GDT: Philadelphia Eagles @ Washington Commanders, 9-25-22, 1PM EST

[vaff]

 

[Next_Up]

22 minutes ago, vaff said:

 

It's the deep drop. Wentz doesn't even use the pocket. It also appears that he learns about as well as he did in Philly

[vaff]

21 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

It's the deep drop. Wentz doesn't even use the pocket. It also appears that he learns about as well as he did in Philly

Yeah. We’re very fortunate the guy was so adamant about getting traded. He never learns. Makes the same mistakes over and over again.

[EazyEaglez]

6 hours ago, Next_Up said:

It's the deep drop. Wentz doesn't even use the pocket. It also appears that he learns about as well as he did in Philly

I saw a play I believe it was against Detroit where Carson stepped up in the pocket to avoid a rush, but proceeded to roll to his left and back up right into the guy he just stepped up in the pocket for. 🤦‍♂️ Now how can something like that be blamed on the line? 

[vaff]

21 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I saw a play I believe it was against Detroit where Carson stepped up in the pocket to avoid a rush, but proceeded to roll to his left and back up right into the guy he just stepped up in the pocket for. 🤦‍♂️ Now how can something like that be blamed on the line? 

That’s what he does. And makes it even worse by trying ridiculous hero plays like left handed passes.

[EazyEaglez]

25 minutes ago, vaff said:

That’s what he does. And makes it even worse by trying ridiculous hero plays like left handed passes.

It’s just contrasting to see these two quarterbacks play. You see Jalen out there quickly getting rid of the football, getting down when pressure is coming from behind, sliding, throwing it out of bounds, and doing whatever he can to avoid the big hit while still running the ball ten or more times. The other guy just holds and holds that ball and despite how big he is just keeps fumbling. People lauded his seven touchdowns while ignoring his five turnovers. For every play that wows you there are several plays that are complete drive killers. Like I tell all my friends who support the Commanders. You are gonna love Carson Wentz until you won’t anymore. 

[Talonblood]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:21 PM, EazyEaglez said:

This had to have been the worst possible outcomes for all the beanbaggers. Not only did their god look like he’s reverting back to the 2020 version of himself, but the guy who took his job looks like he’s on his way to becoming an MVP candidate. They’re beside themselves these days. 
 

On a side note does some of you still want Wilson, his big contract, and three points of first half football? 

I used to back Wentz 100%. Until HE turned his back on Philadelphia. I can't see how ANY Philadelphia Eagles fans can back someone who did that to this city, fans, org.... something just wrong there, just off....

[Infam]

6 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s just contrasting to see these two quarterbacks play. You see Jalen out there quickly getting rid of the football, getting down when pressure is coming from behind, sliding, throwing it out of bounds, and doing whatever he can to avoid the big hit while still running the ball ten or more times. The other guy just holds and holds that ball and despite how big he is just keeps fumbling. People lauded his seven touchdowns while ignoring his five turnovers. For every play that wows you there are several plays that are complete drive killers. Like I tell all my friends who support the Commanders. You are gonna love Carson Wentz until you won’t anymore. 

It‘s true more often than not. But I‘ve seen Hurts take hits to gain a few extra yards several times now and it‘s scary. Yes he‘s tough, yes so far these hits didn‘t do real damage.. but he is young and wants to be a hero at times too.

Maybe we have to accept that that‘s how it is. But it is scary. I‘d rather he only does that when he really needs to for the win -and not more.

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, Infam said:

It‘s true more often than not. But I‘ve seen Hurts take hits to gain a few extra yards several times now and it‘s scary. Yes he‘s tough, yes so far these hits didn‘t do real damage.. but he is young and wants to be a hero at times too.

Maybe we have to accept that that‘s how it is. But it is scary. I‘d rather he only does that when he really needs to for the win -and not more.

