28 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Yes but if Jones had the o line and receiving weapons Hurts has, perhaps his deep throws improve significantly? 
 

Again, the discussion originated from a poster claiming Jones was bad. I merely offer that he in fact is not bad at all, and improved significantly this year under a good coach who had also improved his previous QB.

Well, it was a discussion based on statistics so to add a hypothetical, "if he had a better Oline" really moves the goal posts. I was just pointing out that the stats being used to support the position that they are similar are misleading, as stats often are. I gave an example of how dis-aggregating a gross metric like completion percentage by including yardage metrics is a better analysis.  If that's not what you were saying, then sorry. There is no argument that Jones isn't a bad QB. He is a mediocre QB. If not, the Giants would have signed him, one would think.

Speaking of pressure, I wonder if finally getting the SB monkey off their backs will affect any future Eagles teams at all in the playoffs. That doesn't mean they won't feel the normal nerves/excitement you get for any playoff game, but I do feel the weight of trying to be the first team to win it all did play a factor on the Eagles teams past. And every time they got close and couldn't get it done, it continued to mount. In every NFCCG every time the opponent did something good, that place started to get tight and that atmosphere probably permeated down to the field.

Now that it's over and done with, I wonder if that plays a factor at all in the players minds. That they aren't trying to be the firsts anymore.

My guess is it has very minimal impact, but I don't think it's a zero either.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

True, and I think that's why that Panthers loss hurt so much. We lost to Jake F'in Delhomme, McNabb got hurt on a late hit by Witherspoon (i think?), and Ricky Manning their DBs mugged our WRs all game long. Still bitter about it.

That loss is the one for me. Still to this day. It destroyed me lol. I still and always will have a bit of anger towards the Panthers, just like I will with the Patriots. Living in NC doesnt help and i'll always give Panthers fans **** when I can lol

5 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

Right but the original topic was about Hurts having a Cam/Lamar type career. 1 year wonders. We all agree here we dont want Hurts to be a 1 year wonder so why should we want him to have a career like Cam or Lamar? Thats what we were saying.

But who exactly is saying they want him to have a career like Cam or Lamar? I haven't seen that, I just said I'll gladly take a Super Bowl appearance if Hurts is good enough to give us that at least. The rest of the team is playing well enough that we just might steal one even if he's not playing lights out football due to his shoulder.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And with cap and roster issues on the horizon ( I know some of you don't see that how I see it ) this will be the best team Hurts has around him, so this will be his best shot to win a title.

True, but again, it doesn't mean the end result will be meaningless. There's a wide gap between "this is our best chance" and "it's all meaningless if we don't win it all".

14 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You think Lurie fired Reid because of the fans ??

I absolutely believe he caved to the pressure that was becoming unbearable. We had one losing season in a row at the time he was fired. In fact during his end-of-season press conference the year before, Lurie went out of his way to explain to the fans why he was not firing him. I remember him referencing the Ravens in some capacity and using that to justify keeping Reid...as if he needed to justify retaining a future Hall of Fame coach in the first place. He was 100% conscious of what the fans were screaming. A year later and a losing season and he caved. 

4 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

Well, it was a discussion based on statistics so to add a hypothetical, "if he had a better Oline" really moves the goal posts. I was just pointing out that the stats being used to support the position that they are similar are misleading, as stats often are. I gave an example of how dis-aggregating a gross metric like completion percentage by including yardage metrics is a better analysis.  If that's not what you were saying, then sorry. There is no argument that Jones isn't a bad QB. He is a mediocre QB. If not, the Giants would have signed him, one would think.

I disagree with this. He improved bigly this year, limited turnovers, and just put up a great performance in his first playoff game. All with a very limited supporting cast.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

But who exactly is saying they want him to have a career like Cam or Lamar? I haven't seen that, I just said I'll gladly take a Super Bowl appearance if Hurts is good enough to give us that at least. The rest of the team is playing well enough that we just might steal one even if he's not playing lights out football due to his shoulder.

I had this discussion with some guy in the Hurts thread. 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

I disagree with this. He improved bigly this year, limited turnovers, and just put up a great performance in his first playoff game. All with a very limited supporting cast.

