June 27, 20224 yr 19 minutes ago, paco said: Life does begin at conception. Yeah, we can find common ground for the policy but I don't agree with this definition.
June 27, 20224 yr 2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said: The pay gap exists in some fields more than others. But one of the most (if not the most) important reasons it has shrunk over the last 50 years is because we are on our 4th generation of women who had access to abortion. That is 10000% rubbish. Half of the women who get abortions are below the federal poverty level. Another 25% of them are within 200% of the poverty level. And again, we’re talking about comparing equal pay for equal jobs (ie, is there prejudice against women that results in them being paid less than a man who’s in the same position). You’re trying to change the topic to something else, and not supporting this argument anyway.
June 27, 20224 yr 4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Yeah, we can find common ground for the policy but I don't agree with this definition. What do you classify a zygote as? Follow up question: Can a zygote be classified as living or dead? I know you arn't a biologist, but try.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, paco said: What do you classify a zygote as? Follow up question: Can a zygote be classified as living or dead? Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant "human life".
June 27, 20224 yr 3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant "human life". Ok. Outside of a human, what else could grow from a zygote from a man and a woman? If we took a DNA sample of your zygote, genetically how different is it from you today?
June 27, 20224 yr 4 minutes ago, paco said: What do you classify a zygote as? Follow up question: Can a zygote be classified as living or dead? I know you arn't a biologist, but try. If embryos were found in a Petri dish on another planet the headline would be "life found on x planet”. It’s not inorganic matter. It’s the first stage of development that maybe doesn’t have "personhood” yet but anyone arguing it’s not life at this point is just being a science denier.
June 27, 20224 yr Who has less abortions than Homosexuals? Here's an entire class of people guaranteed to never to have an abortion. Leave them the F alone. The Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside. You'd think they'd make natural allies. Maybe the Priests who take a vow of chastity should keep their hands off the Alter Boys. GC.
June 27, 20224 yr 16 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: well if that's how you feel, you probably shouldn't opt for an abortion. but that doesn't answer the question of whether it should be an option for someone who doesn't think the same way. weird that a free country would allow people to look at the same situation two different ways. for me, I'll opt for the one that retains a woman's right to choose whether she wants to terminate a pregnancy early on (I'll keep it to the 15 week threshold, which should be time for most outside of medical conditions that may arise later which should also be permissable) well before the consciousness of the fetus resembles anything human.. SO how do you feel about Parents who kill their 2 Year old child? Should we just let them, because we do not think the same way as they do?
June 27, 20224 yr 14 minutes ago, paco said: The dogwhistle worked in about 5 minutes without even tagging the user. F'n tool You thought calling me autistic was a dog whistle?
June 27, 20224 yr People in Canada are out protesting that Roe vs Wade has been overturned in the US ...... even though in Canada it's legal at all stages of pregnancy (regardless of reason), and publicly funded as a medical procedure under the Health Care Act. These people really should have been aborted before they were born.
June 27, 20224 yr 2 minutes ago, binkybink77 said: If embryos were found in a Petri dish on another planet the headline would be "life found on x planet”. It’s not inorganic matter. It’s the first stage of development that maybe doesn’t have "personhood” yet but anyone arguing it’s not life at this point is just a science denier. After the last 2 years, it's pretty safe to say Dr Philly is very much a science denier.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, jsdarkstar said: Who has less abortions than Homosexuals? Here's an entire class of people guaranteed to never to have an abortion. Leave them the F alone. The Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside. You'd think they'd make natural allies. Maybe the Priests who take a vow of chastity should keep their hands off the Alter Boys. GC. In the middle of an out of left field and semi incoherent rant did you just get the initials to Jesus Christ wrong?
June 27, 20224 yr 40 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: It's a fetus, until birth when it is no longer biologically dependent upon the mother. Can a 15 week old fetus survive without the mother? This isn’t a logical argument. A live birthed baby can’t survive without adults around to feed and change it either.
June 27, 20224 yr Just now, paco said: In the middle of an out of left field and semi incoherent rant did you just get the initials to Jesus Christ wrong? It's a George Carlin bit.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, paco said: In the middle of an out of left field and semi incoherent rant did you just get the initials to Jesus Christ wrong? I guess you're not a George Carlin fan. JC.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, Alphagrand said: People in Canada are out protesting that Roe vs Wade has been overturned in the US ...... even though in Canada it's legal at all stages of pregnancy (regardless of reason), and publicly funded as a medical procedure under the Health Care Act. These people really should have been aborted before they were born. I saw that too. Thought it was weird when american truckers copied the canadians and started their "convoy" to protest the non-existent vaccine mandates here, but this might be even dumber.
