8 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Looks like Dicker will wear 13. It was the only option, other than 9 and 12, which they never give out. 

John Holmes’ old number ….

3 hours ago, downundermike said:

Who Sold RTK the shrooms ??

You need shrooms?  

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He's on pace for something like 1,700+ yards.  I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface yet too of what he can do.  He's due for taking a slant 60+ yards for a TD one of these games.  

Big fan.  He is as close to what I consider a prototypical great WR, besides say, TO without the mental baggage (not making fun as I think he carries a lot around in his head).  Big, strong, creates separation even where none exists, high points so well and has pretty terrific hands and ability to get YAC. 

9 hours ago, downundermike said:

You don't know what Genesis means ????

 

The titans are crazy for not paying Brown. He’s elite and he can still get better. 

1 hour ago, jamiller said:

Big fan.  He is as close to what I consider a prototypical great WR, besides say, TO without the mental baggage (not making fun as I think he carries a lot around in his head).  Big, strong, creates separation even where none exists, high points so well and has pretty terrific hands and ability to get YAC. 

Even TO wasn’t a prototypical WR in my view. Don’t get me wrong, he had a great skill set and is clearly one of the great playmakers at the position the NFL has ever seen. But he didn’t have the best hands and he wasn’t prototypically fast.

When I think of the prototypical WR, it’s Megatron. Literally no weakness. Huge, fast, acrobatic, great hands.

Brown has been excellent though. Absolutely. As good as he’s been, it does feel like there are some things to come from him. He hasn’t really had those WOW plays where he turns a nice chunk play into a TD or a short gain into 40+ yards.

1 minute ago, WentzFan11 said:

The titans are crazy for not paying Brown. He’s elite and he can still get better. 

That’s been my biggest red flag of this move. Vrabel obviously was upset about it, so why were the FO personnel on the Titans not willing to go past $17APY? Feels too good to be true. 

1 hour ago, TEW said:

Even TO wasn’t a prototypical WR in my view. Don’t get me wrong, he had a great skill set and is clearly one of the great playmakers at the position the NFL has ever seen. But he didn’t have the best hands and he wasn’t prototypically fast.

When I think of the prototypical WR, it’s Megatron. Literally no weakness. Huge, fast, acrobatic, great hands.

Brown has been excellent though. Absolutely. As good as he’s been, it does feel like there are some things to come from him. He hasn’t really had those WOW plays where he turns a nice chunk play into a TD or a short gain into 40+ yards.

Johnson was amazing.  What a what if player.  Unreal.  

--

Someone else just said something about AJ busting a 40-yard slant.   Imma bet on it.  

--

@LeanMeanGM

Would you please change my bonus prediction from two D turnovers to a 40 yarder for AJB.  Thx. 

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Even TO wasn’t a prototypical WR in my view. Don’t get me wrong, he had a great skill set and is clearly one of the great playmakers at the position the NFL has ever seen. But he didn’t have the best hands and he wasn’t prototypically fast.

When I think of the prototypical WR, it’s Megatron. Literally no weakness. Huge, fast, acrobatic, great hands.

Brown has been excellent though. Absolutely. As good as he’s been, it does feel like there are some things to come from him. He hasn’t really had those WOW plays where he turns a nice chunk play into a TD or a short gain into 40+ yards.

TO was deceptively fast. He could pull away from guys with ease. His biggest knock (aside from the mental stuff) was he would sometimes alligator arm passes

3 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That’s been my biggest red flag of this move. Vrabel obviously was upset about it, so why were the FO personnel on the Titans not willing to go past $17APY? Feels too good to be true. 

I’d think he may be difficult to deal with, his twitter messages suggest that too.

Also believe it will never be an issue for us with Hurts at the helm.

2 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

TO was deceptively fast. He could pull away from guys with ease. His biggest knock (aside from the mental stuff) was he would sometimes alligator arm passes

TO would drop easy passes that most great WRs would never drop. Call it lack of concentration, trying to make a move before he secured the ball, alligator arms, whatever… It was a weakness of his.

Speed wise, TO wasn’t bad. He could get deep. He had a long stride. But he wasn’t fast. He wasn’t pulling away from people like Moss or Johnson. No one as tall as those guys should have been that fast. And Johnson with that strength and bulk yet grace and control… what an unbelievable talent he was. 

2 hours ago, Infam said:

Also believe it will never be an issue for us with Hurts at the helm.