I think this might be the issue with poster(s) pointing out bias. If Hurts played that game I will hypothesize that it would not be talked about by you and the crew as a "great performance." It would be talked about as him running too much, taking too many hits, and not getting the ball down the field because of a noodle arm. Just an observation.

19 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Not for me, but probably only because the pressure on us was higher back then since we hadn't won a title yet.

But having lived long enough to watch us finally lift the Lombardi at least once, I think I'll be able to handle another NFCCG loss better should it happen again.

That is so absolutely true. SB52 changed everything. Oh, I want to win it all again. It’d be awesome. But it’d be different because it wouldn’t be erasing decades of agony. I legit thought I was going to live the rest of my life without experiencing it just one time. But I did. 

11 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

There is no argument that Jones isn't a bad QB.

He is top 10 in the NFL in completion percentage and QBR.  13th in QB rating.  

He is 5th in QB rushing yards and tied for 3rd in QB rushing TD's.

5 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

I had this discussion with some guy in the Hurts thread. 

Ah, I thought you were referring to someone here. I stay out of that thread for obvious reasons.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

True, and I think that's why that Panthers loss hurt so much. We lost to Jake F'in Delhomme, McNabb got hurt on a late hit by Witherspoon (i think?), and Ricky Manning their DBs mugged our WRs all game long. Still bitter about it.

I am more bitter about the Tampa loss to close out the Linc.  The Panthers loss was hard but I expected it.  The team, Banner and Reid predictably crapped the bed.  Reid stopped running the ball.  The Eagles had another subpar replacement for Trotter because they didn't want to pay his market value.  After 2002 didn't work out because they replaced him with the human fire hydrant, Levon Kirkland in 02, they had the human traffic cone, Mark Simoneau, at MLB in 03.  Who were the inadequate WRs in 02? PInkston, Thrash and Freeman.  The Eagles upgraded to Pinkston, Thrash and Mitchell in 03.  Also they did get mugged but they got mugged because they played like little old ladies.    

4 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

I think this might be the issue with poster(s) pointing out bias. If Hurts played that game I will hypothesize that it would not be talked about by you and the crew as a "great performance." It would be talked about as him running too much, taking too many hits, and not getting the ball down the field because of a noodle arm. Just an observation.

24/35 301 2 TDs, 0 Ints, 17 rushes for 78 yards and 31 points is something to complain about? The only issue id have is the number of runs

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I am more bitter about the Tampa loss to close out the Linc.  The Panthers loss was hard but I expected it.  The team, Banner and Reid predictably crapped the bed.  Reid stopped running the ball.  The Eagles had another subpar replacement for Trotter because they didn't want to pay his market value.  After 2002 didn't work out because they replaced him with the human fire hydrant, Levon Kirkland in 02, they had the human traffic cone, Mark Simoneau, at MLB in 03.  Who were the inadequate WRs in 02? PInkston, Thrash and Freeman.  The Eagles upgraded to Pinkston, Thrash and Mitchell in 03.  Also they did get mugged but they got mugged because they played like little old ladies.    

Yep. And in 03 our only explosive playmaker was hurt and not playing in the NFCCG. 4th and 26 was exciting but also kind of a fluke win to begin with.

11 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Speaking of pressure, I wonder if finally getting the SB monkey off their backs will affect any future Eagles teams at all in the playoffs. That doesn't mean they won't feel the normal nerves/excitement you get for any playoff game, but I do feel the weight of trying to be the first team to win it all did play a factor on the Eagles teams past. And every time they got close and couldn't get it done, it continued to mount. In every NFCCG every time the opponent did something good, that place started to get tight and that atmosphere probably permeated down to the field.

Now that it's over and done with, I wonder if that plays a factor at all in the players minds. That they aren't trying to be the firsts anymore.

My guess is it has very minimal impact, but I don't think it's a zero either.

