Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not really that accurate.   Hurts had 2 completions longer than 12 yards.   Mahomes had 8.  

2 of 18 is 11%.   8 of 30 is 27%.   That's dramatically more.

Beyond 12 yards...
Hurts was 2 of 2.  (1 of 1 from 12 - 20 yards).
Mahomes was 8 of 11.  (7 of 8 from 12 - 20 yards).

 

And this is what people are talking about with Hurts and his arm strength.   There's basically nothing in the intermediate zone of the field.   It's either deep (1 shot) or its short (12 yards or less).   Those intermediate throws require more arm strength, because you can't send a rainbow, you need to get it there while window is open.

It's a high level look, but shows where short and intermediate throws can be very productive and in some respects, how the passing chart can be a little misleading if you don't see the game situation.  I'll repeat it, Steichen's play calling and the game plan early on were not good at all.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts did decent with that Sunday... as long as the name on the back said "BROWN".

I had no issue with him force feeding Brown Sunday. Brown outmatched the DB on him every time it seemed, so keep throwing it at him until they adjust. 

I'd like to see it spread around a bit more, but for the situation of game 1, the Brown love was fine I thought

1 minute ago, UK Eagle said:

It's a high level look, but shows where short and intermediate throws can be very productive and in some respects, how the passing chart can be a little misleading if you don't see the game situation.  I'll repeat it, Steichen's play calling and the game plan early on were not good at all.

Except...Hurts was changing plays in the first Q a lot it looked like...so who knows what the game plan actually was? 

Hurts would have been the NFL MVP back in 1905. Back before this BS started 

https://www.livescience.com/7129-100-years-football-pass.html

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

I had no issue with him force feeding Brown Sunday. Brown outmatched the DB on him every time it seemed, so keep throwing it at him until they adjust. 

I'd like to see it spread around a bit more, but for the situation of game 1, the Brown love was fine I thought

Except...Hurts was changing plays in the first Q a lot it looked like...so who knows what the game plan actually was? 

But even the play changes should be in the game plan.  What the play was changed to was no better than the original call at some points. Hurts has to better, but so does the play calling and game planning.

1 minute ago, UK Eagle said:

But even the play changes should be in the game plan.  What the play was changed to was no better than the original call at some points. Hurts has to better, but so does the play calling and game planning.

How do we know what the original call was if he audibled out of it?

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I had no issue with him force feeding Brown Sunday. Brown outmatched the DB on him every time it seemed, so keep throwing it at him until they adjust. 

I'd like to see it spread around a bit more, but for the situation of game 1, the Brown love was fine I thought

Except...Hurts was changing plays in the first Q a lot it looked like...so who knows what the game plan actually was? 

I agree with this... up to a point.   Force feeding one guy (who just happens to be your BFF) can lead to other guys getting pissed off about being ignored when they are repeatedly open, used to being targeted more, and the QB chooses to run it himself rather than find the open guy.

It won't be a problem, until it becomes a problem, but the seeds are already in place.  We've seen Smith demonstrably upset on the field/sidelines before due to being open and not getting the ball.  Something needs to be done to address it while it is still in that early stage.  We don't need anonymous reports, demonstrations on the sidelines and in fighting.  We've been there and done that.

 

As for the last point... there were a lot of calls made at the LOS by Hurts.  I doubt they were all just protection calls.  Does he even have the authority to make those calls, or is that still on Kelce?

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I agree with this... up to a point.   Force feeding one guy (who just happens to be your BFF) can lead to other guys getting pissed off about being ignored when they are repeatedly open, used to being targeted more, and the QB chooses to run it himself rather than find the open guy.

It won't be a problem, until it becomes a problem, but the seeds are already in place.  We've seen Smith demonstrably upset on the field/sidelines before due to being open and not getting the ball.  Something needs to be done to address it while it is still in that early stage.  We don't need anonymous reports, demonstrations on the sidelines and in fighting.  We've been there and done that.

 

As for the last point... there were a lot of calls made at the LOS by Hurts.  I doubt they were all just protection calls.  Does he even have the authority to make those calls, or is that still on Kelce?

I agree it can become an issue. And it certainly can't be repeated week after week. One, for the reasons you mention, but two, you'd have to think other teams will take away Brown and make Hurts go elsewhere. One week, I'm ok with it. If it happens again this week, we may have a bigger problem. 