Yeah, friends who are divas could never have things go wrong 

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Even TO wasn’t a prototypical WR in my view. Don’t get me wrong, he had a great skill set and is clearly one of the great playmakers at the position the NFL has ever seen. But he didn’t have the best hands and he wasn’t prototypically fast.

When I think of the prototypical WR, it’s Megatron. Literally no weakness. Huge, fast, acrobatic, great hands.

Brown has been excellent though. Absolutely. As good as he’s been, it does feel like there are some things to come from him. He hasn’t really had those WOW plays where he turns a nice chunk play into a TD or a short gain into 40+ yards.

I get what you're saying, but Megatron is 1 of 1. We may never seen another WR like him.

Prototype should be more attainable.

23 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I've been thinking about that too, at least as it pertains to Hurts.  So, maybe that's the way forward for teams that don't find that uber-talented QB.  And they use the money saved to build up the rest of the roster.   

One thing I do know... teams that invest heavily for mediocrity at the QB position pretty much mire themselves collectively in mediocrity for the life of that contract (i.e. Minnesota Vikings).  

And maybe that's this team's idea with Hurts too.  I don't know.  I am hoping not and hoping that he can develop into more and be a long term answer.  I just believe that this style will ultimately be a limited shelf life and won't last for very long at all, but just past the time that the monetary commitment is required.  Tough choices coming if he can't get smarter about hits.

I think this is essentially what they meant when they said they wanted to be a "Qb factory".  It was a stupid comment to say to the world as it reeks of arrogance, but the logic behind it is not bad (the way I see it anyway)....though it may have been misunderstood.  It was really the only bright side I saw to the Hurts pick at the time - that they just got someone that has the potential to return more value in the future. 

Every team values the QB position as the number 1 priority, but not every team values depth at the position.  I would say most teams are probably overpaying their QB relative to what they bring to the table.  There are exceptions, but the money has become so crazy for QBs.  Everytime a team decides it has their guy, or at least feels they just can't do better (which may be the case more often than not), they give him the big deal.  After signing that QB to a big second contract, 30 of 32 GMs would then never consider selecting another QB in the top part of the 2nd round the very next draft.  Howie did.  The other I can picture doing this is Belicheck (if Kraft would've let him).  Brady's great, but he was underpaid relative to his peers for several years in NE and I'm sure that helped the quality of the rest of his team. 

This philosophy becomes much more logical in the case of running QBs, like you say.  If I were the GM, I would find it very difficult to give Lamar, or Hurts big second deals.  I'd give one to Mahomes or Burrow in a heartbeat.  I am all for keeping the QB factory rolling.  Until you have someone special, keeping the payroll at the QB position in check is what helps that 2nd or 3rd round QB appear to look like a 'steal' because of the roster support he has.  You then get more for him in return - rinse and repeat.

The obvious downside to this is the fanbase and their knack for becoming emotionally attached to the rising young star.  Which is why you don't advertise the fact that your desire is to be a QB factory.

6 minutes ago, McMVP said:

I think this is essentially what they meant when they said they wanted to be a "Qb factory".  It was a stupid comment to say to the world as it reeks of arrogance, but the logic behind it is not bad (the way I see it anyway)....though it may have been misunderstood.  It was really the only bright side I saw to the Hurts pick at the time - that they just got someone that has the potential to return more value in the future. 

Every team values the QB position as the number 1 priority, but not every team values depth at the position.  I would say most teams are probably overpaying their QB relative to what they bring to the table.  There are exceptions, but the money has become so crazy for QBs.  Everytime a team decides it has their guy, or at least feels they just can't do better (which may be the case more often than not), they give him the big deal.  After signing that QB to a big second contract, 30 of 32 GMs would then never consider selecting another QB in the top part of the 2nd round the very next draft.  Howie did.  The other I can picture doing this is Belicheck (if Kraft would've let him).  Brady's great, but he was underpaid relative to his peers for several years in NE and I'm sure that helped the quality of the rest of his team. 

This philosophy becomes much more logical in the case of running QBs, like you say.  If I were the GM, I would find it very difficult to give Lamar, or Hurts big second deals.  I'd give one to Mahomes or Burrow in a heartbeat.  I am all for keeping the QB factory rolling.  Until you have someone special, keeping the payroll at the QB position in check is what helps that 2nd or 3rd round QB appear to look like a 'steal' because of the roster support he has.  You then get more for him in return - rinse and repeat.

The obvious downside to this is the fanbase and their knack for becoming emotionally attached to the rising young star.  Which is why you don't advertise the fact that your desire is to be a QB factory.