Probably didn't help that we were arguably the best team in the league and still called an underdog

We're one of the best teams in the league when healthy but we also have a lot of talent now

3 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I absolutely believe he caved to the pressure that was becoming unbearable. We had one losing season in a row at the time he was fired. In fact during his end-of-season press conference the year before, Lurie went out of his way to explain to the fans why he was not firing him. I remember him referencing the Ravens in some capacity and using that to justify keeping Reid...as if he needed to justify retaining a future Hall of Fame coach in the first place. He was 100% conscious of what the fans were screaming. A year later and a losing season and he caved. 

I was very sorry to see Andy go but I think he needed a fresh start.

He did all he could do here, showed he had chops, I just don't think he had enough groceries.

Good for him. KC has embraced him (haha, no kidding) and Big Red looks good in Red.

Just wish we could have gotten over that hump in '04 for him. He deserved to get his First Title here...

 

11 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

That loss is the one for me. Still to this day. It destroyed me lol. I still and always will have a bit of anger towards the Panthers, just like I will with the Patriots. Living in NC doesnt help and i'll always give Panthers fans **** when I can lol

There are no Panthers fans in NC.  There are only college basketball fans that need something to watch before the season starts. 

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I am more bitter about the Tampa loss to close out the Linc.  The Panthers loss was hard but I expected it.  The team, Banner and Reid predictably crapped the bed.  Reid stopped running the ball.  The Eagles had another subpar replacement for Trotter because they didn't want to pay his market value.  After 2002 didn't work out because they replaced him with the human fire hydrant, Levon Kirkland in 02, they had the human traffic cone, Mark Simoneau, at MLB in 03.  Who were the inadequate WRs in 02? PInkston, Thrash and Freeman.  The Eagles upgraded to Pinkston, Thrash and Mitchell in 03.  Also they did get mugged but they got mugged because they played like little old ladies.    

I can still see Jurevicious cruising past Gardner (or was it Kirkland?) on that dig and picking up like 40 yards. Forever burned into my memory, like Williams and Barber picking off McNabb.

15 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

But who exactly is saying they want him to have a career like Cam or Lamar? 

That is what we were saying in the Hurts thread ( the supposed haters we are )

We want him to continue evolving as a passer, limit his rushing and not go down the same path.

Right now, we are on the exact career arc as Cam / Lamar, I prefer it go in a different direction, and that starts with less running and more passing.

5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

24/35 301 2 TDs, 0 Ints, 17 rushes for 78 yards and 31 points is something to complain about? The only issue id have is the number of runs

Compared to

23/43 258 1 TD, 2 Ints, 8 rushes for 39 yards and 15 points.

I think the playoff loss that hurt the most was when we lost to the Redskins in 1990 a few months after we had destroyed them in the Body Bag game. It was pretty much an accepted fact that Buddy Ryan needed to win a playoff game in order to save his job. But for the third year in a row, they lost their first game. I remember driving home from that game feeling absolutely devastated, fully realizing that the team was going to get worse, not better. Firing Buddy was not a solution that had legs. I was not wrong.

If we lose this week, I won’t feel that same way. I’ll still feel good about our future because Sirianni looks to me to be the real deal and I think Hurts probably is too. So it won’t seem as gloomy, even though it would definitely suck.

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Considering that most of the acrimony stems from one group defending Hurts and the other group relentlessly attacking him, i would argue that if one group has to go, it isn't the one you think it is. 

No one relentlessly attacks Hurts. 

36 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Not for me, but probably only because the pressure on us was higher back then since we hadn't won a title yet. In '02, we were on the cusp of greatness so my hopes for the following year were still high. In '08, it felt like we were playing with house money with that late run we went on, so while I still absolutely lost my mind, and took over a week for me to mentally adjust to that loss and begin to move on, it wasn't as tough as it was to get over the Panther's loss in '03. That one simply crushed me on many levels. I was gutted for a while. Same for the SB loss the following year. Dark times, indeed.

But having lived long enough to watch us finally lift the Lombardi at least once, I think I'll be able to handle another NFCCG loss better should it happen again.

Yeah, this wouldn’t be close to losing to the Bucs or Panthers. Those were depressing losses. 

45 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Not getting to a SB would be a bigger disappointment than 01, 02, 03 or 08

2002 is the biggest disappointment in franchise history. We could lose by 3 TDs to the Giants and I'd feel the same way.