brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Infam said: He had opportunity for way too long and should‘ve been benched weeks earlier. He‘s been given every opportunity and then some and performed horrid. He even admitted (to his credit) he could‘ve been a better teammate. If he had been the only one playing poorly, I wouldn't have had an issue with benching him. 2020 was a bad year for the entire team and singling one player out was not a good call and it didn't change anything either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Dweedlebug said: To be fair, Hurts' stats from those games are almost identical to Wentz's that season. I mean there's only so much anyone could have done behind an entire oline of 2nd stringers (aside from the center) and 2nd and 3rd stringers at almost every skill position. The QB play that year would have been dreadful no matter who was back there. Stats maybe. But it‘s hard to ignore that whenever Wentz got replaced by anyone our team looked invigorated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, brkmsn said: If he had been the only one playing poorly, I wouldn't have had an issue with benching him. 2020 was a bad year for the entire team and singling one player out was not a good call and it didn't change anything either. It changed a lot. They played with vigor. Hurts got his first experiences and went into the offseason with them. It was long overdue. Watching him play that year was a chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Infam said: Stats maybe. But it‘s hard to ignore that whenever Wentz got replaced by anyone our team looked invigorated. Do you have an example? I mean, that team had every opportunity to get the division in December and fell flat in disappointing fashion. As I said, nothing changed that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, brkmsn said: Do you have an example? I mean, that team had every opportunity to get the division in December and fell flat in disappointing fashion. As I said, nothing changed that year. The team was bad, but beating the Saints made the team look like they had a spark. They were in the Arizona game for the most part and lost to a much better team. 2020 Wentz would have lost both games and it wouldn’t have been close at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MF POON Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 The entire team stunk, but I just remember getting tired of seeing him doing the same old stupid things. Throwing INTs, holding the ball too long, taking unnecessary sacks, and fumbling. I just remember thinking he isn't even trying to improve at this point, so just sit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac+djaxallday Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 hours ago, brkmsn said: If he had been the only one playing poorly, I wouldn't have had an issue with benching him. 2020 was a bad year for the entire team and singling one player out was not a good call and it didn't change anything either. The point isn't that 2020 Hurts was better than 2020 Wentz (though honestly, he probably was based on his mobility alone). The point was to get a young guy some reps in a lost season once it had become clear Wentz wasn't the guy. It would have been the right move regardless of whether Hurts panned out. Fortunately, it seems like he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 On 9/25/2022 at 1:07 PM, EagleJoe8 said: Come on Hurts. Give me another week where I can't say anything bad about you. I’ll just take a full season of that to go with the playoffs thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaff Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 7 hours ago, brkmsn said: What exactly did Wentz refuse to learn or adapt to? Doug made the decision in week 1 to keep his foot on the throttle with a 17 point lead and that backfired because the O-line was a mess. In week 2, we played a conservative game plan where Wentz got rid of the ball quicker and only took what was there. He wasn't sacked at all and we still lost. Doug decided not to use that approach in the following weeks. Wentz ran the offense Doug wanted. Things got to the point where the Eagles needed some of their stars to step up and that never happened. Everybody was playing desperate football and that leads to mistakes. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again here. In the game vs the packers, when they brought Hurts in to replace Wentz, the Eagles adjusted to their up-tempo offense which had been their go-to adjustment for bringing "life" to a struggling offense. I disagree with the notion that they "clearly planned" to start Wentz in 2021. They had a financial obligation to Wentz, but that is all. From the moment they made the decision to replace Wentz in 2020, the Eagles were in full trade mode with Wentz for 2021 and any indication that they wanted him to stick around was a smoke screen and damage control attempting to up his value on the trade market. Had Hurts truly finished the season with better play than Wentz, the Eagles could have created the illusion that Wentz was expendable. Unfortunately, IMO, they botched the entire situation. Yes Wentz played very poorly that season. But he wasn't the only one. Singling him out was fruitless. Thankfully, Hurts has become the better QB. I don’t have the energy currently to read and respond to all of this. So I’ll just answer the opening sentence. He refuses to adapt his style of play, and he refuses to take to coaching. We see time and time again him hold onto the ball for an eternity, and then either get sacked (often because of him backing himself into the pressure, and often resulting in fumbles), or force a ridiculous throw, — even left handed sometimes. And because of his refusal to take to coaching he still has the same mechanical flaws he’s always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said: The team was bad, but beating the Saints made the team look like they had a spark. They were in the Arizona game for the most part and lost to a much better team. 2020 Wentz would have lost both games and it wouldn’t have been close at any point. There's really no way to know for sure. Wentz played much better in December the year before. We were also getting healthier and the O-line was playing better late in 2020 than in the beginning. 