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

I agree it can become an issue. And it certainly can't be repeated week after week. One, for the reasons you mention, but two, you'd have to think other teams will take away Brown and make Hurts go elsewhere. One week, I'm ok with it. If it happens again this week, we may have a bigger problem. 

Agreed.  No cause for concern, yet.    But just a few years ago, there was all kinds of belly aching about how many targets Ertz was getting.  And he wasn't getting as many disproportionately as Brown did on Sunday.   We'll see how this progresses.    But, the word out of camp was about how many targets were going to Brown.  And in the only PS action there was... apparently there was a concentrated effort NOT to go to Brown.   Then, in the first game... bam, all Brown, all the time.   

I get targeting your big offseason acquisition and $100M man.  It only makes sense, especially as effective as it was on Sunday.  But, moving forward, there needs to be a concerted effort to be more efficient at spreading the ball around a bit more, for a ton of reasons, not the least of which is... the offense would be more productive with more receivers being involved.   Even back when the GOAT was playing, the TEs, RBs and even the other WRs got significant targets... even in a less pass happy era.

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

How do we know what the original call was if he audibled out of it?

Presumably, he or Kelce felt it wouldn't work.  I am not slupring on Hurts here as there were plays that a QB who had a good feel for the pocket and eyes up, would have made a better job of executing the game plan.  However, I do think the game plan etc were not good and they were too slow to adjust with a QB who got spooked and needed calming down.

Also, if you know Hurts won't get to read 3, then try and a different ethos or coach him harder.  No point in having a deep WR corp and elite TE if even people at home can see what will happen.

51 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You know who didn't look rusty at all on Sunday?   Kansas City.  Interestingly enough, they didn't punt on the PS.   Tampa looked pretty good too, and they also didn't punt on the preseason.  They didn't convert in the RZ, but other than that, they more than handled their business.  

Both of those teams did the same last year as well...interesting.

 

15 hours ago, downundermike said:

We are talking about signing players off practice squads.  Waivers do not apply.

Which is what I said.

I just don't get it.  Nothing about that game should have raised their bar.  It made me worry that Hurts is A. going to get himself killed out there and B. never throw to anyone not named AJ Brown.  

Just now, bpac55 said:

I just don't get it.  Nothing about that game should have raised their bar.  It made me worry that Hurts is A. going to get himself killed out there and B. never throw to anyone not named AJ Brown.  

Its just woke media agenda.

5 minutes ago, dawkdaballhawk said:

Do we know what kind of coverages AJ was getting, if Smitty/Quez kept him from being bracketed that’s something… if not, they may get more opportunities. This is definitely the half full outlook, but it’s only been one game.

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I just don't get it.  Nothing about that game should have raised their bar.  It made me worry that Hurts is A. going to get himself killed out there and B. never throw to anyone not named AJ Brown.  

It might have actually lowered the bar considering how poorly the defense played late.   The team nearly blew a 2nd half 17 point lead.  To me, that game made the defense a bigger concern, as opposed to the optimism about the defense due to all the flex tape acquisitions that Howie made this offseason.  Maybe they need time to gel together... but, it would have been nice to get some of that gelling out of the way in the PS.   And yes, I'll keep bringing it up if the excuse for poor play is that they aren't used to each other yet.   The only player that was newly acquired and should have any excuse is CGJ.  The rest were all in place for the entire offseason, but they routinely cut practices short, chose not to be on the field together and punted almost entirely on the PS reps that would have been available.   The result?   Healthy, unprepared team entering week 1.  Is that good?  Time will tell.

11 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I just don't get it.  Nothing about that game should have raised their bar.  It made me worry that Hurts is A. going to get himself killed out there and B. never throw to anyone not named AJ Brown.  

We beat a 3-win team by 3 points; what's not to get excited about??  It was a win, on the road, in Week 1 where a lot of favorites crapped the bed.  That's the good news.

I was listening to NFL Radio last night and the hosts were downplaying the Vikings win over the Packers and talking about how much more difficult their game against the Eagles was going to be.  I wish I shared their optimism.

I am more concerned about the defense than Hurts. But Im more confident in the D improving than I am in Hurts.