There’s always some risks to the game and guys will take shots. Foles used to take some nasty hits in the pocket and it often would shorten his season. Even during the 2018 season he got knocked out of the Washington game. Hurts is going to get hit. He might lose time to injury but that’s part of the game. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s more high risk. I’ve been watching all these passer quarterbacks taking these early injuries this season yet no one brings that up. 

[EazyEaglez]

9 hours ago, Talonblood said:

I used to back Wentz 100%. Until HE turned his back on Philadelphia. I can't see how ANY Philadelphia Eagles fans can back someone who did that to this city, fans, org.... something just wrong there, just off....

Something about his game just makes people think they’re seeing greatness at all times, but people can’t let go of his contribution to that 2017 season. People let go of Nick Foles quicker than they did Carson. People hold Carson’s contributions higher than Nick’s and many of the people directly responsible for that victory like Doug. People were saying Carson had no weapons and no line in 2018 when he came back and in 2019 when all those players won the bowl and won playoff games. People ignored all the talk of how Carson was acting behind the scenes even though Carson himself admitted to not being a good teammate. People ignored the bad mechanics and everything else for this guy. People are still completely against Hurts to this day for this guy. Perhaps some of these guys need to realize that they aren’t Eagles fans, but Carson fans. 

[brkmsn]

9 hours ago, Talonblood said:

I used to back Wentz 100%. Until HE turned his back on Philadelphia. I can't see how ANY Philadelphia Eagles fans can back someone who did that to this city, fans, org.... something just wrong there, just off....

I don't think he ever turned his back on Philadelphia. I think he lost faith in those within the organization that showed no faith in him. When he was benched, the team was still very much in position to win the division. Yet, they never gave him one chance to redeem himself after the so-called benching. He never said an ill word about teammates, fans, the city, etc...

I'm not sure why I'm supposed to hate him now as a person. 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think he ever turned his back on Philadelphia. I think he lost faith in those within the organization that showed no faith in him. When he was benched, the team was still very much in position to win the division.

He did nothing to deserve the chance to continue to lead the team. He was one of the worst QBs in the league that year. The team made the call knowing they had a chance to make the play offs and they had to go a different direction.

[Talonblood]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Something about his game just makes people think they’re seeing greatness at all times, but people can’t let go of his contribution to that 2017 season. People let go of Nick Foles quicker than they did Carson. People hold Carson’s contributions higher than Nick’s and many of the people directly responsible for that victory like Doug. People were saying Carson had no weapons and no line in 2018 when he came back and in 2019 when all those players won the bowl and won playoff games. People ignored all the talk of how Carson was acting behind the scenes even though Carson himself admitted to not being a good teammate. People ignored the bad mechanics and everything else for this guy. People are still completely against Hurts to this day for this guy. Perhaps some of these guys need to realize that they aren’t Eagles fans, but Carson fans. 

Good points. I was against Hurts because he sucked for awhile, and I was backing Wentz when Hurts 1st arrived. Then, from multiple good sources, word was getting out that Wentz was a major D_bag and wanted out of Philly. He turned his back on Philly, and I no longer backed him- he was now the enemy. Period.  Then, as far as Hurts goes, all I wanted was improvement from him. So last year, Hurts pissed me off, but I decided he needed a LITTLE more time. I gave him until the Steelers game this year, to back up the hype I was seeing from him and the Philly media. He HAS shown the improvement I was looking for these last few games. As far as Wentz goes.... f him.

[Talonblood]

49 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think he ever turned his back on Philadelphia. I think he lost faith in those within the organization that showed no faith in him. When he was benched, the team was still very much in position to win the division. Yet, they never gave him one chance to redeem himself after the so-called benching. He never said an ill word about teammates, fans, the city, etc...

I'm not sure why I'm supposed to hate him now as a person. 

 

Because he is an entitled a hole as a person, that's why.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think he ever turned his back on Philadelphia. I think he lost faith in those within the organization that showed no faith in him. When he was benched, the team was still very much in position to win the division. Yet, they never gave him one chance to redeem himself after the so-called benching. He never said an ill word about teammates, fans, the city, etc...