1 hour ago, jmac+djaxallday said: The point isn't that 2020 Hurts was better than 2020 Wentz (though honestly, he probably was based on his mobility alone). The point was to get a young guy some reps in a lost season once it had become clear Wentz wasn't the guy. It would have been the right move regardless of whether Hurts panned out. Fortunately, it seems like he has. If the decision was to move on from Wentz at that point, then I agree. But if they were considering Wentz possibly being the starter in 2021, then they completely botched the entire situation. As things stand today, I am not unhappy. There are a lot of things I like about Hurts. I'm not sure he wouldn't be where he's at currently even if he never replaced Wentz as a rookie. Hurts needed time to develop. He puts in the work. I don't think being the #2 QB would have changed the work he puts in to improve as a player. 52 minutes ago, vaff said: I don’t have the energy currently to read and respond to all of this. So I’ll just answer the opening sentence. He refuses to adapt his style of play, and he refuses to take to coaching. We see time and time again him hold onto the ball for an eternity, and then either get sacked (often because of him backing himself into the pressure, and often resulting in fumbles), or force a ridiculous throw, — even left handed sometimes. And because of his refusal to take to coaching he still has the same mechanical flaws he’s always had. How do you know what coaching he was getting? Maybe he doesn't listen to social media pseudo-coaches. I've never heard one of his real coaches claim he was problematic to coach. Wentz certainly has his flaws and they may prevent him from ever being what people thought he would become based on 2017. At this point, it looks like Wentz is a Jay Cutler type starter. He can make some amazing plays and surround them with some horrible decisions. There will probably always be a team ready to hand him the reigns for a season and hope for the best. Hurts, on the other hand, keeps getting better and improving in new areas making him harder to defend. I believe we have the right guy right now. But back to the original point, I personally don't think Wentz "turned his back on Philadelphia." I don't have any spite for his reaction to what went down. He ran the scout team in practice and kept his mouth shut about how he was obviously feeling. Everyday on the field, Wentz gave 100% effort as an Eagle. There is no reason for me to hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, brkmsn said: There's really no way to know for sure. Wentz played much better in December the year before. We were also getting healthier and the O-line was playing better late in 2020 than in the beginning. Wentz played well against the likes of a bad Washington and Giants team. Teams that checked out and hoping to lose for better draft positions. He beat no team of value in that run. The last time he played the Saints he and the Eagles got embarrassed. Who was the last team with a winning record did the Eagles beat with Wentz as their quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said: Wentz played well against the likes of a bad Washington and Giants team. Teams that checked out and hoping to lose for better draft positions. He beat no team of value in that run. The last time he played the Saints he and the Eagles got embarrassed. Who was the last team with a winning record did the Eagles beat with Wentz as their quarterback? At the end of 2020, those were the same teams we needed to beat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, brkmsn said: At the end of 2020, those were the same teams we needed to beat The combined records of the last five teams the Eagles played in 2019 24-56. The combined records of the last five teams the Eagles played in 2020 46-34. In 2019 the Eagles played 4 NFC East teams to win the division. None of them had a winning record. In 2020 the Eagles played two of their final games against NFC East opponents both with losing records. How do you view any of this as the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said: The combined records of the last five teams the Eagles played in 2019 24-56. The combined records of the last five teams the Eagles played in 2020 46-34. In 2019 the Eagles played 4 NFC East teams to win the division. None of them had a winning record. In 2020 the Eagles played two of their final games against NFC East opponents both with losing records. How do you view any of this as the same? All we ended up needing to do to win the division was beat dallas and then washington. Neither team had a winning record in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, brkmsn said: All we ended up needing to do to win the division was beat dallas and then washington. Neither team had a winning record in 2020. Even the divisional opponents in 2020 were better than the teams in 2019. By the washington game in 2020 I’m pretty sure the Eagles we’re eliminated from the playoffs. On top of that the 2019 team never had to face a real obstacle for over a month. These situations aren’t the same at all. Everything about the 2020 final month was far more difficult than 2019 And no Carson wasn’t beating any of those teams in 2020. The Saints made it clear that they didn’t prepare for Jalen that season. The Eagles that season under Carson beat no team with a winning record. They only beat the Giants that year because they kept shooting themselves in the foot. Carson has beaten Dak head to head like once in their careers. He already lost once to Washington. The last time Wentz beat a team with a winning record was the Bills in October of 2019. There was no way for sure we could say Wentz wouldn’t have won these games, but statistically it was