Interesting perspective.  I think the bigger downside is the roster's attachment with the rising young star QB.  

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Interesting perspective.  I think the bigger downside is the roster's attachment with the rising young star QB.  

Yes...that too.  But if the philosophy creates a long standing winning culture, it would at least be understood.  I could be wrong

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, friends who are divas could never have things go wrong 

Wouldn’t say that in general but I really doubt that’s where this is heading.

32 minutes ago, McMVP said:

This philosophy becomes much more logical in the case of running QBs, like you say.  If I were the GM, I would find it very difficult to give Lamar, or Hurts big second deals.  I'd give one to Mahomes or Burrow in a heartbeat.  I am all for keeping the QB factory rolling.  Until you have someone special, keeping the payroll at the QB position in check is what helps that 2nd or 3rd round QB appear to look like a 'steal' because of the roster support he has.  You then get more for him in return - rinse and repeat.

I think Hurts was meant to be a backup, and to me that makes a lot of sense too.

The contracts for a backup still are significant, a good backup easily will cost you 6-10M a year soon, if it’s not there already. That’s money that could well be spent somewhere else. Let alone that these backups usually are somewhat failed and have little perspective moving forward, while you may strike on your drafted backup (like we did with Hurts). 
Chances are that use of a pick nets you a better backup when you need one (especially for a few weeks) at a much lower price tag.

Even if he never breaks out that seems like a sound investment of a pick to me.

3 minutes ago, Infam said:

I think Hurts was meant to be a backup, and to me that makes a lot of sense too.

The contracts for a backup still are significant, a good backup easily will cost you 6-10M a year soon, if it’s not there already. That’s money that could well be spent somewhere else. Let alone that these backups usually are somewhat failed and have little perspective moving forward, while you may strike on your drafted backup (like we did with Hurts). 
Chances are that use of a pick nets you a better backup when you need one (especially for a few weeks) at a much lower price tag.

Even if he never breaks out that seems like a sound investment of a pick to me.

But how much is the cost of a backup QB relative to a starter at other positions? We have one of the league’s best backup QBs in Minshew. He cost us peanuts. 

When we first drafted Hurts, I tried to look at it from the Eagles’ perspective, and it was hard to rationalize if they saw him as a true backup. I thought @TEW brought up a smart point at the time (even if I still disagreed with the resource allocation) that the value over replacement of a good backup QB vs an average one could easily be worth 2-3 wins in case of an extended absence, which is more valuable than a starting DE or corner.

Of course the downside is you could have a backup QB that rarely plays so you see minimal return on investment, making his VORP almost meaningless.

 

3 hours ago, TEW said:

TO would drop easy passes that most great WRs would never drop. Call it lack of concentration, trying to make a move before he secured the ball, alligator arms, whatever… It was a weakness of his.

Speed wise, TO wasn’t bad. He could get deep. He had a long stride. But he wasn’t fast. He wasn’t pulling away from people like Moss or Johnson. No one as tall as those guys should have been that fast. And Johnson with that strength and bulk yet grace and control… what an unbelievable talent he was. 

I think of TO as a top 5 all time WR. I think you’re overstating his drop issues and under stating his speed

Games I think will be good ones today

TCU/Kansas 

USC/Wash State

Utah/UCLA

3 of my  5 fav QBs play in those games

i rank them

Cam Ward

Will Levis

Cam Rising

Will Rogers 

Jalon Daniels 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-jalen-hurts-wasnt-a-good-pick-by-the-philadelphia-eagles-he-was-a-great-one

This was the day after the 2020 draft.

Essentially, unless you already have elite level QB play, QB picks should offer surplus value.

2 hours ago, RLC said:

I get what you're saying, but Megatron is 1 of 1. We may never seen another WR like him.

Prototype should be more attainable.

I mean, he’s the best example and definitely one of the most extreme outliers, but there have been several in that line of H/W/S over recent years: Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas come to mind.

47 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I think of TO as a top 5 all time WR. I think you’re overstating his drop issues and under stating his speed

He’s definitely up there. However, he was a unique player and not what I would call prototypical. He was an unbelievable playmaker, but truly, he had some deficiencies in a way guys like Moss and Megatron did not.

2 hours ago, McMVP said:

Yes...that too.  But if the philosophy creates a long standing winning culture, it would at least be understood.  I could be wrong

Plus then you can pay stars at the other positions. Winning and money helps ones mood