I'm not sure why I'm supposed to hate him now as a person. 

 

Ben Simmons thinks he didn't turn his back on Philly too. He at least said that and he's completely delusional. Saying you don't wish to play for a place is turning their back on them. Claiming not to trust the organization and demanding to be traded (as soon as the benching depending on the source) is him turning his back on them. The Eagles didn't send Wentz away and frankly they did him a solid by trading him exactly where he wanted to go, rather Carson Wentz requested to leave. Furthermore this photo means nothing. It's also well documented that Wentz spent little to no time even talking to Jalen when they were teammates. There relationship is about as brief as this photo.  

[brkmsn]

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He did nothing to deserve the chance to continue to lead the team. He was one of the worst QBs in the league that year. The team made the call knowing they had a chance to make the play offs and they had to go a different direction.

There were a lot of other players on that team that did absolutely nothing to right the ship. Benching Wentz didn't gain us anything in 2020. In 2019, the team struggled quite a bit also due to injuries and inconsistency. But when December came around and we needed to win out to make the postseason, Wentz carried the offense and got the job done. At the time of Wentz' "benching," I didn't support the idea. I knew he was having a terrible season, but believed such a move would ultimately lead to what we saw happen. 

The rookie version of Hurts didn't gain us a higher win rate as we still lost 3 out of our final 4 games.

Here's how I "saw things." Since 2017, this team was all about analytics, being aggressive and making gutsy decisions. Wentz embodied our team's philosophy. In the following seasons when Wentz was struggling, he always admitted he needed to play better or do a better job. But he also stated he wasn't going to change who he was. I think that statement was misconstrued by angry fans. Wentz was basically saying he wasn't going to play scared --- that he would still attempt to extend plays and not give up --- that when he had to stand in the pocket and take a hit or scramble and dive into contact to get a first down, that he would give everything he had. He was going to continue to be aggressive. Fast forward to 2020 and all of a sudden, our philosophy of taking chances and being aggressive was being contested by the law of averages. Things weren't going our way. I strongly believe Doug was counting on Wentz to bail out the struggling offense through "hero ball." It just never happened. The only play-maker that stepped up offensively all year was Fulgham who was quickly shown the door. 

I really like Doug as a person and appreciate everything he did to help us win it all. But my biggest gripe with him is that after benching Wentz (which I never supported), he never allowed Wentz a chance to grow as a player and learn from the benching. Either this was Doug's decision to scapegoat Wentz or he allowed the FO to dictate who his starter would be. Either way, it didn't increase his job security. If he allowed the FO to force the call, then he allowed them to sabotage his job with the team. If you are going to get fired, get fired doing what you think should be done. If this was Doug's call, I think it was gutless which is the opposite of what I thought he was. 

In the end, however, Hurts is our guy now. The past is the past. I've thrown my support at Hurts 100%. I don't hate Wentz. You guys can do you, but I'll make my own decisions. As of this season, we clearly have the better QB. 

[vaff]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

There were a lot of other players on that team that did absolutely nothing to right the ship. Benching Wentz didn't gain us anything in 2020. In 2019, the team struggled quite a bit also due to injuries and inconsistency. But when December came around and we needed to win out to make the postseason, Wentz carried the offense and got the job done. At the time of Wentz' "benching," I didn't support the idea. I knew he was having a terrible season, but believed such a move would ultimately lead to what we saw happen. 

The rookie version of Hurts didn't gain us a higher win rate as we still lost 3 out of our final 4 games.