June 27, 20224 yr 3 minutes ago, pallidrone said: It's a George Carlin bit. Gotcha 2 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: I guess you're not a George Carlin fan. JC. I am. Just not expecting to read one in this thread at 4:30 on a Monday and it really didn't register. I forgot more of his bits than I remember. My mistake, carry on.
June 27, 20224 yr 3 minutes ago, paco said: Ok. Outside of a human, what else could grow from a zygote from a man and a woman? If we took a DNA sample of your zygote, genetically how different is it from you today? I'm no zygote expert but it isn't a term specific to humans as far as I am aware though one produced by humans would of course be one that could grow into a human being. The code is all in there sure but executing (software analogy) it takes some time prior to the data beginning to fill out.
June 27, 20224 yr 6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I'm no zygote expert but it isn't a term specific to humans as far as I am aware though It is not. It's a stage of life. 6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: though one produced by humans would of course be one that could grow into a human being. Not could. Would. The DNA is all there. (Unless you are talking thrive vs fail and not, say, the baby turning into a chicken) 6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The code is all in there sure but executing (software analogy) it takes some time prior to the data beginning to fill out. It's literally following the code step by step. If your argument is that "well, its still working on forming X", then I would argue "does a person who hasn't hit puberty yet not qualify?". We go through radical changes through the first 14-17 years of our lives. A.W. of course
June 27, 20224 yr 36 minutes ago, paco said: Not getting into details but we've personally seen it. Plus with the a-holes here, I don't feel like getting into a multipage debate on the word "thrive" only for to have bottom feeding tools like WGB to then hang on a single detail to autisticly comment on for 5 years. Anecdote not data. Will leave it at that
June 27, 20224 yr 16 minutes ago, Ipiggles said: SO how do you feel about Parents who kill their 2 Year old child? Should we just let them, because we do not think the same way as they do? Considering there is no ambiguity about whether a newborn is a human being, it's clearly murder. That you think this is some kind of argument is fascinating.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Paul852 said: That's nearly 6 months pregnant. Seems inhumane to suddenly change your mind at that point. I honestly thought abortion was one of the few things we had a pretty damn sane truce on. A fetus becomes a baby around 24 weeks. The no questions asked cutoff should be around 16-18 weeks with anything from 15-20 acceptable if you really want to tweak state to state. That's at least a month's cushion and at least another month of grey area to salt to taste with your prenatal infant rights morality meter.
June 27, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, paco said: It is not. It's a stage of life. yes, it is alive BUT not yet a viable human 1 minute ago, paco said: Not could. Would. The DNA is all there Plenty don't Guess you mean in the high probability that one develops then it WOULD end up being a human ; yes to that ; COULD still works as well as a term to describe that 1 minute ago, paco said: If your argument is that "well, its still working on forming X", then I would argue "does a person who hasn't hit puberty yet" not qualify. We go through radical changes through the first 14-17 years of our lives. A.W. of course This is where the discussion lies. When do we go from a living set of cells to an entity that should get the full legal coverage of a human being, unique person, etc.? I'm comfortable with saying 15 weeks is the limit and that medical improvement may drive that number down. Viability is a factor for how I think about it.
June 27, 20224 yr 21 minutes ago, paco said: Ok. Outside of a human, what else could grow from a zygote from a man and a woman? If we took a DNA sample of your zygote, genetically how different is it from you today? 20 minutes ago, binkybink77 said: If embryos were found in a Petri dish on another planet the headline would be "life found on x planet”. It’s not inorganic matter. It’s the first stage of development that maybe doesn’t have "personhood” yet but anyone arguing it’s not life at this point is just being a science denier. The same can be said about sperm or an egg alone. If either were found in a petri dish they'd be classified as life. By the broad definition being presented a sperm or unfertilized egg is a human being at an earlier stage of development. A zygote is at a later stage. But like an unfertilized egg or sperm, it still requires many additional steps before it's considered a conscious human infant. But scientifically it's rightly viewed as just one more step in the development of a fetus. Because of any step in the process fails .. if the sperm is inert or sterile, or the egg is defective, or it doesn't attach to the uterine lining, or any other number of steps, then it fails to develope. Calling it a person before consciousness isn't scientific or fact based, it's a feeling one has. As the father of three, I fully understand it. We had a Doppler and listened excitedly to the heartbeats of all of our kids long before the first ultrasound. But putting emotions aside, which is required for laws in a free and open society, it's clear that if nothing else there is no scientific or societal consensus on the status of a fetus in the first say 15 weeks. The only right thing to do in the face of that is to err to the side of individual choice and let each family unit make the decision that's right for them. The state should have no right to deny these choices based on the opinions of a minority (given that most believe abortion should be available at least through 15 weeks).
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