season the first year with Denver and that was it. He bottomed out pretty fast afterwards.

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On 1/26/2022 at 12:15 PM, SPIDER-MAN said:

I still won't fault Reid for letting Dawkins go. He had one good season the first year with Denver and that was it. He bottomed out pretty fast afterwards.

Agree.  Even then, Joe Banner gets the bulk of booger for that decision.  It’s no coincidence that Banner was also let go shortly after that move.  Even if Dawk regressed on our watch, he should’ve been one the few Eagles-for-Life guys and been allowed to retire with us having never worn another uniform.  The fact that he’s a Hall of Famer puts an exclamation point on that fact.

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5 hours ago, Perforator said:

If the goal is to win the Super Bowl the fat man was an utter failure here. Good riddance.

jackass-ungrateful.gif

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5 hours ago, toolg said:

I think both sides needed a fresh start by 2012. The team had gotten stale, going 4-12 losing 11 of the last 12 games. Reid was fired, Chip Kelly comes in overhauling the roster, leading to Doug P. and the 2018 Super Bowl win. Andy goes to KC, winning the Super Bowl in 2020. 

It seems to have worked out for both. Who knows if they would have won a Super Bowl if Andy stayed in Philly. 

The team lost all of those games only after ownership signaled Andy was on his way out.  But you are correct in that there is likely no SB in 2017 if Reid never leaves.  Still, look at the Eagles squad now and the Chiefs squad now.

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23 hours ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

I still won't fault Reid for letting Dawkins go. He had one good season the first year with Denver and that was it. He bottomed out pretty fast afterwards.

I don’t care. There are some guys you never let walk out the door. Dawk is one of those guys that should have been an Eagle until the day he decided to retire. 

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23 hours ago, MIRV Griffen said:

Agree.  Even then, Joe Banner gets the bulk of booger for that decision.  It’s no coincidence that Banner was also let go shortly after that move.  Even if Dawk regressed on our watch, he should’ve been one the few Eagles-for-Life guys and been allowed to retire with us having never worn another uniform.  The fact that he’s a Hall of Famed puts an exclamation point on that fact.

Agreed. For me personally, Dawk is in a very short list with Graham and Kelce when it comes to players who should never be allowed to wear another uniform. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 11:38 AM, toolg said:

I think both sides needed a fresh start by 2012. The team had gotten stale, going 4-12 losing 11 of the last 12 games. Reid was fired, Chip Kelly comes in overhauling the roster, leading to Doug P. and the 2018 Super Bowl win. Andy goes to KC, winning the Super Bowl in 2020. 

It seems to have worked out for both. Who knows if they would have won a Super Bowl if Andy stayed in Philly. 

This actually the best take on it, period. great post by you.

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I think he and the Eagles had to part at that time, although he is my favorite coach and I would have hung in there with him. They just needed to go their separate ways at the time- both needed fresh starts. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 10:48 AM, MIRV Griffen said:

He drafted McNabb over Williams, much to the ire of a large portion of the fanbase, and got it right.  He had the stomach to cut/trade fan favorite players when he sensed the time was right, and definitely made the right call more often than not (think Duce/Trotter).  

I’d argue that he was the singular catalyst for a massive, positive shift in draft philosophy, too.  When I was growing up, insiders and talking heads thought you were crazy if you drafted an offensive lineman in the first round.  Andy didn’t care, showing the previously dismissed value in quality OLineman as 1st round assets, and made it a talking point for the drafts we see today.

But he did have glaring, maddening flaws in his on-field decision making that worthy absolutely worthy of criticism.  Time management, hyper-conservative playcalling (especially once he had a lead), etc.  At the end, with the extreme difficulties in his personal life hovering over him, it had spiraled into his personnel choices and it was clear that he needed a fresh start.  It was the right move to let him go, it benefited both parties,  and history has proven that.

In the case of McNabb, if Andy had REALLY played his cards right, he could have worked out a three-way deal where the Colts got most of the Saints picks except the 1st in 2000 and maybe 1-2 others while the Eagles moved down two spots and still gotten McNabb while ALSO getting Marshall Faulk from the Colts.  In that scenario:

The Saints take Ricky with pick #2
The Bengals go ahead and as planned take Akili Smith with pick #3 (Bengals were openly enamored with him)
Eagles still take McNabb with pick #4.and they also have Faulk (who was traded to the Rams for a second and fifth round pick).

Colts likely turn around if need be move back up with the Saints picks or stay at 12 and still get Edgerron James.

Eagles wind up with the #2 pick in the 2000 draft and likely take LaVar Arrington with that pick.  

I suspect with Faulk in addition to McNabb, Eagles actually win the NFC East in Reid's first season in 1999.