Here's how I "saw things." Since 2017, this team was all about analytics, being aggressive and making gutsy decisions. Wentz embodied our team's philosophy. In the following seasons when Wentz was struggling, he always admitted he needed to play better or do a better job. But he also stated he wasn't going to change who he was. I think that statement was misconstrued by angry fans. Wentz was basically saying he wasn't going to play scared --- that he would still attempt to extend plays and not give up --- that when he had to stand in the pocket and take a hit or scramble and dive into contact to get a first down, that he would give everything he had. He was going to continue to be aggressive. Fast forward to 2020 and all of a sudden, our philosophy of taking chances and being aggressive was being contested by the law of averages. Things weren't going our way. I strongly believe Doug was counting on Wentz to bail out the struggling offense through "hero ball." It just never happened. The only play-maker that stepped up offensively all year was Fulgham who was quickly shown the door. 

I really like Doug as a person and appreciate everything he did to help us win it all. But my biggest gripe with him is that after benching Wentz (which I never supported), he never allowed Wentz a chance to grow as a player and learn from the benching. Either this was Doug's decision to scapegoat Wentz or he allowed the FO to dictate who his starter would be. Either way, it didn't increase his job security. If he allowed the FO to force the call, then he allowed them to sabotage his job with the team. If you are going to get fired, get fired doing what you think should be done. If this was Doug's call, I think it was gutless which is the opposite of what I thought he was. 

In the end, however, Hurts is our guy now. The past is the past. I've thrown my support at Hurts 100%. I don't hate Wentz. You guys can do you, but I'll make my own decisions. As of this season, we clearly have the better QB. 

In 2020, Wentz was one of, if not the absolute worst starting QB in the NFL. He should have been benched way earlier than he actually was. And as soon as he was rightfully benched, he gave up on the team. He’s even admitted that it was during the game against the Packers when he was benched, that he started thinking about wanting out of Philly. 

[brkmsn]

36 minutes ago, vaff said:

In 2020, Wentz was one of, if not the absolute worst starting QB in the NFL. He should have been benched way earlier than he actually was. And as soon as he was rightfully benched, he gave up on the team. He’s even admitted that it was during the game against the Packers when he was benched, that he started thinking about wanting out of Philly. 

Why do you think he went from one of the best (2017) to one of the worst (2020)? 

As far as anything he might have said (I don't follow whatever he is saying these days), are you telling me that if you had a position of leadership in a company and they demoted you, you wouldn't immediately start thinking about wanting out? I mean, that's only natural. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I knew he was having a terrible season, but believed such a move would ultimately lead to what we saw happen. 

I mean look I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said. I don't actually hate Wentz myself. I think he's a flawed player and I don't like how he seemed to handle his benching but I don't hate him. But the team in the end made the right decision. For 3 years following the SB victory they backed Wentz and he didn't deliver. Ok in 2020 he dragged them in to the play offs but what about 2019? And in 2018 too.

[judunno]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:07 AM, EazyEaglez said:

Biggest miracle is Howie got a first out of him, but truly it’s all thanks to Wentz for wanting out. It’s thanks to Carson’s durability issues that the Eagles drafted Hurts in the first place. All of this is thanks to Carson. 

Don't forget to thank Carson for the Legend of Nicholas Edward Foles.

[vaff]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Why do you think he went from one of the best (2017) to one of the worst (2020)? 

As far as anything he might have said (I don't follow whatever he is saying these days), are you telling me that if you had a position of leadership in a company and they demoted you, you wouldn't immediately start thinking about wanting out? I mean, that's only natural. 

To answer your first question: several injuries and a refusal to learn and adapt.

He was rightfully benched. I don’t understand how anyone can disagree with that. He was absolutely horrendous that season. And then Hurts came in and gave the team some life. Still, the Eagles clearly planned to make Wentz the starter again in 2021. But he couldn’t handle the fact that he got benched for his poor play, and was adamant about being traded. Which, was extremely fortunate for the Eagles. I had no idea why they wanted to keep him, but his trade demands saved them from themselves. Now, the Eagles look like one of the better teams in the NFL, and Wentz looks like a career journeyman.

[Dweedlebug]

3 hours ago, vaff said:

To answer your first question: several injuries and a refusal to learn and adapt.