Hurts was a god awful QB in that game. But he was a better player than most of the defenders on detroit's defense. 

There will be teams who can exploit his tunnel vision, poor decision making, inability to read defenses, and propensity to run (often way too soon). But even against good teams this offense has enough talent to put up 20 points. More against bad teams.

This defense has the talent to hold teams to 20 or less. It needs to start doing that. And I have more confidence in that happening, than I have in Hurts suddenly being able to put up 27+ points against good teams.

 

We know Hurts isnt the answer. We need our defense to help make up for his deficiency if we are to have a successful season.

Just to cycle back to the Mahomes depth of target vs. Hurts' depth of target discussion...  The mean value is often what is reported for 'average', but there are two other measures of 'average' that are often overlooked, but are frankly more meaningful in a lot of cases.  Those values aren't skewed by a single outlier, unlike the mean.

Mahomes had 39 pass attempts.  The median distance was 8 yards down field.
Hurts had 32 pass attempts.  The median distance was 4 yards down field.

Mahomes' mode distance was 10 yards +/- a 1/2 yard.   (5 attempts)
Hurts' mode distance was 0 yards +/- 1/2 of the LOS. (7 attempts)

 

Now, the Air Yards completed value might look at little closer, because Hurts hit on the 55 yarder to Brown.  And Mahomes missed on his two deepest throws of 35 and 36 yards.  But, I would say that there was more concern from the Cardinals about being beat deeper than the Lions had versus Hurts.    And because so many throws from Hurts are so close to the LOS, teams are going to be very comfortable crowding the LOS, keeping a safety either in the box, or very close.  One deep throw isn't going to be enough to pull them back.  He's going to have to do that consistently to back them off.   And he's going to need to push the ball down field more to other receivers as well to get them to really respect him as a passer.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

I am more concerned about the defense than Hurts. But Im more confident in the D improving than I am in Hurts.

Hurts was a god awful QB in that game. But he was a better player than most of the defenders on detroit's defense. 

There will be teams who can exploit his tunnel vision, poor decision making, inability to read defenses, and propensity to run (often way too soon). But even against good teams this offense has enough talent to put up 20 points. More against bad teams.

This defense has the talent to hold teams to 20 or less. It needs to start doing that. And I have more confidence in that happening, than I have in Hurts suddenly being able to put up 27+ points against good teams.

 

We know Hurts isnt the answer. We need our defense to help make up for his deficiency if we are to have a successful season.

I would agree with that.  He out athletic'ed them.  He didn't out-QB them.   And that's kind of how he got to where he is.  At Alabama, he was a far super athlete than most of the people he faced... until the NC game.  Then Alabama found themselves in a hole and had to pass to come back.  So, he was benched.  As long as he could front run, his style works, as the running fits the game plan and shortens the clock.   And then he went to Oklahoma and the caliber of athlete dropped even further from that of SEC opponents.  And he out-athleted them.   In the NFL, he's still a far better athlete than most of the people trying to tackle him, so he can rely on that athleticism to get him out of trouble.  But, there's a shelf-life to that style.   He needs to become more than an athlete, and it doesn't seem like the coaches want to really force him into that.  So, the idea put forth by @we_gotta_believe seems to be a very plausible explanation.   They are using him to win as much as they can, not worrying about his limitations, but working to exploit his strengths as much as possible... and they will replace him with another QB that can actually QB at the earliest possible time.  If Hurts and Minshew were forced to play the exact same style, inside the pocket and be passers, I have no doubt that Minshew would be the better option.  But, if you let Hurts 'get freaky'... Hurts is going to 'make more plays' than Minshew and he's going to get the edge.  

Would love if Zech could cover WRs like he covers kicks.

18 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Superbowl bound now.

I've seen Hurts play like a real QB at times. Not consistently, obviously, and I don't believe we'll ever see it consistently, but I can at least talk myself into thinking he could get hot during a playoff run because he's shown flashes.

I have zero faith in Gannon. None. He's shown nothing. He's the biggest question mark on the team BY FAR despite having the personnel to be a top 10 unit.

3 days now removed from a win where Hurts played very well and was a major reason for the win and the blog is now proclaiming that he was a "God awful QB" in the game. 

 

This might just be the most detached from reality echo chamber that you can view on the internet right now.