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9 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

In the case of McNabb, if Andy had REALLY played his cards right, he could have worked out a three-way deal where the Colts got most of the Saints picks except the 1st in 2000 and maybe 1-2 others while the Eagles moved down two spots and still gotten McNabb while ALSO getting Marshall Faulk from the Colts.  In that scenario:

The Saints take Ricky with pick #2
The Bengals go ahead and as planned take Akili Smith with pick #3 (Bengals were openly enamored with him)
Eagles still take McNabb with pick #4.and they also have Faulk (who was traded to the Rams for a second and fifth round pick).

Colts likely turn around if need be move back up with the Saints picks or stay at 12 and still get Edgerron James.

Eagles wind up with the #2 pick in the 2000 draft and likely take LaVar Arrington with that pick.  

I suspect with Faulk in addition to McNabb, Eagles actually win the NFC East in Reid's first season in 1999.

You know what’s funny? As soon as I read the first sentence, I knew this was a Wally post without even seeing the name. 

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19 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Eagles wind up with the #2 pick in the 2000 draft and likely take LaVar Arrington with that pick. 

Leaping LaVar Arrington?

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1 hour ago, EagleMatt said:

Reid didn't have Mahomes in philly.

I'll say it again, if the Eagles had taken Wilson in the second round rather than waiting for him in the back in the 2012 draft, he may very well still be here, and we may very well be bragging about multiple Superbowl victories (imagine Russell throwing to Jackson, Maclin, and Ertz while handing the ball of to McCoy?!  Man...)

And whose decision was it wait to the third?  Howie's?!

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11 hours ago, nipples said:

I don’t care. There are some guys you never let walk out the door. Dawk is one of those guys that should have been an Eagle until the day he decided to retire. 

I've hated to see a lot of players go but I have to disagree. You don't make roster decisions based on past performance or out of loyalty etc. You should only take into account what a player may bring to the team going forward and the consequences of letting them go. If there was no limit to how many players a team can have or no salary cap, it would be different. There are ways to keep players around by giving them a coaching or consultant title without holding back other players or the team. That's if the player isn't interested in playing somewhere else.

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3 hours ago, Philthy Jawn said:

I'll say it again, if the Eagles had taken Wilson in the second round rather than waiting for him in the back in the 2012 draft, he may very well still be here, and we may very well be bragging about multiple Superbowl victories (imagine Russell throwing to Jackson, Maclin, and Ertz while handing the ball of to McCoy?!  Man...)

And whose decision was it wait to the third?  Howie's?!

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howie3.thumb.jpg.1d2c0f536551a048b382fdf551a15ad7.jpg

 

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22 hours ago, Philthy Jawn said:

I'll say it again, if the Eagles had taken Wilson in the second round rather than waiting for him in the back in the 2012 draft, he may very well still be here, and we may very well be bragging about multiple Superbowl victories (imagine Russell throwing to Jackson, Maclin, and Ertz while handing the ball of to McCoy?!  Man...)

And whose decision was it wait to the third?  Howie's?!

Reid may have made Wilson sit the year behind Vick. So probably still same outcome. 

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On 1/27/2022 at 8:22 PM, Philthy Jawn said:

I'll say it again, if the Eagles had taken Wilson in the second round rather than waiting for him in the back in the 2012 draft, he may very well still be here, and we may very well be bragging about multiple Superbowl victories (imagine Russell throwing to Jackson, Maclin, and Ertz while handing the ball of to McCoy?!  Man...)

And whose decision was it wait to the third?  Howie's?!

On the bright side, the QB selected with that 3rd round pick instead, Nick Foles, did eventually bring us a Super Bowl win.

Plus, the three other guys selected in the first two rounds were all starters on that Super Bowl team (Fletcher Cox, Mychal Kendricks, Vinny Curry). 2012 was one of our better draft classes in recent memory.

The drafting has been more suspect though in recent years, although 2021's draft class does look promising compared to the previous 2 years.

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On 1/24/2022 at 1:25 PM, Procus said:

C'mon - it's pretty clear. 

Uh we won a SB without him. Something he had years to do. So it's not pretty clear at all.

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At the time, I wasn't in favor of him being fired. But after a while, I came to the conclusion that it was time for both sides to have a change. Normally, I wouldn't be happy for a former Eagle having Super Bowl success, but since the Eagles got a Lombardi before Andy, I can feel ok for him. Also, an exception to that rule was when Dick won the Super Bowl with the Rams. I was genuinely happy for him.

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Nah, he was done here and made a number of really dumb decisions throughout his time here.  It was really bad near the end, and he'd have been canned well before he was if it weren't for JJ's defenses carrying him.  Let's not forget all the horrible misses in the draft, the terrible clock management, and the inability to adapt his gameplan.  All that said, I still liked him as a coach, but he had to go.

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