He was rightfully benched. I don’t understand how anyone can disagree with that. He was absolutely horrendous that season. And then Hurts came in and gave the team some life. Still, the Eagles clearly planned to make Wentz the starter again in 2021. But he couldn’t handle the fact that he got benched for his poor play, and was adamant about being traded. Which, was extremely fortunate for the Eagles. I had no idea why they wanted to keep him, but his trade demands saved them from themselves. Now, the Eagles look like one of the better teams in the NFL, and Wentz looks like a career journeyman.

To be fair, Hurts' stats from those games are almost identical to Wentz's that season.  I mean there's only so much anyone could have done behind an entire oline of 2nd stringers (aside from the center) and 2nd and 3rd stringers at almost every skill position.  The QB play that year would have been dreadful no matter who was back there.

[vaff]

42 minutes ago, Dweedlebug said:

To be fair, Hurts' stats from those games are almost identical to Wentz's that season.  I mean there's only so much anyone could have done behind an entire oline of 2nd stringers (aside from the center) and 2nd and 3rd stringers at almost every skill position.  The QB play that year would have been dreadful no matter who was back there.

For the first 2.5 games against Green Bay, New Orleans, and Arizona, he definitely gave the team a spark. We beat New Orleans, who were good that year, when he ran for over 100 yards. Then he went toe-to-toe with Kyler Murray in Arizona.

There were only two games after that. In Dallas, where he didn’t play that well. And then home vs Washington, where we literally tried to lose, and Nate Sudfeld came on to play the 4th quarter.

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, vaff said:

To answer your first question: several injuries and a refusal to learn and adapt.

He was rightfully benched. I don’t understand how anyone can disagree with that. He was absolutely horrendous that season. And then Hurts came in and gave the team some life. Still, the Eagles clearly planned to make Wentz the starter again in 2021. But he couldn’t handle the fact that he got benched for his poor play, and was adamant about being traded. Which, was extremely fortunate for the Eagles. I had no idea why they wanted to keep him, but his trade demands saved them from themselves. Now, the Eagles look like one of the better teams in the NFL, and Wentz looks like a career journeyman.

 

What exactly did Wentz refuse to learn or adapt to? Doug made the decision in week 1 to keep his foot on the throttle with a 17 point lead and that backfired because the O-line was a mess. In week 2, we played a conservative game plan where Wentz got rid of the ball quicker and only took what was there. He wasn't sacked at all and we still lost. Doug decided not to use that approach in the following weeks. Wentz ran the offense Doug wanted. Things got to the point where the Eagles needed some of their stars to step up and that never happened. Everybody was playing desperate football and that leads to mistakes. 

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again here. In the game vs the packers, when they brought Hurts in to replace Wentz, the Eagles adjusted to their up-tempo offense which had been their go-to adjustment for bringing "life" to a struggling offense. 

I disagree with the notion that they "clearly planned" to start Wentz in 2021. They had a financial obligation to Wentz, but that is all. From the moment they made the decision to replace Wentz in 2020, the Eagles were in full trade mode with Wentz for 2021 and any indication that they wanted him to stick around was a smoke screen and damage control attempting to up his value on the trade market. Had Hurts truly finished the season with better play than Wentz, the Eagles could have created the illusion that Wentz was expendable. Unfortunately, IMO, they botched the entire situation. 

Yes Wentz played very poorly that season. But he wasn't the only one. Singling him out was fruitless. 

Thankfully, Hurts has become the better QB. 

[Infam]

23 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think he ever turned his back on Philadelphia. I think he lost faith in those within the organization that showed no faith in him. When he was benched, the team was still very much in position to win the division. Yet, they never gave him one chance to redeem himself after the so-called benching. He never said an ill word about teammates, fans, the city, etc...

I'm not sure why I'm supposed to hate him now as a person. 

He had opportunity for way too long and should‘ve been benched weeks earlier.

He‘s been given every opportunity and then some and performed horrid.

He even admitted (to his credit) he could‘ve been a better teammate.