highly unlikely and the Eagles aren’t in a position to make the playoffs if they lose to the Saints. Tell me when was the last time Carson beat the Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said: Even the divisional opponents in 2020 were better than the teams in 2019. By the washington game in 2020 I’m pretty sure the Eagles we’re eliminated from the playoffs. On top of that the 2019 team never had to face a real obstacle for over a month. These situations aren’t the same at all. Everything about the 2020 final month was far more difficult than 2019 And no Carson wasn’t beating any of those teams in 2020. The Saints made it clear that they didn’t prepare for Jalen that season. The Eagles that season under Carson beat no team with a winning record. They only beat the Giants that year because they kept shooting themselves in the foot. Carson has beaten Dak head to head like once in their careers. He already lost once to Washington. The last time Wentz beat a team with a winning record was the Bills in October of 2019. There was no way for sure we could say Wentz wouldn’t have won these games, but statistically it was highly unlikely and the Eagles aren’t in a position to make the playoffs if they lose to the Saints. Tell me when was the last time Carson beat the Saints? When was the last time Wentz (as an Eagle) played them while Brees was out? Wentz was capable of playing better than he played in most of 2020. Hurts made some plays in that game with his legs that Wentz wouldn't have made. But nobody knows what might have been or could have been. Those "absolutes" that you believe are just your own opinions. And yes, we needed to beat dallas first and then washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, brkmsn said: When was the last time Wentz (as an Eagle) played them while Brees was out? Wentz was capable of playing better than he played in most of 2020. Hurts made some plays in that game with his legs that Wentz wouldn't have made. But nobody knows what might have been or could have been. Those "absolutes" that you believe are just your own opinions. And yes, we needed to beat dallas first and then washington. Fair enough. Wentz has not played the Saints without Brees. I mean he did spend the four games prior to that moment scoring 17 or less each game, but I’m sure he lights up the number one defense at that moment. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said: Fair enough. Wentz has not played the Saints without Brees. I mean he did spend the four games prior to that moment scoring 17 or less each game, but I’m sure he lights up the number one defense at that moment. 🙄 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 29 minutes ago, brkmsn said: 🤷♂️ Look bud they didn’t bench Wentz off the whim of one game. They did it because for a month of football he was getting progressive worse. In the Packers game he stopped looking downfield and was staring at the rush. He was a broken player by that point. He wasn’t beating the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Do we have to deal with this every time they play the commanders now? I like to poke fun at Wentz too but, to relive all those beaten to death arguments almost 3 years later is exhausting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweedlebug Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 23 hours ago, MF POON said: The entire team stunk, but I just remember getting tired of seeing him doing the same old stupid things. Throwing INTs, holding the ball too long, taking unnecessary sacks, and fumbling. I just remember thinking he isn't even trying to improve at this point, so just sit him. This is often what happens with a new QB though. There is a spark because the other teams do not have any film on the new QB and do not yet know their tendencies, so they often do ok for the first game or two. Which is exactly what happened with the saints, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonblood Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Wentz is no longer a starting QB in this league. He'll be a bench QB the rest of his career. That will start soon- probably this year. What a really weird career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 14 minutes ago, Talonblood said: Wentz is no longer a starting QB in this league. He'll be a bench QB the rest of his career. That will start soon- probably this year. What a really weird career. Until there are 32 QBs better, there will always be a team somewhere for him to start. Every year we have 5-6 new teams in a transition mode. If it wasn’t for Washington, he could have gone to Seattle, to Houston, to Pittsburgh, to Carolina, to Atlanta, maybe even the Giants. There will always be somewhere for him as long as he’s in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonblood Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 18 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: Until there are 32 QBs better, there will always be a team somewhere for him to start. Every year we have 5-6 new teams in a transition mode. If it wasn’t for Washington, he could have gone to Seattle, to Houston, to Pittsburgh, to Carolina, to Atlanta, maybe even the Giants. There will always be somewhere for him as long as he’s in the league. Yeah, wanted as a backup QB. Clearly, he has been given chances to prove himself. It ends in Washington. He will be wanted as a backup, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerolithe_Lion Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, Talonblood said: Yeah, wanted as a backup QB. Clearly, he has been given chances to prove himself. It ends in Washington. He will be wanted as a backup, though. I think FitzPatrick is a good parallel. Wentz has big robust passing games occasionally, and as long as he continues to do that once every 2-3 games then someone will pay him to warm the seat for a year until the rookie is ready; then new team rinse and repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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